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Post by pandora on Sept 3, 2013 17:36:34 GMT
Hi
Sun Odyssey 39i owners....please confirm anchor windlass on your boat is connected on engine battery.......
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Post by MalcolmP on Sept 3, 2013 17:55:43 GMT
Hi Sun Odyssey 39i owners....please confirm anchor windlass on your boat is connected on engine battery....... Hi Yes I believe it is, I am not at the boat, but know that the windlass will only operate when the engine is running. I normally have my engine revs up quite high in neutral when using the windlass to try to avoid the low voltage alarms going off. I have wondered if it might be better to link into the bowthruster battery, but then I am no electrician - others may have a view? Malcolm |
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Post by pandora on Sept 3, 2013 18:30:23 GMT
...there's an electronic protection that connects windlass only whit diesel engine on. But I'm very shocked a 110 amp tudor battery must supports diesel engine and windlass....it's very strange.....generally windlasses are connected to domestic batteries.....
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Post by nornaj on Sept 30, 2013 15:45:15 GMT
Yes, the starter battery runs the windlass. And the windlass will not work unless the engine is running. Suspect this is an idiot-proofing design for charter boats.
On Norna J, we have recently installed a bow thruster with a high cranking battery up forward that drives both the windlass and the bow thruster. So the starter battery is now limited to just that - starting.
On our last trip the windlass decided only to work at high engine revs (and then poorly), in addition there was a constant chatter from the windlass compartment. Eventually, it was established that the relay aft of the alternator was vibrating and sending a pulse to the forward relay (the one chattering). The aft relay was replaced and secured to the inside of the hatch coaming between the engine room and the shower. That worked.
Next job is to bypass the engine-running requirement completely. An unnecessary complication.
best
Norna J
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Post by ianqv on Sept 30, 2013 17:24:15 GMT
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Post by nornaj on Oct 1, 2013 15:28:06 GMT
Thank you, Ian
Good stuff. Nice pics.
We already installed a breaker in the forward cabin for the windlass, while the aft one (old windlass breaker) is now used only in the charging circuit. So the only connection to the back end is for charging the fwd bank (which uses what were previously the windlass power cables).
My intention is to circumvent the whole conditionality, however. i.e. separate the operation of the windlass completely from the back end.
That will take us a step beyond your ignition conditionality. Are there any good reasons not to go that route?
Input appreciated.
NornaJ
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Post by jeremyr on Oct 4, 2013 7:54:11 GMT
Getting ready to retrofit a bow thruster to a DS45 and plan on reconfiguring the windlass wiring as you describe to power the windlass from the new bow battery and reuse the old windlass power cables as charging cables for the new bow battery. Please keep us informed of how your project goes.
Thanks
JR
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Post by teodoro on Jun 27, 2016 21:58:32 GMT
Hi,
I'm resuming an old discussion here, as I'm working on improving electrics & wiring on my 36i.
I discovered - to my surprise - that the windlass is in fact working on the starter battery. And this is giving me several low voltage warnings when I operate the windlass, even if I'm revving up the engine rpms during the operation.
In principle, I don't think it is very smart to have windlass connected on starter battery as it risks draining the battery that is providing the most important service.... starting up the engine! In fact, on my boat, I believe this has had a very negative impact on starting battery so far.
I've simply re-routed the cable going from the windlass breaker to the engine battery (via the engine battery breaker) to move to the starter battery bank breaker. Current wiring still prevents the windlass to operate when the engine is off, but I feel better this way.
Any comments or questions on what is better? I understand it is the common set up by Jeanneau... and it was a big surprise to me!
Best
Teo
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Post by sailbleu on Jun 28, 2016 6:09:25 GMT
Last winter I installed a separate closed lead acid in the bow for windlass and thruster.
In the normal setup you have leads running from to bow to the battery compartment that usually near the engine compartment.
High currents via long leads is not exactly the best sollution.
Up to now after quite some anchorages I' m very pleased with this modification.
Dont use AGM batteriesa as supply to windlass or thruster , most of them are not designed to give high currents.
Been there , done that.
Regards
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Post by teodoro on Jul 1, 2016 11:11:55 GMT
But in this case you end up with long cables to recharge the separate bow battery don't you? Do you manage this battery to be part of the service bank or as a completely separate bank? In this case, I assume you have to create separate cable from both the alternator and the dock charger...
At the moment, I switched the windlass to take power from the house service bank, I'll see how this performs.
I have regular batteries, not AGM... was wondering if it makes sense spending so much money if there are so many counterindications.
