New standing rigging required... bugger

[hoppy]

Yesterday I finally got someone up the mast to change the anchor light, retrieve my spinnaker halyard and check the rigging.

The check brought me bad news. A few rivets on the spreaders are half way out of the hole and several of the caps on the spreaders are badly cracked and some noticeable wear on the wire at the spreaders. Just saw the photos (will get them later) and spoke to the guy. It's replacing the standing rigging time

I'm frustrated with myself that I hadn't got it checked earlier and I had delayed asking for the check because I was waiting to source a LED anchor light so it's all done at once.

I was planning on probably replacing the standing rigging next winter. So now I guess I will probably miss out on sailing for the next month

bugger!!!


Now that it's coming down, I need to to think of some extra things to get done.

1) replace deck light with LED
2) add a 2nd genoa halyard
3) reroute radar cable into conduit (I hear it slapping)
4) replace all electrical wiring (the anchor light wiring was a bit crappy looking)
5) Add bracket and whatever hardware needed for inner forestay (at a height where I wont need running backstays, I think)

I think I will look at replacing the roller unit with one that the tack is not fixed to the drum. Any suggestions for a good unit, perhaps I've been in Sweden too long because I automatically think Selden

[Don Reaves]

Hoppy,

I recall seeing what looked like a glass-covered high-gain VHF antenna in one of the pictures of the top of your mast. You should check it's condition. If it needs to be replaced, and it really is a high-gain antenna, you might consider replacing it with a 3 dB (i.e. low-gain) wire whip with a loading coil.

A high-gain antenna works by having a more directional pattern, which will aim up into the sky or down into the water when the boat is heeling, reducing your range. A low-gain antenna won't put out as much signal toward the horizon, but even with the height of the mast, the horizon is close enough that it really doesn't matter.

Don

[hoppy]

Good point. I've looked at the whole high/low gain stuff with antennas for my quadcopter but never considered it in regards to the VHF

Just had a quick glance around at what others have and there are many more thin wire than thicker antennae. If I replace it I should I guess change the coaxial cable as well.

This delay on departing perhaps will give me the opportunity to revisit the watermaker idea I have

[hoppy]

[ianpowolny]

Hoppy, how old is you're rigging?

We added 2 x LED deck lights on the spreaders. The only problem with them is they are both angled forward as there is a swivel joint attachment. When we are running the main push them into this position. The light is still better than the standard steaming/deck light combined.

With mast down you can also check the Genoa furling system.

Ian

[hoppy]

Jun 13, 2015 12:34:21 GMT ianpowolny said:

Hoppy, how old is you're rigging?

We added 2 x LED deck lights on the spreaders. The only problem with them is they are both angled forward as there is a swivel joint attachment. When we are running the main push them into this position. The light is still better than the standard steaming/deck light combined.

With mast down you can also check the Genoa furling system.

Ian

Boat is 2002 so 13 years. I've been expecting it to require replacement soon and did not want to do anything too adventurous before replacing it.

The roller system came off at the start of last year, it was wearing into the forestay, so that was replaced. But I think I will replace the roller.

[ianpowolny]

Hoppy, check out Z-Spars furler. It was the best priced I could find in the UK. Simple but I think effective. Ian

[MartyB]

Harken IV and Lewmar have removable drums also. Can be good if racing when you want a full FULL hoist head sail or to remove for inspection etc.

I also have original rigging, Amoretto is an 85. Altho if I pull the mast, there will be other issues to deal with also.......those could be a real pain!

Marty

[rxc]

I have just started this process, for a number of reasons. (1)Insurance companies don't want to insure rigs that are over 10 years old (mine is now 12), (2) Insurance companies want boats in Florida to be hauled for hurricanes, and I waited too long to get a spot in line for haulout at local yard, so (3) I have had boat hauled and put into storage in-land for the summer. To get to storage facility, the mast had to come down, so it did, and now I have all the rigging in two boxes in my garage, and the mast on supports near where the boat is sitting on the hard.

Lots of stuff to do, aloft. Replace lights, fix wind indicators, consider upgrading wind instruments, consider replacing wiring, check condition of radar, maintenance on both roller furlers, boom maintenance, halliard inspection and possible replacement, etc.

Big question is where to buy new rigging and what to buy. I have all the Jeanneau specs for the rigging, from the manual, and will lay it all out and measure the old ones to see if they agree with the specs. Then, what to do about ordering new stuff. The riggers who took down the mast and stripped it said that I should replace all the turnbuckles and other hard points where cracks "were sure to exist, even if microscopic". 316 SS seems to be the best choice, but it is not quite as strong as 304, so have to upsize rigging to compensate for this. How much? Would it be a good idea to give up metric wire and go with local (english/imperial/USian inches), because I don't anticipate going back to the EU? Does Jeanneau sell replacement rigging?

I did a quick search of the board for comments on these subjects, but there is not very much available. This might be a good time to hear what others have done, or are planning to do.

[so40gtb]

rxc,

Since you're in Florida, you should have a chat with Colin Mack at Mack Sails. He has been doing presentations on rigging corrosion and such at the Strictly Sail shows. Mack also does standing rigging, especially for boats close to them.

--Karl

[rxc]

Karl,

Colin Mack and his crew organized my mast removal and stripped it all down for me. They recommended complete rigging replacement, and will be one of the vendors I get a quote from. They are literally about 1.5 miles (~2km) from my house, and are quite well regarded down here.

What was most amazing about the process is that I now have a complete spare set of rigging in two boxes that can fit into the storage spots under the aft bunk in my43DS. Quite astounding how small it all is. My wife will, of course, not want me to store anything else on the boat, so there will have to be some discussion about this....<g>

[On y va]

hoppy: all I see is a few rivets sticking out and the spreader caps need replacing and you mention some electrical wires.

