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Post by hoppy on Apr 29, 2017 8:50:08 GMT
I think it's time take up golf.... We did 2 short races today. In the first race we had a DNF as we were so far behind and this is the 2nd race Based on the handicap, we should have been the 2nd fastest boat in the fleet LOL Excuses.... Were only 2 onboard Lots of growth on the hull, needs a haul out and new antifouling 1st race was light wind (only have a no.2) Only cruising boat. Only boat with teak decks Only boat with 2 dacron sails Possibly the only boat with a roller genoa All other boats are race boats of some description, even if they are old. Did not use the gennaker in the DW legs on the 2nd race which was a very short race 2 up wind & 2 DW and I was exhausted after using in the first. Thankfully I used to play golf in the past and my performance was worse than this, so I'll stick to yacht racing It was a fun day and a nice day on the water. I screwed up the starts in not getting the start time right (forgetting the flags which signaled the minutes) but generally the starts weren't so bad and no one yelled at us It was a bit disheartening when even the smallest boats pull away upwind. Need to get a crew....
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Post by rene460 on Apr 29, 2017 10:51:17 GMT
Hi Hoppy,
Well done for completing the race and getting a result on the board. You can only improve from here. Just as well you got that weight out.
First target is obviously that 7 min. May I suggest the hull cleaning is the place to start.
rene460
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Post by hoppy on Apr 29, 2017 12:27:30 GMT
The boat that was in front of us "Sunshine" does (did) seem to be a tail end charlie until now and it it would be nice to have beating them as a goal, but unfortunately for the winter we'll be in the pursuit series, so they'll be starting as one of the first boats and if this fleet also races, then we will be the 2nd last boat to start. They will be lonely races '(
The current handicap is 0.925, but when I look at the boats in the fleet and my perception of where we should be in the fleet (clean bottom, crew & better sails) then I think we'll still need a handicap of 0.8 - 0.82 to be a bit better than last... Yikes
I accept that this winter will be just as much about getting my perf handicap to a reasonable level as it will be about learning to race, but I'm a little worried that our late start times in the pursuits could cause a few DNF's which probably wont help the handicap.
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Post by hoppy on Apr 29, 2017 13:05:37 GMT
The current handicap is 0.925, but when I look at the boats in the fleet and my perception of where we should be in the fleet (clean bottom, crew & better sails) then I think we'll still need a handicap of 0.8 - 0.82 to be a bit better than last... Yikes After much searching, I found the handicap of a SO40.3 that also races in Melbourne (Scallywag, owner is an occasional poster here). They had 0.800 in 2015. Makes me wonder what drugs my club's handicapper was on when they gave Jessabbe slightly under the Archambault 40 R C "Arcadia" Will have to talk to the handicapper about getting a more realistic handicap for the pursuit series, especially since they supposedly looked up other similar boats, like Scallywag, to set my handicap
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Post by petermc on Apr 29, 2017 23:50:10 GMT
I was going to ask if you had inadvertently offended the handicapper before the race! I think he had no idea what he was handicapping, but problem is that with PHS here your handicap should alter each race to produce a closer approximation but you are starting so far away from where you should be you are unlikely to get to the right number by race season end - unless the hc just comes to his sense and overrights any change with a more aggressive reset, which I have not seen happen before once a series starts
Was this race part of the winter series? If not you have a good chance of getting it substantially amended because it would be a fresh series and hcs on PHS are determined for each races series dependent on the constituents racing
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Post by hoppy on Apr 30, 2017 5:02:50 GMT
I was going to ask if you had inadvertently offended the handicapper before the race! I don't think I met him, so I hope not.... think he had no idea what he was handicapping, Yeah, he probably took the lazy option and gave me a handicap for a club racer from 2002, since all boats racing were pretty much designed as club racers over the years. but problem is that with PHS here your handicap should alter each race to produce a closer approximation but you are starting so far away from where you should be you are unlikely to get to the right number by race season end - unless the hc just comes to his sense and overrights any change with a more aggressive reset, which I have not seen happen before once a series starts Was this race part of the winter series? If not you have a good chance of getting it substantially amended because it would be a fresh series and hcs on PHS are determined for each races series dependent on the constituents racing This race was the last of the summer series. It perhaps turned out a good thing I raced, so I've had a big reality check and hopefully I can now arrange a more reasonable handicap for the winter series.
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Post by so36idavid on May 1, 2017 14:37:41 GMT
Hoppy,
I've done a lot of boat racing and won a lot of races on boats of all shapes and sizes, here's my $0.02.
Rather than getting caught up in your handicap I recommend that you create a set of goals around improving performance. Once you feel consistently fast and your boat handling at the corners is immaculate and you're still losing on handicap then it's time to start thinking about a rating adjustment.
You clearly have a number of items to work on that will improve performance, work on those. For example get a diver to clean the bottom, try to recruit experienced crew etc. When you've done all that then try inviting some of the better skippers at your club to guest star on your boat for a race or two. They will see all kinds of issues that you're unaware of. Be humble, be hungry. It takes dozens of optimizations to make a boat fast.
