Last season I had some probs with the fridge , meaning it did not cool anymore and the compressor started and stopped immediatly after , to repeat that over and over again. When I cut the power of the unit and waited for one or two days or it was back in business when I turned on the juice.
Could the prob be related to not enough gas in the unit ? Has anyone ever encountered this probleme , and how do I refill it ? Here's some pics to illustrate , I'm not sure what make it is , I guess the standard make jeanneau used for the 40 DS serie. Can somebody help me out please?
Can't see for sure but it probably is either a Frigoboat or Vitifrigo compressor. I had a unit re-gassed a few years ago, it was not a lot from memory around 50 pounds - but think this is not a diy operation - you also need the cfc free freaon type gas.
That said it seems strange if it sometimes works OK , I would have expected if it had lost gas it would not work at all - but maybe it has airlocks
what I would also like to know is if I can disconnect the gas lines (without losing the rest of the gas ) so I can study it properly and if neccesary bring it to a professional. I must say , I have the proper gear and gas to fill car airco's - my son's has a constant leak and repairing takes dismanteling the interior completely so refilling is much cheaper , mind you , its an environment safe gas - as my home airco's which I've done several times.
The fridge on my So35 has gone on strike also. Ouch no chilled wine or beer.I am trying to get a "Fridge person" on board hopefully next week. Apparently it is better than removing it.The old idea of turning it upside down to re-awaken the gas is not an option.Will let you know how I get on.
I had a frig problem on my 2007 36i. The compressor stopped working. The problem was that the compressor over heated, because the air vent was blocked. I moved the items that were in front of the air vent and allowed the compressor to cool down. 30 minutes later I turned the compressor on and haven't had a problem since. I always check to make sure nothing is blocking the air vent. Happy Sailing mkremedy
I dont think overheating is the problem with my fridge , when it happened during last season the compressor was not warm at all. Like I mentioned before , after shutting it down for a day it cooled again afterwards. To go on strike again a few days later. No excessif heat , no abnormal noise , condensor free of objects. But to start the brainstorming , here's a link of frigoboat.com that is very interesting with regards to troubleshouting , refilling and more.
Anyway , the refusal of my unit gave me some headache during my trip last year. This cooling problem is not what you want in a mediterranean climate. Luckely I've installed a second fridge last spring , actually after the 2009 season, so I could rely on cold beer after all. Maybe I should post the procedure of the installation on this board , I've been getting alot of good comments on my local board for it. It's a 220 V AC unit stripped from a secondhand small domestic fridge. But that means translating the whole shabang , which involves some effort considering all the technical terms used. Let me give you guys a link for that , pictures tell more than a thousand (foreign) words. A dictionary would come in handy though ,also aa opportunity for practising some dutch. After all a world language dont you agree :-) :-) :-)
definitely no , i've checked the voltage several times . But what I did pick up from the frigoboat site - the troubleshouting part anyway - was that when the cooling fan's power consumption is higher than 0,7 Amps , the compressor will go into a start-stop loop. They suggest to check this by disconnecting the cooling fan and see what happens. Surely the fridge will loose capacity by lack of cooling but this brief experiment can indicate whether the fan has a malfunction.
The problem is that my fridge will work for a while , and suddenly on a unpredictable moment in time will stop working. I'm sure if I switch on the fridge now (the boat is still on the hard) it will cool for days to come not giving me a chance to work the problem. I start sailing in june , off to Norway for a few months , and as always the defect will emerge on the trip where I wont be able to try anything else than disconnecting the fan. If that is not the cause , maybe a lack of gas is .It's not obvious to refill during a trip. Refilling pre-emptive could be hazardous with regard to the compressor. It's a bit of a delemma so to speak. I was hoping if somebody out there had the same issue , solved it , and is willing to share it with us.
I am having a similar problem with my 2005 Sun Odyssey 37 -- this weekend the fridge would not cool but the compressor ran continously. I tied turning the unit off and on several times with no luck. Is there a test i can run to see what the trouble might be?