When you say "I need to replace the standing rigging" that means all stays and turnbuckles. But 13 years is not that old. The 10 year stipulation varies per insurance and is only based on manufacturers guarantees. Most boats sail 20 or 30 years or even more without issues.

(little anekdote: some months ago, we had a boat that came from Turkey, with 2 broken stays. They were replaced in Turkey. But as these turkish "riggers" didn´t have a hydraulic terminal press, they just welded the wire to the terminals!!!   )

Anyhu, if I were you, I would get a reputable rigging company (and I mean reputable) to do a full rig check and possibly die-check the terminals. As then you know what is the actual status of your standing rig, as well as a lot of insurance companies accept this rig check report as "good husbandry" and wave the 10 year thing.

I.e. I have an official rig check done every other year.

[hoppy]

Jun 17, 2015 16:24:02 GMT On y va said:

hoppy: all I see is a few rivets sticking out and the spreader caps need replacing and you mention some electrical wires.

When you say "I need to replace the standing rigging" that means all stays and turnbuckles. But 13 years is not that old. The 10 year stipulation varies per insurance and is only based on manufacturers guarantees. Most boats sail 20 or 30 years or even more without issues.

(little anekdote: some months ago, we had a boat that came from Turkey, with 2 broken stays. They were replaced in Turkey. But as these turkish "riggers" didn´t have a hydraulic terminal press, they just welded the wire to the terminals!!!   )

Anyhu, if I were you, I would get a reputable rigging company (and I mean reputable) to do a full rig check and possibly die-check the terminals. As then you know what is the actual status of your standing rig, as well as a lot of insurance companies accept this rig check report as "good husbandry" and wave the 10 year thing.

I.e. I have an official rig check done every other year.

I was planning to replace the standing rigging next winter anyway as a "feel good factor". So it's more just an inconvenient timing rather than an unexpected cost. It was the german company that looks after the boat that detected the issues.

There is just the one rigging company in Corfu servicing a large marina and hopefully they know what they are doing. The germans said they are good.

Anyway the mast comes down tomorrow and we'll see exactly the condition of everything.

It might be just a vanity thing but I am very happy to replace the turnbuckles as they have always looked nuts.

Whilst we are at it, I will get a bracket for an inner forestay fitted to the mast (will do the deck level stuff over the winter) and I am waiting on a price of the Harken MKIV roller. The forestay is 2 years old, so hopefully it will remain and fit the harken.

[On y va]

I assume the MKIV Unit 2, as the forestay is 10mm?

Good thing I read you r going for a Harken MKIV and not the ESP. They suck and have ugly round profiles.
The MKIV is very easy to install. We installed 2 of them earlier this year (one electric 3E and one unit 2 for the staysail). Very nice materials and well manufactured.

[hoppy]

Jun 17, 2015 20:43:31 GMT On y va said:

I assume the MKIV Unit 2, as the forestay is 10mm?

Good thing I read you r going for a Harken MKIV and not the ESP. They suck and have ugly round profiles.
The MKIV is very easy to install. We installed 2 of them earlier this year (one electric 3E and one unit 2 for the staysail). Very nice materials and well manufactured.

unit 2 yes and assuming that it is 10mm until we confirm it tomorrow.

For Harken it had to be the MKIV. The key points when choosing a replacement was the swivelling tack and removable drum (I hope I can justify it one day)

[hoppy]

Spent time this morning removing the battens and reef lines from the main preparing to the sail removal. After the rigging guys arrived I disappeared and on my return I found that they had removed the boom with the sail on it.

Bugger, I wasted my time this morning DOH

[vasko]

check every single peace of work in the rigging yourself after the pros has finished .... last time my rigging was changed I found one locking pin not properly fitted .... and next day I was in a really heavy weather in the channel ... if I haven't found the small issue I may have been dismasted... and this is job done from professionals in UK/Port Solent , I can only imagine what can be done in Greece having already long experience there...

[erkan]

How do you unscrew the blocked turnbuckles? Heating did not help, hammering may help. In this case if I unscrew it by hammering, will it lose any strength, or it is not reliable anymore?

[hoppy]

Jun 18, 2015 15:20:20 GMT erkan said:

How do you unscrew the blocked turnbuckles? Heating did not help, hammering may help. In this case if I unscrew it by hammering, will it lose any strength, or it is not reliable anymore?

The guy preparing the boat for mast removal (tomorrow as its too windy today) said one turn buckle is jammed, so they will cut it tomorrow.

[erkan]

this is not a good news for me I have more than one I think...

[hoppy]

It's probable that they are planning to cut because it's the fastest way to get the mast of and it doesn't matter as it will get replaced anyway

[Don Reaves]

If the turnbuckle is seized, I would start with some penetrating oil, liberally applied to the threads. Wait, give it a try. Apply again and wait some more if necessary. It's certainly worth going through this process before resorting to anything as final as cutting it off.

[hoppy]

Just asked the rigger what they do with a stuck turnbuckle when passive means fail. The cut the turnbuckle vertically where the thread is and this releases it enough to loosen.

[erkan]

So if understand correctly, only the middle female part will be cut. I will be able to use the wire and the terminal? Pls say yes

[hoppy]

Jun 19, 2015 16:54:20 GMT erkan said:

So if understand correctly, only the middle female part will be cut. I will be able to use the wire and the terminal? Pls say yes

In this instance, using "female" sounds a bit strange. My friends and I call it "pig on a spit"

But yes, you only cut the part you turn which luckily is the easy to replace part. But first try what Don suggested.

If you have to cut, you probably need to be careful to not go to deep. I'm under the impression that you probably don't need to go as deep as the thread.