SO 43DS - questions before buying

[udi500]

Hi
We (my wife and I) are looking to buy Sun Odyssey 43DS and would like to hear owners opinion of this boat.
We mainly looking to buy it in Europe.
Thanks
UD

[Zanshin]

I had an ex-charter 43DS and loved it.

What questions do you have?

[udi500]

One of my questions was about an ex charter boat- there are many of them with a good price tag, however who ever I speak to- advise me not to buy ex charter.
Would like to have your opinion and how old was the boat when you bought it if and did you bought it directly from the company?
Thanks

[Zanshin]

There are 3 main sets of arguments that sailors get into:

1. What type of Anchor is best
2. Mono or Multi hull
3. Ex-charter boat or not

Charter boats, particularly in the BVI where I bought mine, are worked very hard and not treated nicely by the charterers. They tend to have a lot of hours on the poor misused engines and a lot of cosmetic damage. The engines are serviced and checked regularly by the charter companies since they survive off having their boats up and running when guests arrive. So despite high hours, they will have had more maintenance done to them than the average private boat with low hours, and those diesels are designed for high hours.

Cosmetic damage can be repaired, and just getting all the junk and sand and dirt out of all the bilges and cracks improves the condition of the boats.

What is a problem is if there has been ground contact and some sort of structural damage. Chances of that happening or a wrapped prop and bent P-Strut are high. But that is what you ascertain before buying and then you get a good surveyor to make sure.

Taking all that into account the discounts offered on ex-charter boats are pretty good. In my case I went aboard 30 boats with camera and notebook and chose the best of the lot (a 43DS with a Fischer-Panda generator and air conditioning - because of that it was more expensive to charter and thus had fewer hours and damage than the others).

Phase-out from the charter company to the owner is very important, as that is the time when the charter company has to fix all of the problems and if the owner doesn't find the problem it might not get fixed.

Would I buy an ex-charter boat again? I'd answer that with a "yes". But I did buy my current boat brand new, because for once in my life I wanted a boat on which every dent, ding, scratch and other problem was my own fault and I couldn't blame "the previous owner" for anything.

Jeanneau 43 "Solitaire"

And I've got some manuals online, also for the 43DS available Select Jeanneau owner manuals and other documents

[alenka]

Hi UD,

The 43DS is an often overlooked boat because it does not have the sexy looks of the more modern Jeanneau's or it's successor the 42DS. You will however, find it hard to come across an owner that does not have good things to say about the model.

It is quick, even in light airs, easy to handle and offers loads of space for extended cruising; How many boats of this size offer two wardrobes in one cabin and an ensuite with separate walk-in shower.  The quality of the woodwork is also particularly good.

Are you aware that the charter boat layout is different to the owners version?  The aft cabin of the owners version not only offers that huge queen sized bed but storage bins either side.  They are great for clothes, bed linen and general storage.  The charter version does not have these.  Quite franky we would be lost without these but we do spend long periods aboard.

In Europe just be careful that the cheaper ex-charter versions are tax paid because the difference in cost between a tax paid owners version and a cheaper charter version that you have to pay another 20-23% VAT tax on top make the former not that much more expensive.

You also need to ask about the compression post and if it has had problems.  The 43DS is one of those models that can suffer from the wood at the base of the post getting wet and rotting.  Models prior to 2004 seem to affected most.  It should not be a deal stopper, the fix is quick but costs about €2,000. Many boats have already been modified.

This is our boat on passage from Brighton to Greece. Which was completed in less than a month.



Gad to offer comments on specific boats that catch your eye.

 

[MalcolmP]

Apr 5, 2020 18:52:54 GMT alenka said:

This is our boat on passage from Brighton to Greece. Which was completed in less than a month.

Great video, you didn't hang about

[zaphod]

Apr 5, 2020 18:52:54 GMT alenka said:

Hi UD,

The 43DS is an often overlooked boat because it does not have the sexy looks of the more modern Jeanneau's or it's successor the 42DS. You will however, find it hard to come across an owner that does not have good things to say about the model.

It is quick, even in light airs, easy to handle and offers loads of space for extended cruising; How many boats of this size offer two wardrobes in one cabin and an ensuite with separate walk-in shower.  The quality of the woodwork is also particularly good.