Thanks
Teo
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Post by jeremyr on Jul 3, 2016 20:00:46 GMT
There are really two separate cases here, 1) those that have a bow thruster with the requisite bow battery bank, and 2) those that don't. In addition there is the question of enabling the windlass to run without the engine running. If you already have a bow thruster and bow battery bank then it is both easy and compelling to make the minor wiring mods to power the anchor windlass from the bow bank. Once done, it makes sense to also make the minor tweak to enable operation without the engine running. I will provide info on how I rewired our boat to use the bow battery for the windlass, along with repurposing the original long windlass wires to become the charging wires to the bow bank. Note, there are now AGM "starting" batteries that are capable of providing the monster amps required by a bow thruster. And, a windlass takes about 1/5th of what a bow thruster takes. If you don't have a bow thruster and battery then it isn't worth installing a bow battery just for the windlass. However, there is an argument for switching the windlass to draw from house bank, in which case you could argue in favor of enabling operation without the engine running. If you leave the windlass drawing its power from the engine starting battery then you should leave the relay lockout as is, namely requiring the engine key on in order to run the windlass. That serves two purposes, 1) it prevents one from draining the starting battery and leaving you unable to start the engine, and 2) it raises the system voltage, which helps make up for the voltage drop across the long cable to the windlass. On our SO 45DS there was a convenient jumper wire provided, hanging from the windlass power relay forward of the v-berth, that can be plugged in to bypass the engine ignition switch lockout. That's simpler than changing the setup back by the engine. Stay tuned for more details when I get some time. ALSO - IMPORTANT Warning: The 125A circuit breaker that Jeanneau provided for the windlass (at least the one used on some) is extremely prone to failure from over-torquing the nut on the studs on the back, damaging the internal electrical connection between the stud and the rest of the breaker. It is critical to use a backing-wrench on the nut behind the wire lug so that no torque is applied to the stud. Same is true for the breakers for the winches (at least on the SO 45DS). The failures on mine took years to occur after the over-torquing. While waiting for a new breaker, I managed to fit a Maxi-fuse across the studs as a temporary measure. Write-ups on the circuit breaker failure (first one is mine) jeanneau.proboards.com/post/26349/threadjeanneau.proboards.com/post/11786/threadjeanneau.proboards.com/post/10768/thread |
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Post by teodoro on Jul 6, 2016 10:32:17 GMT
Thanks, helpful answer!
I do NOT have bowthrust and separate battery, just the windlass. I decided to move the windlass to the house bank rather than engine - as I believe it's more appropriate in terms of Ampere load and safer when it comes to ensuring the engine battery is always working...
I have however not disconnected the relay that is preventing the windlass to work when the engine is off. THis way at least I'm sure I'm not killing the house bank.
Does it make sense as a setup?
Tks
Teo
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Post by hoppy on Jul 6, 2016 10:54:47 GMT
I have however not disconnected the relay that is preventing the windlass to work when the engine is off. THis way at least I'm sure I'm not killing the house bank. Diconnect it. If you don't charter your boat then it's not needed. You know to run your engine when hauling up, so you won't be flattening your housebank, but if you need to make even the slightest adjustment, you need to start your engine of do it by hand.. This morning in a very crowded anchorage I had to shorten my scope by 5m. So much easier without needing to start the engine. Doing it was not a risk to my starter |
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Post by jez on Jul 6, 2016 11:57:12 GMT
The principle reason the windlass is powered from the engine starter battery is to try to avoid damaging the Windlass with inappropriate use.
If the Windlass is used too hard on a battery fully capable of supplying excess current by holding up its voltage then the correctly sized winch over current protection trip will drop out before the motor windings get too hot.
If on the other hand the Windlass is used too hard on a battery that is dropping off. It will supply just enough current to burn up a stalling motor, but not enough to trip the protection. This is also why the manufacturers are very keen that thick and short cable are used as that has the same effect. The motor can be destroyed in 10's of seconds, not minutes in this situation.
There's no issue running a winch on the service batts if your are winching sympathetically to the state of charge and the labouring noises from the motor.
If there is a mod to put a battery up front with the winch to help keep the voltage up if the wires are long, then the over current protection trip needs moving up too.
Jez
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Post by sailbleu on Jul 7, 2016 7:13:58 GMT
You're right Jez.
This is why it's worthwhile of putting a battery up front .
By the way , I see your home port is in Corfu , I'm anchored up near Antipaxos for the moment.
Regards
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Post by hoppy on Jul 7, 2016 10:14:12 GMT
You're right Jez. This is why it's worthwhile of putting a battery up front . By the way , I see your home port is in Corfu , I'm anchored up near Antipaxos for the moment. Regards Jez was on the same pier as me until I moved to another. Where are you heading? We might go to Lakka tomorrow. |
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Post by sailbleu on Jul 8, 2016 6:15:59 GMT
You're right Jez. This is why it's worthwhile of putting a battery up front . By the way , I see your home port is in Corfu , I'm anchored up near Antipaxos for the moment. Regards Jez was on the same pier as me until I moved to another. Where are you heading? We might go to Lakka tomorrow. Not sure where we go from here , have to be in Corfu bay by july 12 when the parents of our grandchildren ( whom are on the boat now ) arrive . Beaches is all we have seen for the last week , favorite spot for the kids as you . Maybe we will jump over to Mourtos or Platarias on the main land untill monday , all depend on the wind to sail back to Kerkyra. Regards |
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Post by hoppy on Jul 8, 2016 10:27:32 GMT
Jez was on the same pier as me until I moved to another. Where are you heading? We might go to Lakka tomorrow. Not sure where we go from here , have to be in Corfu bay by july 12 when the parents of our grandchildren ( whom are on the boat now ) arrive . Beaches is all we have seen for the last week , favorite spot for the kids as you . Maybe we will jump over to Mourtos or Platarias on the main land untill monday , all depend on the wind to sail back to Kerkyra. Regards The Admiral is due to fly out of Corfu on Sunday night, so we will spend 2 nights in Lakka before heading back to the marina. After that I have 7 or so weeks to sail solo to Fetiye Turkey |
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Post by jez on Jul 8, 2016 12:00:07 GMT
You're right Jez. This is why it's worthwhile of putting a battery up front . By the way , I see your home port is in Corfu , I'm anchored up near Antipaxos for the moment. Regards Jez was on the same pier as me until I moved to another. Where are you heading? We might go to Lakka tomorrow. I'm still in Gouvia Hoppy. I was in Lakka 2 weeks ago. Now in the 'Sunny UK' Sorry to hear your off to Turkey, looks like we wont meet up again this year. I'll PM Sailbieu. |
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