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Post by ianqv on May 30, 2012 6:34:25 GMT
Hi Sailblu,
Thank for your reply.
I had only assumed my gas could be low as I seem to remember my fridge (and beer!!) being a lot colder last year.
There has not been any gas top up in between last year or this.
The next time I go to the boat I will take the temp of the fridge.
Best Regards
Ian
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Post by kollmann on May 30, 2012 13:30:15 GMT
Non Destructive testing analysis
Iamqv you said, I am about to re-gas my system with 134A
But…. How do you know how much gas to put in? You also said,
Back ground to my concern - everything still works, BUT I think it should be colder.
I don't have pressure gauges (yet) so I will confirm what is happening on that side of things soon. I also need to check the temp in the cool box. To prove I've done my homework the answer to my question was high pressure 110 psi. and low pressure range between 5 and 10 psi, however, let everything run for at least 10 mins to settle down.
Ianqv, Experience proves a boat captain needs to be smarter at analysis of refrigerator problems than a so called refrigerator service technician because no two systems have the same problems. Your suggested approach to locating problem is a round about service tech’s approach to be able to charge customer more money. The decision that refrigerant needs re-gas or connecting gauges is premature and may guide you in the wrong direction wasted hours of system down tine while doing destructive testing.
In this case you know cooling performance inside box is not what it should be. Looking for unusual temperatures throughout refrigerant cycle by non destructive ways maybe all that is needed to pinpoint the problem. Compressor compresses refrigerant vapor and high pressure gas gets warm due to compression and sent to condenser where most of heat is removed. Gas when leaving condenser is cool to a warm high pressure liquid and filtered on its way to refrigerant flow control devise, in this case a long orifice capillary tube, the only major restriction to refrigerant flow in this complete system. After flowing through capillary tube high pressure and now high velocity liquid is sprayed into low pressure areas of evaporator where it absorbs heat as it makes a phase change of liquid to a gas. The reason refrigerant liquid must make this phase change only in evaporator is this so box cooling process occurs inside evaporator and not somewhere else in system. Gas return line form evaporator to compress may be cool but not frosted.
Frost anywhere in the refrigeration loop other than at evaporator will indicate too much refrigerant or a restriction to flow on this cap tube system. Too much refrigerant would be from someone tampering with refrigerant. There are areas where there are slight restrictions that can collect material reducing flow causing a cold or frosted spot such as filter/dryer, or solder joints and refrigerant line connectors.
Picture attached to your post shows a large amount of frost on what appears to be suction line connector. If this is suction line and line between it and evaporator is not frosted there is partial blockage inside this connector. If line all the way to evaporator is frosted and no frost on evaporator flow restriction is where frost starts.
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Post by schocktherapy on Jun 5, 2012 4:21:09 GMT
Yeah your right, because these little systems are soooo much more complicated than the systems they work on EVERY DAY. What a stupid comment.
No, they do it to keep the end user, and unqualified people from tampering with the system. A qualified service technician knows how to tap into the system safely.
More stupid comments! You clearly have a real hate-on for refrigeration technicians. Perhaps if you had the training we have you wouldn't be so afraid to tap into a system. No two systems have the same problems? Of course they do! The vast majority of system problems can be counted on one hand! A good technician can narrow down which problems it could be in just a few minutes of visual and tactile inspection. They would then move on to temperature, and if necessary, pressure readings to confirm the diagnosis, and they can do this without causing any harm to the system. You cannot know for sure what is going on inside a system without this information. Sure you can make an educated guess, but it is still just a guess. If a technician needs to add refrigerant, he doesn't need to ask the factory how much to put in! We know how to charge systems. We are TRAINED to do it. It is not rocket science, but it does require some skill and experience.
Seriously Kollman, I understand that you are trying to make money selling your little booklets online, but your constant jabs and attacks on people who earn their living in the refrigeration trade are becoming a bit tiresome, and do nothing for your credibility! You act as though you are some kind of refrigeration guru, when in fact you only deal with the most rudimentary systems. Systems that I learned and mastered as a first year apprentice. There is nothing special about these systems and other than some nice compressor advancements by Danfoss, this technology hasn't changed in 100years!
/rant
Sorry guys! I am not looking to start a flame war or anything, I am just tired of reading this guys drivel about service techs and "destructive " testing here and on other sites. He offers some good info, but there is a healthy dose of nonsense mixed in as well! Keep in mind, he is selling something, I am not.
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Post by kollmann on Jun 6, 2012 15:25:45 GMT
I guess I struck a nerve if so I am sorry but it comes from 50 years of providing training and technical services to those with less training and experience. There are over one hundred different equipment options in pleasure boat refrigeration so no one technician knows the fundamentals and weaknesses of each of these delicate systems. Manufacturers of pleasure boat refrigeration with today’s economy and takeovers lack technical staff to support after market equipment so it is important that boat owners have a good understanding of their refrigeration units.
Yes, I have produced five books on boat refrigeration in the last twenty five years and made maybe 50 free service calls showing boat owners how to repair their boat’s refrigeration. This does not mean that I am a threat to honest knowledgeable refrigeration technicians.
