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Post by rxc on Nov 10, 2021 20:13:47 GMT
I have a vented loop for both of the heads in my boat. The aft one is currently abandoned in place because that head now has a fresh water flush, but the original vent is still there, connected to nothing.
The vents are there to make sure that you don't syphon the ocean into the boat via the head pump. They have to be cleaned periodically, which is a PITA because you can't see them and have to do everything by feel.
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Post by rene460 on Nov 10, 2021 23:42:45 GMT
Hi rxc,
Thanks for that correction. It must be some sort of demand valve that relies on the low pressure from the pump to open. Not surprising that such a device might be a bit prone to blockage from normal sea water. Certainly a normal check valve won’t do the job.
How do you tell when it needs servicing?
I’m still sure that I don’t have one, but will be getting back to the boat next week after a long lockdown, and will try with mirrors etc to check again.
In the mean time I will still always make sure the lever is in the pump put position as an extra precaution.
Rene460
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Post by rene460 on Nov 16, 2021 11:41:20 GMT
Just a quick follow up on the issue of vented loops.
Finally back on board after our long lockdown. Great to find everything ok so far. Will run the engine tomorrow and go for a cruise to get the engine up to temperature and to run the hull through the water. Hopefully it will all be ok. Been six months since the last run. I usually work on ensuring two months max.
Carefully traced the sea water inlet to the toilet. The line does loop up to touch the underside of the deck, close to the side of the hull, but no venting provision of any kind, just plain hose. This would still provide a siphon break of sorts for those who learned in dinghies that flat is fast, but I would not like to test it on a long sail with the rail in the water. Clearly different installations have been used on different models over time.
It would be interesting to see if anyone has a third alternative, and worth researching devices that would be suitable if a vented loop is desired.
I did find the original Jabsco installation instructions supplied with my boat. It clearly calls for a vented loop at least 30 cm above the heeled water line, with no further information on what device is used for the vented loop.
rene460
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Post by rxc on Nov 16, 2021 15:13:22 GMT
Vented loops have a small rubber "check valve" that, in its normal state, is slightly open to the atmosphere. When you suck on the hose to flush the toilet, the check valve closes so that you don't suck air into the hose and can pump water up over the hump of the loop. When you stop pumping, the pressure equalizes across the check valve, which opens and admits air to "break the siphon".
They are clever and useful, but need to be cleaned when they accumulate dirt or salt crystals (or fur, if you have long-haired cats onboard). The check valve is smaller than the tip of your little finger and has to be removed and inserted by feel. If you drop it into the bilge, you are truly out of luck, with a major job replacing the entire loop. I don't know where one would buy a replacement rubber valve.
When you notice that there is a lot of air in the incoming flow stream, or it takes a while to start the flow, it is time to clean them.
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jj2
Junior Member
Posts: 14
Jeanneau Model: 2002 43 DS
Yacht Name: Options
Country: USA
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Post by jj2 on Nov 17, 2021 1:28:05 GMT
Hi Rene,
Thanks for the input. Yes, certainly much to learn and have fun… We’re doing our share of both and it’s been great! So far…..
I’ll listen to your advice and be mindful of the diabolically clever device, compounded in our case, as it is electric instead of manual….
All the best,
JJ
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jj2
Junior Member
Posts: 14
Jeanneau Model: 2002 43 DS
Yacht Name: Options
Country: USA
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Post by jj2 on Nov 17, 2021 1:50:31 GMT
Hi RXC,
From all what I’ve read and previous boats I agree with you that a vented loop is normal and customary as a safety element.
On our boat the intake hose runs a loop up high like Rene described but without the vented device. I have the feeling Jeanneau installed them like this originally and can’t figure out why they didn’t install the vented loop… On our boat both heads are electric not that it would matter if they were manual, I would think, unless the electric heads have a device impeding the siphon effect. I’m not sure about that since we never before had electric heads….
It seems some of us have the proper vents and other’s do not, yet none of the non vented boats have sunk in all these years… So, are they really needed?
I’d like to understand this….
Thanks!
