dougm
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by dougm on Aug 29, 2021 3:55:49 GMT
Hello,
We’re seriously considering buying a 2016 SO 469 which has about 2000 hours on the engine.
Should we be concerned about reliability of the saildrive in future? I’ve read a few threads that complain about them, but the nature of forum posts is that problems are more visible…
I’m curious about the reputation these saildrives have in the community.
Regards,
Doug
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Post by moonshadow on Aug 29, 2021 13:16:41 GMT
My 469 has an SD60 saildrive and about 1700 hours on it. I do the routine maintenance and keep good zincs. Most of the problems I have read about saildrives seem to relate to the SD50 models. So far I’m happy with my set up. I have a flex fold propeller which also seems great in forward and reverse.
I would certainly check the saildrive visually and in action but for me it’s a great unit.
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Post by NZL50505 on Aug 30, 2021 0:47:06 GMT
I think the jury is still out. The SD50 has known issues but on the up-side they also have well-known fixes. And if you know what you’re doing you can go from a fully useless slipping SD50 to a fully fixed SF50 in a morning. I have done this. In contrast the most recent post 2017 SD60s seems to have a better design to start with but how easily it can be fixed ‘in the field’ if required is less clear.
So in summary, if you like everything else about the boat I wouldn’t let either a SD50 or 60 put you off buying it - but do your background research and make sure you have a clear plan to tackle problems if & when any problems occur. This might for example involve talking to your local servicing agent about their experience with servicing / fixing SD60s.
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Post by jy51 on Sept 7, 2021 8:44:35 GMT
Hello, We’re seriously considering buying a 2016 SO 469 which has about 2000 hours on the engine. Should we be concerned about reliability of the saildrive in future? I’ve read a few threads that complain about them, but the nature of forum posts is that problems are more visible… I’m curious about the reputation these saildrives have in the community. Regards, Doug Unfortunately, sail-drive failures tend to be slipping cone clutches rather than leaking rubber diaphragms or oil seals which are easier to detect. It is recommended that cone clutches are replaced after a fixed period of time, most ignore these recommendations. 2000 hours is well past a cones recommended life and unless you have written proof that it has been replaced, now is the time to have it done. This is not an expensive job if you ignore Yanmar and view all the videos on YouTube that explain the procedure, however after 2000 hours I would seriously recommend that you replace the oil seals top and bottom, diaphragm and cone clutch. |
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Post by NZL50505 on Sept 11, 2021 4:06:02 GMT
Hello, We’re seriously considering buying a 2016 SO 469 which has about 2000 hours on the engine. Should we be concerned about reliability of the saildrive in future? I’ve read a few threads that complain about them, but the nature of forum posts is that problems are more visible… I’m curious about the reputation these saildrives have in the community. Regards, Doug Unfortunately, sail-drive failures tend to be slipping cone clutches rather than leaking rubber diaphragms or oil seals which are easier to detect. It is recommended that cone clutches are replaced after a fixed period of time, most ignore these recommendations. 2000 hours is well past a cones recommended life and unless you have written proof that it has been replaced, now is the time to have it done. This is not an expensive job if you ignore Yanmar and view all the videos on YouTube that explain the procedure, however after 2000 hours I would seriously recommend that you replace the oil seals top and bottom, diaphragm and cone clutch. Sorry but this is fully wrong advice for the OP because he is asking about the SD60 (see title) and you are confusing it with the SD50. Your advice about clutch cones relates to the SD50… whereas the SD60 has clutch plates (not cones). Both SD50s and SD60s have had clutch issues but for totally different reasons… SD50s are prone to slipping clutch cones for a variety of reasons which are well documented and fixable with a relatively straightforward procedure. There is a basic fix known as ‘cone lapping’ which can be done for minimal cost, takes about 2-3hrs if you know what you’re doing and does not require you to separate the engine from the SD unit. This generally lasts about 500 hrs before needing to be repeated. Then there is a more permanent fix which includes ‘cone lapping’ plus replacing part of the gear selector control, adding a new thrust bearing and an oil expansion breather tube. There is a complete kit available that gives you all the parts you need but this is a more involved exercise and is best undertaken by an experienced mechanic or only the most competent DIYers. This is a permanent fix usually curing the slipping problem forever. Finally, whatever state your SD50 is in you should be using GL4 lubricant not GL5 which contributes to the cone slipping issue. The SD60 is a totally different issue which is known as the ‘Ramp Angle Problem’. This affects many units right up until mid-2017 and is caused by the mechanism that engages the clutch plates (not cones) to not engage the plates tightly enough because it was machined at the wrong angle. This creates gradual slipping & premature wear. If caught early the problem can be delayed by adjustments to the gear selector but eventually catches up with you again. The permanent fix for this is more extensive requiring engine to be separated from gearbox and moved forward so the entire clutch assembly can be accessed. Some fixes involve replacing parts, other the entire top unit. Approaches vary by dealer and coverage of cost by Yanmar also varies. This problem was only relatively recently fully identified and addressed. Units post-2017 are apparently sorted. If you are buying either a SD50 or SD60 boat you should ask about service history including evidence of any of this work to tackle these known problems. If there is no clear info then assume you will need to tackle this stuff at some stage. And given your engine hours probably sooner rather than later. |
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Post by jy51 on Sept 11, 2021 6:47:41 GMT
