Water next to hull, aft cabin.

[earnric]

So this cannot be good. While replacing the winch breaker in the aft cabin of our 42 DS I noted water in the space between the while hull liner and the fiberglassed hull. This is the access port under the aft cabin (starboard) seat cushion. That is the blue freshwater line. See below.





I thought it might just be a leak in the water line, but the same thing is going on on the port side (under the seat).



You can't really see the water, but it's there too!!

Yikes! I was able to sponge it out of the starboard side, but I fear there is water lower, under the liner that leads to the bilge... does that make sense? What should I do at this point?!?! Has anyone seen this before?

Rick

42 DS

[ianf]

I Know this will sound a bit odd but it could be from leaking saloon "cat -eye" windows. I had a similar thing and traced it to water leaking past the window seals and running aft along the shelf below the window and making it's way down to the bilges.

I've had numerous leaks from various sources (windows, exhaust muffler, through hulls, domestic water pump etc) and I've found the first thing you need to do is to buy a TDS meter and determine whether or not the water is sea water or fresh as this can halve your search area. Note that you will get a higher reading for fresh water than normal as usually it has been mopped out of the bilges but it will be noticeably less than that for a test for sea water.

Hope this helps and keep us posted as this could be another one to add to my list   

[Mistroma]

The fact that it is on both sides and there are holes in the lining do mean it could be water in that area.

However, I'm pretty certain that the entire liner is bonded to the hull further up, preventing water running from a leak at the stern hull/deck joint. There is a hole in the lining under the propshaft and water can enter there. It invariably runs forward from there to the main bilge area. You would also need a high heel angle to persuade water to exit the holes in the locker.

My feeling is that it wouldn't be the most likely source. I wasn't certain if the shiny patch was water or just excess resin. If it's resin, then read the next paragraphs and I'll need to think some more if it is actually water inside the hole. You should check if it's salt or fresh as Ianf suggests and if it appears after rain or hosing the deck.

I had a leak in the aft cabin because Jeanneau had missed some sealant in the deck joint around a stanchion. It was an easy fix but the leak appeared at the head-lining. Again, an easy fix. It is a possibility but unlikely to happen on both sides at the same place and not show signs well above the lockers.

I'd consider it possible but would check elsewhere first.

I had a leak from one window in the saloon. Water pooled on the lining as it has a flat top ledge and some also ran down the face and into the locker. It was several years ago and easy enough to fix. I think the lining is the same around saloon and aft. cabin windows but saloon windows are partially hidden from view. I can't remember if I saw water in front of the lining or if it ran down behind. I do know that I left tissues along the top of the moulding to trace the leak.

I think the windows are a good place to start looking as mentioned in another post. I'd check the top of the liner and put tissue at intervals to trace a leak. There was plenty of access in the saloon but might be a bit more difficult in the aft cabin.


TIP:
I don't actually remember seeing a hole in that locker on the starboard side but haven't looked there for about 3 years. I assume it must be for the cockpit shower and wonder where the hot water pipe runs. Remember to drain the cockpit shower pipes when laying up for cold weather. Our dealer in Scotland told me that they always had a large box of cockpit shower fittings ready for spring. People didn't drain them and they were always damaged in freezing conditions.

[ales]

I had a leak for a long time (SO 43DS) and then realised it was from the transom shower. Check connection from a pipe to a hose and further on. My suggestion...

[earnric]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and suggestions on where to start. I should have mentioned that the boat is covered with the canvas cover but we have had snow here in Maryland lately. There was a lot of snow packed up on the starboard side of the cover and forced it down into the cockpit seating area. When I pushed all that snow away I noticed that it had begun seeping through the canvas cover and my teak cockpit sitting area was all wet. There was also snow packed along the port side of the boat. Along the gangway just outside the cockpit. Again sitting on the cover but it did soak through. Not to mention all the stanchion holes are there.