FWIW in my experience upwind performance is a function of sail condition and driver's concentration. If your sails are old and baggy then the boat will make a lot of leeway. Similarly, a skilled and dialed in driver will take a fraction of a boat length with every wave. Practice, practice, practice.
David
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Post by hoppy on May 1, 2017 23:10:44 GMT
Hoppy, I've done a lot of boat racing and won a lot of races on boats of all shapes and sizes, here's my $0.02. Rather than getting caught up in your handicap I recommend that you create a set of goals around improving performance. Once you feel consistently fast and your boat handling at the corners is immaculate and you're still losing on handicap then it's time to start thinking about a rating adjustment. You clearly have a number of items to work on that will improve performance, work on those. For example get a diver to clean the bottom, try to recruit experienced crew etc. When you've done all that then try inviting some of the better skippers at your club to guest star on your boat for a race or two. They will see all kinds of issues that you're unaware of. Be humble, be hungry. It takes dozens of optimizations to make a boat fast. FWIW in my experience upwind performance is a function of sail condition and driver's concentration. If your sails are old and baggy then the boat will make a lot of leeway. Similarly, a skilled and dialed in driver will take a fraction of a boat length with every wave. Practice, practice, practice. David I agree 99%..... However my main focus is the Saturday winter series which is a pursuit race and with the current handicap we will be the 2nd last boat to start. It will be a very lonely race and if Arcadia sails on the opposite tack to us, we won't even get an pleasure from watching them pass us. If we do sail well, we wont know until the results are published because the boats we were catching were so far ahead we won't know it. We will struggle to improve the handicap if we get DNF's due to the time limit running out. If we were racing in normal races, then we can concentrate on trying to stay with and perhaps later be in front of the normal tail end charlies. At least they can act as a benchmark for our improvement when we still trail them. Racing needs to be fun otherwise my friends will not want to crew and no club members will want to crew on Jessabbe.
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Post by so36idavid on May 2, 2017 2:07:51 GMT
Hoppy,
I agree that it's not ideal but maybe you could think of the pursuit series as more of a training exercise? You get to practice your starts and boat handling rather than focus on your position. Cover Arcadia so that they have to pass you and pay attention to how they have their boat set up. In any case, they shouldn't be on the other side of the course, they know the local conditions better than you do, you're a newcomer. You should be covering them!
It may seem a bit demoralizing for crew but in all honesty, people who want to race competitively will be looking for a faster boat than a SO40 so don't sweat it. It's a great boat and if you have fun out there your crew will stick with you. It takes a while to build a good program, baby steps...
David
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Post by petermc on May 2, 2017 3:11:04 GMT
The whole point of phs handicapping is that a very broad spectrum of boats can race competively, after hcap calculation, with each other.
The key is that the phs handicap assigned initially should reflect the boats capabilites vs other boats in that particular fleet, it will adjust over the course of that race series to reflect the crews skills. I race against perf boats like farr 40's and Sydney 38's in my slow and heavy SF37 at CYCA under phs and we still managed to win overall this year
It's not an uncommon practise to talk to the handicapper between series to discuss this issue, hoppy I would encourage you to reach out to them before the winter series start. I agree about your crew motivation comments.
Pete
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Post by sitara on May 2, 2017 6:41:22 GMT
I had a similar experience in Wednesday evening pursuit sails in Geelong a few years ago. My initial handicap was so big that I did not finish within the ten minutes of expected time so that from a handicapping point of view my time did not count towards adjusting the handicap and so next race I started at the same time with the same result. A quick chat to the handicapper fixed the problem. As the handicapping calculations are mostly if not all automatic errors like these will not get picked up unless the handicapper does spot checks.
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Post by hoppy on May 4, 2017 22:41:32 GMT
I will not enter the first race on Saturday as my only experienced crew can't make it and others can't either. No great loss as the bottom is still dirty and I'm hauling her out next week, so the 2nd race will be our first "serious" race attempt.
I decided to volunteer to help out in the tower, so I'l be at the club house and will get to see the start list which will still show Jessabbe, hopefully with the new handicap.
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Post by hoppy on May 5, 2017 3:16:36 GMT
I just heard that my handicap is now going to be 0.810. So if it was applied to this race, I'd have an elapsed time of 44:18, still last by a long way In a pursuit race with this fleet I would start where I reasonably expect I should. Since the first race will be after the haul out, I hope many familiar boats race so I can get an idea about how much of a speed difference a fresh bottom makes.
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Post by tilo on May 5, 2017 18:38:26 GMT
Hoppy,
Congats on the new handicap. It looks reasonable at first glance, and coming in last in your first race is not a disgrace.
A fresh bottom feels good (doesn't it always?), but it will only win a race when all else is equal. Like others have said, good starts, solid tactics, clean mark roundings and an absence of mistakes wins races, and can trump superior material. Take the middle of the course, avoid the port lay line and look for clean air and you'll do just fine. (Note: I only race dinghies, but the basics are universal).