Unfortunately, sail-drive failures tend to be slipping cone clutches rather than leaking rubber diaphragms or oil seals which are easier to detect. It is recommended that cone clutches are replaced after a fixed period of time, most ignore these recommendations. 2000 hours is well past a cones recommended life and unless you have written proof that it has been replaced, now is the time to have it done. This is not an expensive job if you ignore Yanmar and view all the videos on YouTube that explain the procedure, however after 2000 hours I would seriously recommend that you replace the oil seals top and bottom, diaphragm and cone clutch. Sorry but this is fully wrong advice for the OP because he is asking about the SD60 (see title) and you are confusing it with the SD50. Your advice about clutch cones relates to the SD50… whereas the SD60 has clutch plates (not cones). Both SD50s and SD60s have had clutch issues but for totally different reasons… SD50s are prone to slipping clutch cones for a variety of reasons which are well documented and fixable with a relatively straightforward procedure. There is a basic fix known as ‘cone lapping’ which can be done for minimal cost, takes about 2-3hrs if you know what you’re doing and does not require you to separate the engine from the SD unit. This generally lasts about 500 hrs before needing to be repeated. Then there is a more permanent fix which includes ‘cone lapping’ plus replacing part of the gear selector control, adding a new thrust bearing and an oil expansion breather tube. There is a complete kit available that gives you all the parts you need but this is a more involved exercise and is best undertaken by an experienced mechanic or only the most competent DIYers. This is a permanent fix usually curing the slipping problem forever. Finally, whatever state your SD50 is in you should be using GL4 lubricant not GL5 which contributes to the cone slipping issue. The SD60 is a totally different issue which is known as the ‘Ramp Angle Problem’. This affects many units right up until mid-2017 and is caused by the mechanism that engages the clutch plates (not cones) to not engage the plates tightly enough because it was machined at the wrong angle. This creates gradual slipping & premature wear. If caught early the problem can be delayed by adjustments to the gear selector but eventually catches up with you again. The permanent fix for this is more extensive requiring engine to be separated from gearbox and moved forward so the entire clutch assembly can be accessed. Some fixes involve replacing parts, other the entire top unit. Approaches vary by dealer and coverage of cost by Yanmar also varies. This problem was only relatively recently fully identified and addressed. Units post-2017 are apparently sorted. If you are buying either a SD50 or SD60 boat you should ask about service history including evidence of any of this work to tackle these known problems. If there is no clear info then assume you will need to tackle this stuff at some stage. And given your engine hours probably sooner rather than later. Yes, I stand corrected, I was referring to the earlier sail drive which I mistakenly thought he had, however, I do not think you can say I am fully wrong, I stand by the comment that many people ignore their sail-drive and do not carry out the servicing and checks recommended. Even oil changes are sometimes incorrectly done, as air bubbles trapped in the system can themselves result in serious damage. Likewise you can not say that my recommendation to replace oil seals and diaphragm after 2000 hrs is "fully" wrong. |
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Post by NZL50505 on Sept 11, 2021 8:47:34 GMT
Hah! Ok so “fully” might have been a bit OTT and obviously touched a nerve! Of course diaphragms and seals need replacing periodically. Diaphragms are much less to do with hours but more related to years in the water. Most people aim for every 5-7 yrs but I know boats at 10yrs+ no issues. And I have literally never heard of a boat sinking because of a failed diaphragm. They are tough with double-skins and a water sensor between them that will trigger an alarm sound on the dashboard if you get ingress. Oil seals generally every 2yrs if all going normally but keep a very close eye on oil level and consistency in the SD unit to make sure you don’t have water ingress into the oil - it’s turns gelatinous. If you have a SD50 these are especially prone for the following reason… when the unit gets hot (eg running at fast cruise for hours at a time) the oil of course gets hot and expands. The SD50 has inadequate expansion space resulting in oil being pushed out through the seals into the ocean. Then when it cools down again it contracts and the vacuum sucks sea water back in through the compromised seals. The way to avoid this is as follows… See picture below if SD50 unit. Unscrew the plug (1) and screw into the hole adaptor plug (3). These come as standard in the SD50 maintenance kit but if you’ve lost yours you can order from Yanmar (part SZ60: 196311-92960). Then securely connect a length of clear hose (approx. 1m) to it and run vertically up as high as possible into the engine room and secure (place a piece of breathable gauze over hose end to avoid dust ingress). This will now allow oil to expand up the hose when hot and drop back down when cool. Your oil seals are now safe again and should only need replacing every 2 years or so as preventative maintenance.  |
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Post by jy51 on Sept 11, 2021 12:04:27 GMT
No it didn’t touch a nerve, thankfully I am very thick skinned, and also the first to own up to my errors.
This not the first time I have made mistakes posting on this forum and am always pleased to learn something new by them.
However, in this instance I simply replied to your statement because I felt your comment, « fully wrong » was dismissive of everything I said, and felt I should at least defend some of my comments, that would be the natural thing to do, wouldn’t it?
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Post by NZL50505 on Sept 11, 2021 23:12:27 GMT
I agree you are fully right. 😊
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Post by sunrise4 on Sept 12, 2021 15:35:07 GMT
jy51, You mention this regarding SD50/60 oil changes: 'Even oil changes are sometimes incorrectly done, as air bubbles trapped in the system can themselves result in serious damage.' The SD60 manual calls out filling oil from the top where as the SD50 does not. After an oil change (from the top) on my SD60 I briefly run the engine in gear, then let it sit for a few days to let the air bubbles work themselves out. Is this good enough or do you have a better recommendation? Thanks!
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Post by sunrise4 on Sept 12, 2021 15:41:23 GMT
NZL50505, Great info regarding the the saildrives! Thank you! My SO419 was made in the US in mid-2016. How can I find out if my SD60 saildrive has the 'Ramp Angle Problem'? Could you share more about the gear selector adjustment, or where could I find out more about it?
Thanks!
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