Are you aware that the charter boat layout is different to the owners version?  The aft cabin of the owners version not only offers that huge queen sized bed but storage bins either side.  They are great for clothes, bed linen and general storage.  The charter version does not have these.  Quite franky we would be lost without these but we do spend long periods aboard.

In Europe just be careful that the cheaper ex-charter versions are tax paid because the difference in cost between a tax paid owners version and a cheaper charter version that you have to pay another 20-23% VAT tax on top make the former not that much more expensive.

You also need to ask about the compression post and if it has had problems.  The 43DS is one of those models that can suffer from the wood at the base of the post getting wet and rotting.  Models prior to 2004 seem to affected most.  It should not be a deal stopper, the fix is quick but costs about €2,000. Many boats have already been modified.

This is our boat on passage from Brighton to Greece. Which was completed in less than a month.



Gad to offer comments on specific boats that catch your eye.

 

As DS models go I actually prefer the classic look of the 43 over the newer models. I really don't like the "cateye" windows on the newer models. Although the twin wheels on the new models is a nice feature.

[sailingsouth]

Hi UD

   You will absolutely love the 43DS!  A little background.  I'm an ASA instructor and have been teaching for 25 years as a side job/hobby.  My real job I'm an Aircraft Maintenance Technician with the worlds largest airline.  Over the last 30 years I've charter, delivered or sailed on hundreds of different boats both mono hulls an cats.  When the time came for me to actually start looking at a cruising boat to sail off into the wild blue yonder I had a few requirements for said boat, my budget was $150K max.  1. An anchor locker with hatch up on the bow (a lot of older cruising boats in my budget didn't have said hatch). 2. A swim platform to get in and out of the water.  3. A separate shower stall.  4. A walk around bed, a lot of cruising boats either have a pullman style or you had to crawl into bed from the foot of the bed.

   The first time I walked on the 43DS, I loved it.  It met all my requirements and is built very strong!  Compare the 43DS to a similar size Beneteau, Hunter, Catalina, Hans, Dufour, other Jeanneau models.  Almost everything on the 43DS is a tad bit larger.  The deck cleats, hand rails, winches, traveler, fair leads, standing rigging etc. etc.  even the Plexiglas shower door was thicker then other boats.  This boat has a ton of storage too.  The engine access is fantastic. 

  With all this being said the 43DS does have some flaws that if not checked could and will cost you a few thousand unexpected dollars to fix.  1. And its a biggie!  Check the step under the compression post.  Peel up the floor boards around the compression post and take a good look where it its stepped to the bottom of the boat.  If it looks like it is sunk in at all this is a problem.  What Jeanneau did under the post to support the post and mast was silly!  They basically sandwiched plywood together then glassed that area in when they made the hull.  Some boats (not the one I had) had water seep into this section and the wood rotted thereby the weight of the mast collapsing a bit.  You will be able to tell right away if the wood is rotted and this part of the step has failed.  There is a repair for this but it will take a lot of work!  2.  Jeanneau made two different keels for the 43DS, a shoal draft and deep draft.  Some owners have reported excessive corrosion on the keel bolts and had to pull the keel and replace the bolts.  Take a good look at them.  They are all accessible by simply lifting up the floor boards.  3.  That d**n stainless steel water lock Jeanneau installed under and to the port side of the engine.  Several owners (including mine) developed a leak in it.  It is a pain in the rear to remove and replace and is very expensive!  When mine started to leak, I by passed it and installed a Vetus water lock under the aft cabin bed.  It worked well and I never had a problem after.  4.  Check the steering cables!  Mine broke one day while sailing close hulled in 10-15kts wind....  Thankfully I was only out for a day sail and pretty close to my marina. 


   I am from the old school sailor type who disliked the in mast roller furling sail! But after owning and sailing this boat for 4 years I'd never go back.  It was so easy and convenient to reef and or roll up and preformed well once I figured out how to use it.  I replaced both the jib and main and along with a flex O fold folding prop I could easily cruise at 7 to 8 knots close reaching to beam reaching in 15 to 20 knots of wind.

   Everyone who came on the boat loved it, everyone complimented me on it and everyone who had the opportunity to sail with me on her loved the performance and handling.