I mentioned it before , try disconnecting the cooling fan and see what happens ? Apparently if this fan takes too many amps (milliamps) the unit shuts down and restarts in a loop. Please let us now what your findings are . I had a similar test in mind , but the chances are if I start my unit (boat is still on the hard now) it keeps running/cooling for some time , so the test of disconnecting the fan is useless. Now that your problem occurs you can check this once and for all.
You also might email frigoboat.com , it seems they respond to questions . Adding this topic link could start their gear in motion , who knows. Anyway , your indications are the unit is running low on gas. But wanting to be sure and having a professional on board will make your heart and wallet bleed. This is where companies like frigoboat can help out customers by supplying them with a DIY and practical guidelines. It must be said , the website and the troubleshooting part is more extended than what you normally get.
What ever you do do not tamper with refrigerant or allow anyone to connect up to refrigerant servicing fitting. Refrigerant volume has nothing to do with your problem unless someone has already tampered with it.
Your compressor has a variable speed compressor and the electronic control module is equipped with a troubleshooting computer chip like your automobile. To get a trouble read out all you need is an inexpensive 12 volt LED red preferred. See picture of LED installed on my slide show at www.kollmann-marine.com. 1. Trouble shooting LED will only flash if electronic module sees a compressor problem. In each case problems of compressor’s failures to run are identified by counting number of flashes of LED: • No LED flashes would indicate either thermostat is open or no power to module. • One LED flash and a 4 second pause indicates a non Danfoss wiring electrical resistance problem or low batteries. Because of module’s sensitivity to milliseconds of a voltage spike they cannot be detected by a voltmeter. Solution is to bypass power wiring till resistance problem is located. • Two LED flashes indicates fan over current cutout. If fan circuit on these variable speed compressors exceeds ½ amp compressor start up will be aborted. This condition can be confirmed by disconnecting Black fan wire. On your unit BLUE wire at module, if compressor runs replace fan. • Three LED flashes indicate excessive torque is required to start compressor. This is commonly caused by turning compressor off and back on too quickly or too much refrigerant or poor condenser cooling. Most people jump to the conclusion that there is a mechanical rotor lock up inside compressor and this is a mistake on Danfoss BD compressors. • Four LED flashes indicate compressor motor not reaching sustained controlling speed above 1,850 rpm quick enough. 2. 3. Your unit has a multi speed terminal block connected to C and T terminals of control module, remove it and replace it with a jumper wire across C and T terminals this will by pass speed high speed control and eliminate thermostat, its wiring and speed control either of which can cause your problem.
If someone has tampered with refrigerant by connecting gauges to a system letting air in or adding too much refrigerant can cause either a Three or Four LED flashing signal. On water cooled Danfoss condenser systems three and four LED signals are common when seawater gets into refrigerant circuit.
Oh wow rlk !!! .....what a valuable post. And it arrived just in time , because today I kinda investigated on how to add some more refrigerant. I have all the necessairy gismos , like R134A cannisters , hoses, connections and bits and bobs.
I've tried my fridge today and found out that the unit starts freezing and after a while the compressor stops and starts in a loop , so the evaporator warms up , defrosts and freezes up again . That kept going on , and as you can understand it is not benificial to the cooling capacity . Tomorrow (I hope) I'll install the led and read the troubleshooting. I've allready measured the fans amps , 140mA , way below the 0,5 Amp mark. I also cleaned up the condensor thoroughly. Will take some extra pics and maybe we can sort this problem out. If we do manage to resolve my (our) failure , I will adapt the titel of this topic so others can find their way to a solution for a malfunction which is apparently fairly common . More to come.