Have fun out there, Tilo
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Post by hoppy on May 6, 2017 1:41:22 GMT
A fresh bottom feels good (doesn't it always?), My 3.5 month old Admiral goes from grumpy to very happy when she knows her nappy is about to be changed and I have the same feeling knowing Jessabbe will be hauled out on Wednesday but it will only win a race when all else is equal. Like others have said, good starts, solid tactics, clean mark roundings and an absence of mistakes wins races, and can trump superior material. I'm just curious to see how much difference it makes. Just one of many improvements needed to be competitive I downloaded the start list for todays race with the new 0.810 handicap. There are a few "new" boats in these races including some small boats, so we would start 28:00 after the first boat and 12:00 before the fastest (Arcadia). What interests me most is the boat "Sunshine", in the spinnaker race they had 0.736 and were the boat closest to us and in the white sails races they have 0.850 and will start 4:00 after Jessabbe. I knew the handicaps differed but Sunshines surprises me as they seemed to be less competitive on the windward legs than they were under spinnaker. I was planning to use them as a benchmark as someone to get closer to, but now my goal will be to try to stay in front of them.
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Post by petermc on May 6, 2017 3:08:13 GMT
that sounds much better chap wise Thought you might be interested in the phs handicaps allocated for the Commodores Cup races at Sail Port Stephens last month.
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Post by hoppy on May 6, 2017 8:43:15 GMT
that sounds much better chap wise Thought you might be interested in the phs handicaps allocated for the Commodores Cup races at Sail Port Stephens last month. The only similar boats from both races were the SO40 0.925 (0.810) v 0.966 and an Archambault 32 0.856 v 0.953 Relative to each other the handicaps are fairly realistic (my adjusted 0.810 that is) in both races and the PS fleet looks like the handicaps are relatively ok. You just would not want to come down to Melbourne to race with your PS handicap. I remember reading on the SA website about PHS where they encourage a bit of interclub racing so that the clubs perhaps keep their handicaps similar. I guess they need some interstate competition to get everyone in sync. Makes me wonder if I got my original 0.925 from an interstate boat.
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Post by hoppy on May 6, 2017 8:47:59 GMT
I see that the SF37 & SO40 are almost identical in handicap. Is that a fair assessment in relative speed? I suppose you have an advantage in lighter winds but higher winds evens up the speed?
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Post by petermc on May 6, 2017 12:07:02 GMT
the advantage is not so much in light winds but rather on point of sail. We can sail quite a bit higher and at the same speed as the SO40 on the wind because we have a (in relative terms) deeper more efficient keel. On a reach and downwind the SO40 tended to be a little faster because waterline length is usually the greatest determinate of boat speed for heavy boats like ours. In the end I finished in front of him in each of the races anyway but my crew did good job during that regatta and that might explain a lot of it
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Post by hoppy on May 10, 2017 7:56:06 GMT
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Post by petermc on May 10, 2017 8:25:04 GMT
Ok....that looks to be nearly a knots worth of speed hanging off your bottom! We have great expectations for your next race with a freshly clean bum.
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Post by hoppy on May 10, 2017 8:33:55 GMT
Ok....that looks to be nearly a knots worth of speed hanging off your bottom! We have great expectations for your next race with a freshly clean bum. On the way to Sandy in calm conditions I tried full throttle for a while and only got 7.9 knots. I'm pretty sure I normally get 9 or at least 8.9 knots in those conditions. First race will be Saturday week. Might call a rigger to book a tuning as soon as she is wet again.
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Post by MalcolmP on May 12, 2017 16:12:47 GMT
Hoppy, just found some hidden weight that you might also be carrying... Did full service on heads including removal of the waste pipe - WC to holding tank - I had read about urine stone build up, but was amazed the pipe was almost blocked and getting on 3 times as heavy as it should be. I would have replaced with new but the pipe is tortuously routed and had taken on the memory, so I simply banged the pipe multiple times and flushed through, then finished with acid. Go faster heads indeed.
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Post by hoppy on May 13, 2017 7:10:59 GMT
Hoppy, just found some hidden weight that you might also be carrying... Did full service on heads including removal of the waste pipe - WC to holding tank - I had read about urine stone build up, but was amazed the pipe was almost blocked and getting on 3 times as heavy as it should be. I would have replaced with new but the pipe is tortuously routed and had taken on the memory, so I simply banged the pipe multiple times and flushed through, then finished with acid. Go faster heads indeed. I remember that from when I have to repair a pump. Yucky job when you know where it comes from. Spoke to a rigger and I will arrange for him to come out for a sail once Jessabbe is wet again. I hope it will be before next Saturday's pursuit race
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Post by hoppy on May 17, 2017 6:43:26 GMT
The boat is wet and back in her pen. Did a top speed run and saw about 8.6, so it looks like the bottom knocked off about 0.7 knots. What was more noticeable was how easily she got to 6/7 knots. The rigger will hopefully come down before the race on Saturday to see if he can figure out the port/starboard speed differences I hope a good number of the boats from the first race we did will race as they will be a good yard stick to see how much (hopefully) we improved As it is a pursuit race my first goal is not to be last, anything else is a bonus
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