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Post by rxc on Dec 7, 2021 20:27:06 GMT
I have never had a problem with the vented loops. I imagine that there is likely a standard boat construction code that requires them during construction. Either a national code, or insurance company requirements, based on an accident or interesting event that cost someone a lot of money. What that means is that if you don't have one because it was removed, and your boat sinks because of it, the insurance company may decline to pay you for it, because the boat has been modified from its original configuration. I have seen insurance policies with this statement, so changes to the boat configuration need to be made with care.
It is possible that your boat has some other device to accomplish the same thing, or else the heads in your boat are located in such a way that it is not possible to siphon water back into the boat. Or maybe your boat was built before the construction code required a vent, and the expectation was that you would shut the thru-hulls every time you used the head. I have seen at least one boat where that was the case, back in the early 80s. It was a PITA, but may have been considered to be very normal at that time.
On some ships, use of the head can be a bit intimidating because of the need to align valves properly.....
Ahhh, just noticed that you have a 43DS, which means that you should have a vent. Maybe a local modification, for some reason.
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jj2
Junior Member
Posts: 14
Jeanneau Model: 2002 43 DS
Yacht Name: Options
Country: USA
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Post by jj2 on Dec 8, 2021 23:32:32 GMT
Hi RXC,
Thanks for your input, it makes sense to me to have them…
And now you have me thinking about installing them soon….
I’ll try contacting Jeanneau also to see if they would provide the original plumbing plans.
Thanks for the help!
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Post by mesteve on Feb 17, 2022 20:01:14 GMT
Does anyone have the ability to get measurements off of this photo based on the fitting sizes maybe? This is the one that was done here on the boards by Galena I think many years ago…
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Post by andreshs1 on Feb 24, 2022 14:24:11 GMT
Hi all
Giving the conversation a twist....
has anyone considered fitting a holding tank in the empty bilge space next to the water tank?
I am trying to figure out where to fit one of those 3kp wall mounted washing machines, and my wife is obsessed to fit it in the shower cabinet, where the 43DS by default has the holding tank (mine, HK version does not have a holding tank)
so, I was thinking on fitting the holding tank in the empty bilge space, so she gets her washing machine
any ideas? tips? concerns?
Cheers
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Post by andreshs1 on Feb 24, 2022 14:27:22 GMT
Does anyone have the ability to get measurements off of this photo based on the fitting sizes maybe? This is the one that was done here on the boards by Galena I think many years ago… I know that some members do have this type of tank, I was thinking on fitting one, and I contacted Sophie Whitehead <sophiew@tek-tanks.com>, the quote has 650GBP + shipping. That being said, they also sell the technical drawing, you might want to get that and ask a local company to make one for you cheers
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svmasarap
New Member
Posts: 6
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 43ds
Yacht Name: Masarap
Home Port: Zwolle
Country: Netherlands
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Post by svmasarap on Feb 24, 2022 23:51:59 GMT
Oh dear, I fear I am a little late to step in this thread… In our 43ds both holding tanks leaked and were rotten. Both tanks were identical and I had them made in “plastic”.
I removed the old tanks measured them made a “drawing” and sent it to a fairly local producer. They made a proper drawing and had some suggestions that I approved. They produced the tanks and I installed them without any problem. The only thing I had to change is that a plastic tank needs support underneath. It can not hang free. Support is no problem since a rib of the hull is just underneath. I filled the gab with a hard expanding foam. Very happy with the result.
Payed €785 for the two tanks including all the appendages and gaskets. drocom.nl if your in the Netherlands….
I still have the drawing and would add it here, if I knew how. I could email if someone is interested, just let me know.
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Post by andreshs1 on Feb 24, 2022 23:59:01 GMT
Hi there From a PC hog should be able to just drag and drop the file in the chat
I'll PM you with my email anyway
Thanks
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Post by andreshs1 on Feb 25, 2022 5:07:00 GMT
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Post by boltnbrew on Mar 3, 2023 6:24:16 GMT
An old thread- but my guess is that it is more relevant now than it was then! My question is whether anyone has found a suitable HDPE tank source in North America for either forward, aft or both waste holding tanks? Thanks!!