Thanks for the advice. Just to be clear, my boat has the Frigiboat unit. I am not sure how to disconnect the fan -- is the wiring easy to see and disconnect? And if I need to hook up an LED, can you tell me where the leads should be connected? I have never messed with this type of system so am at a loss as to how to perform these steps. Thanks so much!
on your own picture in the back you see a vertical yellow label and the leads going into the socket next to that label. The lead corresponding with the letter F is one of the supply leads to the fan. Just pull it out and the fan stops , you can then measure the milli amps. But I'm quiet sure all will be ok. I still think there is something wrong with the amount of gas in my unit. While trying it I heard that typical hissing sound in the evaporator , and according to frigoboats troubleshooting that could be the evidence of a lack of refrigerant. I'm not sure if I can work out the led today ,.......grandchildren you see.
But if you follow the link given by member rlk , you will find the way how and where to connect. Rlk's contribution - again , a very valuable one - could be a respons to my cry for help on the cruisers and sailors board a few days ago. There are by occasion a number of similar discussions going on. www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/bizarre-frigoboat-behaviour-54872.html One thing must be clear though , our faillure has (probably) nothing to do with frigoboat , they only add the danfoss compressor and module to their system and in fact it should be danfoss who need to supply their customers with proper troubleshooting feedback ,.....if the failure is electrical related of course. Which in my case I'm not that sure of .
So first things first,....the led test . I will elaborate on that in short notice.
Whether your Danfoss BD compressor is operating on 12 or 24 volts the fan will be a 12 volt brushless fan with several transistors inside instead of brushed. Even though fan may run on another 12 volt power source it may be defective as far as the Danfoss’s electronic module is concerned. Simple test of fan is to see if compressor will operate for several minutes without fan, if it will replace Fan. To deactivate fan disconnect its ground wire normally black from terminal F on control module it will be the only wire on terminal F.
The variable speed Danfoss compressors BD35 and BD50 currently come with a standard model 101N0210 or 101N0211 electronic module. Older BD35 compressors like sailbleu’s has a smaller capacity discontinued module.
Connecting a troubleshooting LED is simple if you purchase a 12 volt LED with polarized plus and minus red and black wires like a 276-270A from Radio Shack.. Black ground connects to unused module terminal D. Red LED lead must be connected to the small plus module terminal along with positive fan wire already connected there. Simplest way to connect both items to one male spade is to purchase a dual male to single female spade adapter where you buy LED.
If compressor does not run with a Danfoss BD compressor system and no one has tampered with refrigerant do not connect gauges or mess with refrigerant to do so may cause you to spend a great deal of money. Unlike other systems Danfoss’s safety circuits in module will not stop compressor if refrigerant is low or even with no refrigerant. If refrigerant has been contaminated or overcharged or condenser cooling is poor causing amperage to increase control module will stop compressor from running.
For you to determine correct amount of refrigerant in this type system by sound of refrigerant noise in evaporator is wrong advice. All that can be concluded by hissing sound in evaporator is there is some refrigerant moving into low pressure area of evaporator.
Advice, Do not try to fix it if it is not broke this means do not replace O rings that do not leak unless the system needed to be opened for another reason. Shelf life of O rings is short, in service lubricated O rings can last for many years.
Yesterday I managed to attach a led to the module. But to fill in the story first , I must add the fact that after my first test a few days ago - you know , where the fridge went haywire again , I cleaned up the condensor . Removed some dust with a vacuumcleaner , not excessive mind you.
Anyway , once the led was connected I started the unit and had it running for an hour or so. The evaporator cooled completely , rather fast i must say.
[a href=""][/a] Minus 24° Celcius on the whole surface of the evaporator.
There's was no led-blinking in the least and the unit kept going on as if nothing was/is wrong. Maybe I should prolong the test , which I'm about to do today. Perhaps the condensor cleaning had something to do with it , perhaps its the same story that when you perform a serious test in order to locate the malfunction , the device works flawlessly I guess it will take me some more testing to really be sure that the condensor was the culprit.
But I must repeat that the hissing is very prominent , but it also does it with on and offs , indicating that sometime liquid runs in the evaporater , and sometime only gas. I'm convinced gas should not be going into the evaporator , since this can not be the principle of cooling in general is it not ??