   Unfortunately I lost her in the British Virgin Islands during Hurricane Irma:-(.  If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me at [e-mail]


Cap'n Scott 

[mpcsail]

i have purchased 2 charter boats in the past, a 45 and a 53. What i have found is that they can be a good deal if you don’t mind putting in the elbow grease yourself and fixing a lot of little things. For instance the battery cables will need replacement at some point just not maybe this season. The electronics work but just worn or faded.Have the best surveyor you can find as they will fix everything that is wrong just not worn out items. it really allows you to get into a nice boat at a reasonable price but plan on have a good budget for replacements in the short term.

[udi500]

Thank you very much - everybody who took the time to answer me.
All your comments/advice are very helpful and I do appreciate it a lot.
My main concern was with parts which:

    A. Deteriorate over time - as  sailingsouth mentioned.

    B. Are difficult to spot such as grounding effect on the rudder or kill. 

    C. Ex charter - I think Zanshin summarized it exactly as it is.

[alenka]

Enjoy your search.

I travelled twice to Italy and twice to Mallorca and still bought in Brighton UK.

To save on journeys to look at boats that have no resemblance to their brokerage pictures...

Ask the seller to email you high quality, recent, photos that can be looked at in close detail.  Many brokers show pics that are years old and the boats can sometimes look very different. Digital photos make most boats look very good - Much better than in the flesh.  

Do not assume that equipment seen in the pictures is still on board.  One boat on my list featured electric winches, AC and Genset in the photos. All items had been removed and transferred onto the owners new boat.

Never assume that a listing is still available.  18 months after purchasing my boat was still on display in the brokers window!!!  I also came across pictures of my boats' interior featured in another boats' ad.

Lastly, just be aware that Italian Brokers charge their fees to the buyer not the seller. This can add a sizeable chunk to the cost.  On onee boat I agreed an all inclusive offer, only for them to try and exploit it and still add on their charges. I walked away.

[udi500]

Per the 4 cabins version - I saw on the boats drawing - the wall separating the rear cabins can be easily removed- will it give the “owner version” of the aft. cabin?

[reiner]

Hi,
I have this version. It will give you a very big bed with a width over 3m. The disadvantage is that you dont have the lockers
on the side. I always thinking to build them in, but the actual compromise are 2  cushioned big folding boxes on the sides
and 2 big additional mattress toppers which make the sleeping very comfortable.

[alenka]

Apr 10, 2020 19:45:46 GMT udi500 said:

Per the 4 cabins version - I saw on the boats drawing - the wall separating the rear cabins can be easily removed- will it give the “owner version” of the aft. cabin?

Afraid not.  

As already pointed out it is a different shape and size of the mattresses. You do not need to use infills with the owners version and those storage bins would require a level of expertise in woodworking to recreate.  Some owners version did come with the divide to make the cabin into two.  This is in sections. These store in a well under the berths.

I have asked via this forum if anybody has this divider and would be prepared to send details so that I could recreate it in foam board - but no offers so far!

Incidentally, if you did divide an owners version don't expect two large doubles, more large singles.

I took a quick look at what was currently on the market and it does not appear to be many 43DS for sale in the EU.  The American (owners/export) version tended to have a different level of interior to a higher spec.... Front opening stainless fridge, folding salon table with very nice detailing, etc.  

I tried to buy the table which I believe cost of several thousand pounds but Jeanneau no longer hold spares; and I doubt I could get a yard to retrofit the fridge.  You will have no doubt noted that the 43DS in the USA is generally way more expensive.  I am surprised our American cousins are not over here buying up owners versions at, for them, a knock down price.  

Personally, I think the best layout as a family boat is the three cabin version with two cabins up the front and one aft with a proper bed and wardrobes.  My wife prefers just the two cabin version so she can hog the vanity unit up front and take as long as she likes to get ready!!  This layout makes it tricky when I have chums onboard as they don't want to share a Vee berth and someone ends up sleeping in the saloon.

Good Luck in your search.  If I ever get out to my boat this year I will see if any 43DS are up for sale.  Boats in Cleopatra (Greece) tend to sell quickly and sometimes don't even make it onto the internet.