Maybe the exterior windows that are forward of the cockpit on the sides are leaking? The actual cockpit ports were fairly well protected. So I'm not sure how any water could come in from them.

Good to hear that the liner is bonded to the hall down lower. I was really worried that water might be all down in the lower recesses of the hull. 

Mistroma - that close up picture of the starboard hole in the AFT locker does have wet, shiny resin. But the hole was filled up halfway with standing water. I sponged it out.

Again thanks to everyone for the suggestions and clues. Not sure I'll be able to get out to the boat today however. The freezing rain is supposed to start in the next hour or so and I really don't feel like driving the 15 to 20 minutes in it to get to the slip!!!

Rick on Emma Rose

[earnric]

Here are some shots of the covered boat and the snow. The majority was on the starboard side.




Maybe the water is getting in along the outboard portlight, starboard side?

Rick

[Mistroma]

Rick,

The hull windows probably only leak when submerged on a beat. I don't think mine leaked with just rain.

The starboard window is above the galley and you'd see signs of water underneath if it leaked. Water wouldn't run down into the liner from there and you would find water on the ledge underneath if it was dripping down the back.

Water can get under the liner even though it is bonded at the top. There are several access points but they all result in it reaching the main bilge area eventually. It can pool in a few spots before overflowing to the bilge. It doesn't seem to relate to your problem as it is on the inner face of the liner.

You mention that the hole was half full of water and that indicates it is sealed underneath or there's a lot of water you couldn't reach. The latter doesn't make much sense as most parts under the liner drain back to the bilge eventually. I wouldn't expect water so high up the hull unless the hole was sealed to the hull just underneath.

I'm pretty certain my hot and cold cockpit shower pipes run aft behind the hanging locker and along the hull to the stern. I don't think there's a hole at that point in my 42DS.

Access to that area is pretty simple on my boat. The back panel in the hanging locker is only held by a few screws and pulls out easily (if you find the correct edge to pull ). The area further back is easier to expose. There are quite chunky Philips screws in plastic brackets holding up hinge down panels. Just open the locker above the seat and then work aft unscrewing the hidden clips on the shelf. The panels hinge down in exactly the same manner as the locker front. You can dab around with tissues to find wet spots.

I'm leaning towards a deck leak, probably a stanchion, near the hanging locker. Water would run down out of sight and then along the flat top of the liner until it reaches an obstruction and runs down the liner.

Removing the panel behind the hanging locker might be a good place to start looking. I think I used a very small allen key to help remove the panel. I could put the angled end into a screw hole and turn it to grip the panel. I'm afraid that I can't remember if I pulled the bottom or top first. It will probably jam if you get it wrong, just push it back and try another edge.

[earnric]

Ok, thanks so much Mistroma... That sound like a procedure I can follow. 

The panels hinge down in exactly the same manner as the locker front.

You are talking about the rectangular cubbies that are along the bed right? If i remember only 1 or 2 actually hinge down and open. The others are screwed shut so I guess that's what you are talking about: unscrew the plastic hidden brackets that hold the facing (the piece that would normally be the door) -- right?

Or are you talking about the back panels IN these rectangular cubbies?



Thx & Best,

Rick

[Mistroma]

Yes, the panel with the arrow hinges down because it is a locker. Jeanneau fitted hinges to the next 2 panels as well on my 2009 42DS. I'm assuming your panels are fitted in the same manner. They aren't lockers but open in the same way once you undo the hidden screws on top at either end. I think that I usually unscrew the vertical screws and leave the clips attached to the hinged panel as they are easy to access. The horizontal screws might be a little more difficult to undo. Just check which ones seem easiest.

I think that you need to watch the order with the locker and adjacent panel as they are slightly angled towards each other. You can't open both at the same time as they'll touch but you'll probably just leave the locker panel closed.

You should put something under the panels to support them. You just need something thick enough to stop the leverage on the hinges. I just use a piece of wood wrapped in a towel.