[a href=""][/a] This pic shows the possibility of adapting the compressors speed . Kolmanns website speaks about using resistants , but I suppose in my case I just have to alter the bottom pin right ??
Questions , questions and questions. Thanks for responding sofar.
Hey guys, I came to this board looking for Jeanneau info, but given that I am a refrigeration technician by trade, I thought I would jump in here. First of all, you really can't know exactly what is going on in a system without having pressure gauges on the system, but you can get a good idea from temperatures.
if the compressor is running and everything is cooling fine, and then it suddenly stops cooling while the compressor keeps running (or overloads and cuts out) then it is possible that something is restricting refrigerant flow. Given that the system works again after it rests, I would say that something is likely moisture in the system. even the tiniest amount of moisture will freeze when it exits the metering device, which in the case of your systems is a very fine capillary tube. Once the system is shut off and warms up, the ice melts, and the system works fine until the next time the moisture finds it's way to that part of the system. some tell-tale signs that this is happening is increased amp draw on the compressor as it builds head pressure against the blockage, and possibly localized frosting where the liquid refrigerant feeds into the evaporator. If you see the frosty area at the inlet, try putting hot water soaked cloth on it to defrost the blockage.
Moisture and non-condensible gasses are two things you do not want in your system. Unfortunately they are also very easy to get into a system if it is serviced by someone careless or incompetent.
Here are a few tips to help you keep an eye on your system:
-make note of the amp draw of your compressor during normal operation. Expect that number to be higher when you are pulling the box down to temperature, and lower once it is cold. (it might get a bit more complicated with multi speed compressors) If the amp draw starts running below what you know is normal, then it is possible you have a refrigerant leak and your system is low on refrigerant. If the amp draw trends higher than normal, then you may not have adequate ventilation around your condenser, the condenser coil is dirty, or you have contaminants in your system.
- The hot gas line going from the compressor to the top of the condenser should be hot to the touch, the liquid refrigerant line coming out of the bottom of the condenser should be slightly warm to cool. If it is hot, then your condenser is not doing it's job, and the compressor is being stressed.
-The suction line from the evaporator to the compressor should be cool when the system is down to temperature, It may even frost up a bit in some conditions, this is a sign that the system charge is not too bad. If it is low on refrigerant it would be warm.
-you will usually hear faint hissing and bubbling noises coming from the evaporator coil when the system is running. Frost build up on the plates should be consistent throughout the plate once the system has been running for a while. If you get alot of ice build up at the inlet side of the plate and nothing at the outlet you may be low on refrigerant. If you want to defrost your plates please, PLEASE do not chip it off! You would be amazed how many people poke holes in their evaporators defrosting them! Just turn off the system and pour hot water on them if you are in a hurry! also, protect the plates from being dented. they are very soft aluminum, and if you pinch off one of the passages you effect efficiency.
-The refrigerant lineset between the condensing unit and the evaporator plates should also be checked and protected from kinks and damage. alot of dealer installed systems have quick couplers on the compressor end which quite often leak. thin out some dish soap with a bit of water and apply it to the joint and look for bubbles that would indicate a leak. Tighten with wrenches being very careful not to twist the copper tubes. Quite often the lineset that came with the system is much longer than needed, and the excess is coiled up somewhere. That coil is a common place for leaks to form due chaffing. When you do have a proper refrigeration technician work on your system consider paying him to remove extra lineset and the quick couplers and hard-pipe the system.
-Adding or removing refrigerant should be left to a pro! Not only are there important procedures to follow in order to remove moisture and non-condensables from a system, and to avoid introducing them, but there is also precise methods of determining how much refrigerant to put into the system. Your systems are what is referred to as "critical charge". They will only function correctly with a specific amount of refrigerant. A compressor relies on cool suction gas returning to cool it. If a system is under charged the compressor does not get adequate cooling, and it may run constantly and never achieve the desired box temp. this is very hard on the compressor. If you put too much refrigerant in you risk un-evaporated liquid refrigerant flooding back to the compressor. This is not a good thing; liquid does not compress! Liquid flood back can destroy your compressor.