[zaphod]

Apr 11, 2020 8:42:27 GMT alenka said:

Apr 10, 2020 19:45:46 GMT udi500 said:

Per the 4 cabins version - I saw on the boats drawing - the wall separating the rear cabins can be easily removed- will it give the “owner version” of the aft. cabin?

Afraid not.  

As already pointed out it is a different shape and size of the mattresses. You do not need to use infills with the owners version and those storage bins would require a level of expertise in woodworking to recreate.  Some owners version did come with the divide to make the cabin into two.  This is in sections. These store in a well under the berths.

I have asked via this forum if anybody has this divider and would be prepared to send details so that I could recreate it in foam board - but no offers so far!

Incidentally, if you did divide an owners version don't expect two large doubles, more large singles.

I took a quick look at what was currently on the market and it does not appear to be many 43DS for sale in the EU.  The American (owners/export) version tended to have a different level of interior to a higher spec.... Front opening stainless fridge, folding salon table with very nice detailing, etc.  

I tried to buy the table which I believe cost of several thousand pounds but Jeanneau no longer hold spares; and I doubt I could get a yard to retrofit the fridge.  You will have no doubt noted that the 43DS in the USA is generally way more expensive.  I am surprised our American cousins are not over here buying up owners versions at, for them, a knock down price.  

Personally, I think the best layout as a family boat is the three cabin version with two cabins up the front and one aft with a proper bed and wardrobes.  My wife prefers just the two cabin version so she can hog the vanity unit up front and take as long as she likes to get ready!!  This layout makes it tricky when I have chums onboard as they don't want to share a Vee berth and someone ends up sleeping in the saloon.

Good Luck in your search.  If I ever get out to my boat this year I will see if any 43DS are up for sale.  Boats in Cleopatra (Greece) tend to sell quickly and sometimes don't even make it onto the internet.

I have found that Jeanneau prices in general are much higher in North America vs Europe. Part of that, I suspect, is the number of ex charters coming out of the Med, but whatever the reason, bringing a boat across the Atlantic, and in my case across to the west coast as well, just wasn't feasible, even if you ignore the cost of flying over there to shop for boats. Then you also have the added expense of converting the shore power systems to 115v etc.

[alenka]

You are quite right Zaphod it is not for the feint hearted.

Many Jeanneaus cross the Atlantic so that's not a problem, but getting through the canal or across land to the west coast adds a lot of extra effort.  

Do you know if there is an import tax on self imported boats?

With regards to the electrics I do wonder how European boats doing the Atlantic circuit cope with the 115v system. Obviously they don't all do a re-wire. There must be a simple solution. Any comments from those that have done it??

For anyone contemplating buying in the USA and bringing it to Europe the big stopper is the CE certification. The law won't let you sell a boat on in the EU that does not have a CE marking and applying for a mark is very difficult.  I tried to buy a Hunter Legend 45 DS and sail it across but it didn't comply.

Incidentally, average cost of an ex-charter 43DS in the EU is around £73k (some as cheap as £65k) The average cost of a 43DS in the USA seems to be around £111k.  Anyone looking for a project/adventure I guess could be tempted.  The cheapest 43DS on the market is an ex-charter, hurricane wreck in the BVI's which might go for less than £20K, but it is a wreck by any standards.

[MalcolmP]

Apr 12, 2020 8:51:37 GMT alenka said:

With regards to the electrics I do wonder how European boats doing the Atlantic circuit cope with the 115v system. Obviously they don't all do a re-wire. There must be a simple solution. Any comments from those that have done it??

This issue has been debated before, but can't find the quote now (maybe on FB group) , and it certainly should be checked with Jeanneau, but I am 90% sure that Jeanneau have stated that the wiring for 240v and 110v built either in USA or EU is sized sufficiently to take the extra current, at least on newer boats

[MalcolmP]

Apr 11, 2020 8:42:27 GMT alenka said:

Apr 10, 2020 19:45:46 GMT udi500 said:

Per the 4 cabins version - I saw on the boats drawing - the wall separating the rear cabins can be easily removed- will it give the “owner version” of the aft. cabin?

Afraid not.  

As already pointed out it is a different shape and size of the mattresses. You do not need to use infills with the owners version and those storage bins would require a level of expertise in woodworking to recreate.  Some owners version did come with the divide to make the cabin into two.  This is in sections. These store in a well under the berths.