[Tafika II]

We have the same boat. I don't see where you confirmed if this was salt or freshwater. You don't need a meter...taste it! We have had only three freshwater leaks. Starboard side cat-eye window (rebedded) and the after scuppers behind the steering wheel area. The caulking was loose. Removed and replaced with Bytle tape and have been fine ever since. The final leak, mentioned above, was from the shower hose connector coming loose. Replaced the clamp and fixed it.
Saltwater egress had only one major problem...the exhaust muffler. There are many articles on this site, including mine.
Good luck!

[earnric]

Jan 10, 2022 18:56:55 GMT Tafika II said:

We have the same boat. I don't see where you confirmed if this was salt or freshwater. You don't need a meter...taste it! We have had only three freshwater leaks. Starboard side cat-eye window (rebedded) and the after scuppers behind the steering wheel area. The caulking was loose. Removed and replaced with Bytle tape and have been fine ever since. The final leak, mentioned above, was from the shower hose connector coming loose. Replaced the clamp and fixed it.
Saltwater egress had only one major problem...the exhaust muffler. There are many articles on this site, including mine.
Good luck!

Thanks much... I need to get back to the boat and check if it was fresh or salt -- but it may be harder here in the north-central Chesapeake... the water is pretty brackish!

Thanks for the other options to check!

Rick

[earnric]

Jan 10, 2022 13:55:14 GMT Mistroma said:

Yes, the panel with the arrow hinges down because it is a locker. Jeanneau fitted hinges to the next 2 panels as well on my 2009 42DS. I'm assuming your panels are fitted in the same manner. They aren't lockers but open in the same way once you undo the hidden screws on top at either end. I think that I usually unscrew the vertical screws and leave the clips attached to the hinged panel as they are easy to access. The horizontal screws might be a little more difficult to undo. Just check which ones seem easiest.

I think that you need to watch the order with the locker and adjacent panel as they are slightly angled towards each other. You can't open both at the same time as they'll touch but you'll probably just leave the locker panel closed.

You should put something under the panels to support them. You just need something thick enough to stop the leverage on the hinges. I just use a piece of wood wrapped in a towel.

Thanks again Mistroma... hopefully we'll start tracking it this weekend!

Rick

[shawnkaplan]

Related question. I have water on both sides under the floor of the aft cabin. Those small under floor spots where you walk in the aft cabin. Any ideas? I was wondering if this could be the bedding of the toe rails, deck fittings, etc. Reason im thinking this is I’ve seen some water/rust come in near the bow via a toe rail screw.

[ianf]

After years of trying to trace a leak I finally have dry bilges and I only found the problem by accident. Water would appear in odd places, sometimes while sailing and sometimes when motoring and I just couldn't make any sense of it. One day I was hunkered down in the lazarette servicing the generator when my wife decided swab down the aft seating area with buckets of water.

As soon as she started I noticed water leaking in via the emergency rudder cover. The rubber seal had become compressed over time. I sourced a 100mm ID X 6mm O-ring and that cured it.

The water would settle under the bilge lining out of sight and only become apparent in various places when the boat was moving.

[shawnkaplan]

Oct 12, 2023 11:20:59 GMT ianf said:

After years of trying to trace a leak I finally have dry bilges and I only found the problem by accident. Water would appear in odd places, sometimes while sailing and sometimes when motoring and I just couldn't make any sense of it. One day I was hunkered down in the lazarette servicing the generator when my wife decided swab down the aft seating area with buckets of water.

As soon as she started I noticed water leaking in via the emergency rudder cover. The rubber seal had become compressed over time. I sourced a 100mm ID X 6mm O-ring and that cured it.

The water would settle under the bilge lining out of sight and only become apparent in various places when the boat was moving.

Ian- yeah, I had that same issue previously as well. Found it because I spotted rust on the rudder post! That’s definitely one of the challenges of chasing these leeks down- we tend to be alone while working on the boat - and not normally in the rain. I could see the benefit of spraying a localized hose to help re-create them for sure!