Very few people or refrigeration technicians understand these small computerized 12/24 volt systems with variable speed Danfoss BD Compressors. Avoid suggestions when troubleshooting can produce destruction to a system like tampering with refrigerant. Correct non destructive testing is what I recommend. Your current report confirms the refrigerant portion of system is operating correctly, complete evaporator skin temperature reached minus 24 degrees C (-11 degrees F) and no red LED signaling. If there were moisture in system Evaporator temperature would be above freezing temps and compressor will keep running and no Red LED signal. The hissing sound of refrigerant flowing in evaporator on this small mobile refrigerator system is always going to be changing do to unstable condenser super cooling and changes in evaporator super heat. Because your unit contains only around 3 ounces of refrigerant and no reserve there are times when condenser cooling will send a mixture of liquid and then gas into expansion capillary tube causing the hissing sound to pulsate sound. Hissing sound is again changing as pressure drops along with temperature in evaporator. I repeat HISSING SOUND ON YOUR SYSTEM ONLY CONFIRMS THERE IS FLOW THROUGH EXPANSION DEVICE. The problem of loss of cooling because compressor stopped is going to be confined to a single location by LED flashes. If compressor stops before desired evaporator temperature reaches desired temperature then thermostat, its wiring or resistor plate is at fault. Do not change compressor speed as it is currently operating at 3000 rpm. My last post described tests for boat wiring, fan problem elimination and bypassing speed plate and thermostat assembly as trouble cause.
Post by schocktherapy on Apr 29, 2011 18:06:00 GMT
you provide interesting insight into the newest Danfoss compressors; they have certainly made some advancements since I was installing boat refrigeration in the'90s! I will take issue with your statement that very few refrigeration techs understand the new compressors, any trained refrigeration tech who can read should have no trouble getting up to speed, if they cant, they shouldn't be in the trade!
It sounds like the diagnostic led could be helpful in telling you what the compressor module is doing, but it is not necessarily going to tell you why it is doing it. The module has built in overload and thermal protection, either of these functions could cause the compressor to cut out but you can't know why without making the observations of the overall system.
I put out the suggestion that moisture in the system could cause the symptoms described because I have seen it many times in my20 years in the trade! It can and will manifest itself with a cold evaporator because that is when the water is most likely to stay in ice form. I am not saying that is definitely what is going on in this case, but it should not be dismissed out of hand, particularly if the system has been "topped up" in the past.
Oh boy , this board really shows its use. The contributions of the two experts are like a positive schocktherapy :-) . Thanks a lot for again sharing your expertise.The info given sofar must make it reasonably clear for the common mortal on how our fridge system works. It's now a matter of making a synthesis of all the remarks and pour it into a homemade workshop manual. Or better yet , why not buy the DIY manual , I guess that's no money down the drain.
If the rest of the members dont mind I would like the alter the titel of this topic so it will be more accessible for google search.Since many boat refrigeration is done with frigoboat and/or danfoss compressor , more precise keywords wouldn't harm.
But here's the next episode of my story. Yesterday I had the fridge doing his/her thing for about 4 hours , no hic cup whatsoever he/she performed with a vengeance. The bugger kept on cooling as if nothing ever happened , not a single led blink popped up. All that indicates more and more towards a previous contaminated/polluted condensor. I will first of all modify the led test set-up and turn it into a final one. This for future reference of course.
On my Norway endeavour starting in june I will however bring along a R134 cannister,.......just in case. Together with all the abundant practical tips here , an accurate troubleshoothing should not be that difficult. Without any doubt I will absolutely take the advise of not adding extra refrigerant to the system into account. After this topic I'm more or less confident I a can read most of the signs , that doesn't necessarily mean I became a refrigeration technican overnight , far from that.
Leaves me with the questionmark on how water can enter a closed coolingsystem knowing for sure that the circuit has never been opened , serviced or tampered with. So , would that guarantee allow me to exclude the presence of water in my unit ?