Here is an email I answered last month, do you consider this technician actions knowledgeable or even honest?
Lake Michigan
“ AB cold machine model DCM-12 is, I'm pretty sure a 1989 unit. We bought the boat in 1992 w/35 engine hours and seemingly very little use. The fridge has performed flawlessly until this season. Before the recharge last week, it would run but not cool. After the recharge, it would cool, completely frost up the evaporator and frost up the upper refrigerant line as far as I could see into the bilge. The fridge ran continuously and would not shut off. I called the company that did the recharge and they were just here and removed about 3-4 oz. of refrigerant. He mentioned that when he got back to his shop and weighed the refrigerant installed, he thought he had put in too much. They did not bring a scale to measure the amount put in the first time. This time he brought a scale to determine how much he removed. I don't expect to be charged for the second service call. So far, so good, the fridge is cooling and cycling on and off as it used to.”
ANSWER
Your refrigerator story is a common screw up because on small systems like yours refrigerant is measured in grams not ounces. The one question I have is did mechanic find and fix the leak.?
When your refrigerant charge is correct in a cold climate the evaporator will have more than 85% of its surface area covered with frost and no frost on line outside refrigerated box. In warm weather the evaporator will have complete evaporator covered with frost.
It leak was not repaired evaporator frost areas will slowly lose frost leaving larger and larger area without frost.
RLK
Owners Reply
They did not do a leak test. I am hoping that it took 23 years for the refrigerant to leak a miniscule amt and it just needed a tiny bit extra??? My bill $284.00 seemed pretty big.
2hrs @ $100.00 an hour for portal to portal, $1.50 per mile and $60.00/lb of refrigerant. I have asked them to review the bill. He was on the boat for about an hour and it didn't take a lb of refrigerant. IF it is fixed and runs for another ---- years, it will have been worth the money, if not, I'll probably be buying another unit. We shall see.
I have decided not to put together sixth book on boat refrigeration. I am presently putting together a summery of over 4,000 emails and archives involving boat refrigeration repairs. These items will be added weekly to my web site, first item FANS is posted now,
Nine Different Ways to Improve 12 volt Refrigerator Performance with Fans
Too Much Refrigerant this week
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Post by ursmog on May 2, 2013 5:42:43 GMT
Yes - I'm late with my post, but the problem has been describted for severeal times in several forums.
The beep-Problem of the BD2, BD2.5 & BD3 fridge!
There is a defect on the controller pcb and there are some parts to replace, because the controller isn't able to detect the position of the rotor when trying to start.
All needed to repair is quite good electronic measuring equipment and some electronic parts...
Those, who do not really good know, how to find defect circuits and how to desolder and solder on a pcb should not try.
I frequently get controllers, which are damaged in a way, that repair is hardly possible.
If interested... 9653@gmx.de
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Post by sailbleu on May 3, 2013 4:41:07 GMT
Wow ursmog , now you've struck a sentive nerve. Picking up this story is sheer nostalgia. Never the less this must be one of the best topics on this board with regards to the professional info and input given along the way. But euhhh , what did you mean by the " beep-problem " ? Still interested in all the aspects of the frigoboat fridge you see. And to add an other comment , my fridge is still running strong . So all my efforts were not invane , I would do it differently if I had to do it again though. Like Schocktherapy mentioned in an earlier stage , I would hard pipe everything, meaning get rid of the fast couplings . Not that I have leak or anything , but for sure the negatives outweigh the benefits in the case of couplings Regards Ps: nice to browse once more in my old baby  |
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Post by ursmog on May 3, 2013 10:37:26 GMT
Hi Sailbleu!
Your Thread:
Apr 15, 2011 at 6:47am
Quote
Post by sailbleu on Apr 15, 2011 at 6:47am
Last season I had some probs with the fridge
, meaning it did not cool anymore and the compressor started and
stopped immediatly after , to repeat that over and over again.
... seemed to descirbe the Beep-Problem: "compressor started and
stopped immediatly after , to repeat that over and over again"
When the compressor trys to start, ther is a beep-noise, than the machine stopps to tray again after 20 sec. and so on.
Lots of people all over the world had that problem with the 4-Wire-Danfoss-Compressors and the controllunit.
I thougt, you and lot others did have this "beep"-problem, so I wrote few words that there is a fix for it.
Best!
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Post by DUET on Sept 30, 2014 0:27:53 GMT
Where can I purchase Frigoboat freezer and refrigerator top loading gaskets? Thanks.
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Post by sailbleu on Sept 30, 2014 5:08:34 GMT
Where can I purchase Frigoboat freezer and refrigerator top loading gaskets? Thanks. I suppose by gaskets you mean the filling hoses and pressure gauges no ? I bought mine in the US , ebay.com. You can even buy complete sets , topping gas included and all. And what's more important , also fairly cheap. Nice to see this topic come back to life , my fridge is still holding strong you know :-) Regards |
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Post by DUET on Sept 30, 2014 19:27:42 GMT
I'm looking for the rubber gaskets for the lids to keep outside air out. I suppose I could make them if replacements are not available.
Thanks
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