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Post by andreshs1 on Mar 6, 2023 15:53:25 GMT
Hi, I only found www.tek-tanks.com/They have the models for the 43DS, I am hoping to get one, but I struggle with the idea of the cost and amount of work to get it installed… Cheers
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Post by muz on Mar 21, 2023 7:30:01 GMT
Just new to this forum. Have been reading this thread and would like to download the pdf plans previously put up. Unfortunately can't open the file. Would like to see if I can get locally made in (Queensland) Australia preferably before I remove the old ones.
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Post by boltnbrew on Mar 21, 2023 16:06:51 GMT
Hi, I only found www.tek-tanks.com/They have the models for the 43DS, I am hoping to get one, but I struggle with the idea of the cost and amount of work to get it installed… Cheers Unfortunately, Tek-Tank will not ship to North America. Does anyone recommend a source on this side of the Atlantic? Thanks in advance!
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Post by Mistroma on Mar 21, 2023 16:41:07 GMT
Just new to this forum. Have been reading this thread and would like to download the pdf plans previously put up. Unfortunately can't open the file. Would like to see if I can get locally made in (Queensland) Australia preferably before I remove the old ones. I just clicked on the link and it downloaded without a problem. I've opened the Naamloos 5.pdf file and it looks OK. I don't think you can download it without logging in. Perhaps theirs a similar limitation for very new members. I'd expect that to sort itself out in a few days if that's the case. I can upload the file to my own website temporarily and give a link if you still have problems.
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Post by muz on Mar 21, 2023 22:20:48 GMT
Thanks for the tip. Everything worked on the next attempt, probably a newbie thing. Will confirm the dimensions next time on the boat for both forward and rear tanks then see if I can track down a local fabricator. Main thing for me was to understand what goes on inside the tank with baffles etc. It looks like the pump out tube will need to be fairly robust with a heavy walled pipe and some reinforcing at the socket. Everything else pretty straight forward.
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Post by tsenator on Jul 14, 2023 19:02:31 GMT
Thanks for the tip. Everything worked on the next attempt, probably a newbie thing. Will confirm the dimensions next time on the boat for both forward and rear tanks then see if I can track down a local fabricator. Main thing for me was to understand what goes on inside the tank with baffles etc. It looks like the pump out tube will need to be fairly robust with a heavy walled pipe and some reinforcing at the socket. Everything else pretty straight forward. Muz, if you find a source for these tanks in North America, please let us know ! I'm sure a lot of us would probably be needing something some day
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Post by andreshs1 on Jul 25, 2023 14:20:20 GMT
Back to the topic
I am sure that many of you have holding tanks installed
OK, my boat came without holding tanks...yes, strange. But in Hong Kong there are no facilities to empty the tanks and it is not required by law to have one. Yet, it is NOT nice when you are sitting in the cockpit and suddenly you start seeing all the floaters... So I am going to get the one from Tek Tanks, but I was hoping that someone will be able to share photos on how the tank looks installed, vents, attachment pints, etc
Thanks in advance Regards Andres
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wheelsucker
Full Member
Posts: 33
Jeanneau Model: 2002 Sun Odyssey 43DS
Home Port: Seattle
Country: USA
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Post by wheelsucker on Sept 1, 2023 17:39:28 GMT
Hi Andresh,
I have the OEM stainless steel ones installed. I'll do my best to take pictures for you. Do you just want the aft tank or also the forward tank?
For those who have had issues with the stainless steel welds, were there overt external signs of corrosion or was there an "unhappy discovery" with little warning? Previous owner had the holding tanks cleaned (not sure what was done), so not sure how long that would be good for. We keep the tanks empty unless actively cruising. The Admiral would be very unhappy if we had a leak.
Thanks.
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Post by Charlie-Bravo on Sept 1, 2023 19:57:42 GMT
Stainless welds will not give clues externally of imminent failure, only signs when failure begins , and may be fine for many years if welded properly at production. If you want a clue to impending doom of an unhappy Admiral, you will need to peek inside the tank ……. endoscope insertion into a freshly flushed tank would be better than a torch through an inspection hatch, as you can keep your face away from it, and if the welds inside look like burnt toast, then one day a tech tank might be on the shopping list (re my earlier post on this thread) , if looking lovely, the Admiral should be happy for quite some time.
CB
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