If you are 100% confident that your systen has never beer opened or recharged rhen we can probably rule out contaminants in the refrigerant.
The strange thing about the problem you describe is that you say the system stops cooling but the compressor keeps running like nothing is wrong. Are you sure the compressor is running and not just the condenser fan? That would be a more likely scenario. Perhaps rlk knows if there are any faults where the danfoss module would shut down the compressor yet keep the fan enegized. Although didn't you also say that there was no fault code indicated on the led?
It is entirely possible that cleaning the condenser coil solved your problem. If the condenser can not reject enough heat, it results in high discharge pressure which in turn results in higher current draw, and the compressor can over heat and shut down on its internal thermal protection. Next time the problem occurs use a DC volt meter to see if the compressor is still energized.
What kind of ambient temperatures do you get in the area the compressor is located? Does it have good ventilation when it is all closed up?
Thanks to schocktherapy’s help in making my point about false facts clear. It is difficult to follow the information posted on the web and separate fact from fiction. When troubleshooting any system on a boat especially refrigeration nondestructive testing is the safe approach in locating and repairing a system or unit. Advice given by fellow boaters good or bad is given in good faith. Most service techs charge for service call even if they do not know what is wrong with the unit. Dream up wild theories that are not confirmed by operating conditions presented by owner such as blocked capillary tubes or low on refrigerant. Some times refrigerator works fine other times it does not. Service tech response might be I added refrigerant and say if it happens again I can install a new unit for you, yours it not worth repairing. If you search my refrigeration forum you will find damage done to many boaters refrigerators by lack of correct technical knowledge. Final solution for some boaters after so called techs misanalyses a simple problem have spent enough to by two or three new refrigeration units. Troubleshooting Danfoss’s compressor systems is simple enough that any boater can do it by locating a problem area and in most cases corrective action will be to replace fan or corroded wire connection or unplug and replace control module. Troubleshooting is a simple process of elimination and not jumping immediately to unapparent wild expensive conclusions.
If fan is running and there is no cooling you must confirm if compressor is also running. Compressor is so quiet you may not hear it run but after 30 minutes it gets warm and still no cooling there is a refrigerant problem. If compressor does not run there is an electrical spike problem with boats wiring during start that can only be confirmed by bypassing all boat DC power grid wiring. If fan has one or more of its field transistors shorted this can be confirmed if its black ground wire is disconnected from F module terminal, if compressor now runs replace fan. Thermostat circuit in control module operates on only 2 to 6 milliamps so if there is any amount of corrosion on C and T terminals it will prevent compressor from running. These BD compressors unlike others are not protected by internal thermal protection. Use of a volt meter to detect voltage at compressor will not detect anything unless compressor is running. A volt meter can be used to measure voltage at electronic module but it will not display a low voltage spike that module might see terminating compressor start up and run. The BD2.5 and BD3 compressors are all fixed speed units so installing LED will only give warning if there is a boat electrical problem. The BD35 and BD50 compressors when troubleshooting LED is installed will monitor five module safety circuits if limits are exceeded will stop compressor and turn on LED code sequence. Counting LED flashes repeated every four seconds will pinpoint trouble area. One flash boat electrical problem, Two flashes Fan problem, Three flashes compressor overload, Four flashes Compressor did not reach minimum control speed quick enough and Five flashes compressor running under a heavy load and will damage control module if allowed to repeatedly cycle off and on.
My unit has now had a 24 hours workingshift , and is performing outstanding. I added a small gadget so the led test became more permanent. I also installed a switch to bypass the thermostat , just in case this part starts behaving strange. [a href=""][/a]
I would -one more time - like to express my thanks to all who helped me (us) with this problem . A printout of the remarks/advice is now filled on board. This has been a very helpfull topic and I hope more boatowners will be guided by the info given here.
I could not figure out how to evaluate my system, so called in a tech. It turns out the gas pressure was too low, and he found a loose hose connection that could have been the reason for a leak. He recharged the system and it seems to be running fine again.