I have asked via this forum if anybody has this divider and would be prepared to send details so that I could recreate it in foam board - but no offers so far!

There is an old thread (2013) here: jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2494/convertible-stern-cabins that shows the conversion. In their blog which is still active, they mention that they indeed did make templates for someone... guess it is still just possible they exist somewhere.

[zaphod]

Apr 12, 2020 8:51:37 GMT alenka said:

You are quite right Zaphod it is not for the feint hearted.

Many Jeanneaus cross the Atlantic so that's not a problem, but getting through the canal or across land to the west coast adds a lot of extra effort.  

Do you know if there is an import tax on self imported boats

Certainly for the right boat it can be shipped by freighter and rail/truck, but of course that adds significant cost.

In Canada it doesn't matter how you import a boat you must pay sales tax to the jurisdiction you are importing it to. In addition, you may have to pay import duties depending on whether we have a trade deal with the country of origin.

Further complicating things when we bought our boat was Donald Trump. Normally we have free trade with the USA, but since Trump decided to slap huge punitive tariffs on Canadian steel, our government retaliated with tariffs that target specific products from the USA, and one of the things targeted was yachts. The result was that even though there we several boats just across the border that were cheaper, there would have been additional tariffs of 10% on them.

At the end of the day we paid top dollar for a local boat, but it is also far nicer than the ones in the USA anyway.

[MalcolmP]

Apr 6, 2020 14:37:10 GMT sailingsouth said:

......... 3.  That d**n stainless steel water lock Jeanneau installed under and to the port side of the engine.  Several owners (including mine) developed a leak in it.  It is a pain in the rear to remove and replace and is very expensive!  When mine started to leak, I by passed it and installed a Vetus water lock under the aft cabin bed.  It worked well and I never had a problem after. .........

Cap'n Scott 

As Cap'n Scott says the OEM muffler can be an issue. There is a detailed thread here:

jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2842/replacing-water-muffler-so43ds

[alenka]

Apr 12, 2020 13:47:57 GMT MalcolmP said:

Apr 11, 2020 8:42:27 GMT alenka said:

Afraid not.  

As already pointed out it is a different shape and size of the mattresses. You do not need to use infills with the owners version and those storage bins would require a level of expertise in woodworking to recreate.  Some owners version did come with the divide to make the cabin into two.  This is in sections. These store in a well under the berths.

I have asked via this forum if anybody has this divider and would be prepared to send details so that I could recreate it in foam board - but no offers so far!

There is an old thread (2013) here: jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2494/convertible-stern-cabins that shows the conversion. In their blog which is still active, they mention that they indeed did make templates for someone... guess it is still just possible they exist somewhere.

Rob & Karen were a great source of information when I was on the hunt for a 43DS.  They sold their 43DS in Italy and went back to Australia where they cruise on an immaculate Whitby motor sailor.
Alas I still cannot some up with drawings for the dividers although it is mentioned in that thread that they are shown in the owners manual - I have never found this section.  

Does anyone know if that chapter is on-line anywhere?

[mikebnz]

And I ended up buying Rob and Karen’s DS43 in Auckland. It now lives in Wellington.

I did offer to measure up the dividers a while ago, it’s been on my list to do but thanks to lockdown it will have to stay on the list for a while yet...

[mikebnz]

The section in the manual is the part at the end of book one and start of book two. (The manual comes in two PDFs).

There’s no drawings of them, but photos showing how to install them.

[Zanshin]

In case you want a manual for 43DS in English or French, I have them on my Select Jeanneau Manuals

[alenka]

Apr 14, 2020 6:16:57 GMT mikebnz said:

And I ended up buying Rob and Karen’s DS43 in Auckland. It now lives in Wellington.

I did offer to measure up the dividers a while ago, it’s been on my list to do but thanks to lockdown it will have to stay on the list for a while yet...

Hi Mike,

When this is all over if you could find the time to measure up the panels (with maybe a quick sketch) I will gladly draw them up on the computer and put them onto the forum for all and sundry.  No rush... Just heard that British Airways have cancelled my flight to Greece so trying to find an alternative - If anyone is flying!