Watermaker Placement in 469/479

[Evening Star]

All,
I am preparing to add a watermaker to my 2019 479 in preparation for long term cruising.  I have a GENSET so am leaning to a high output 120 V system but not made a final decision on 12V/120V or manufacturer.  I am looking for any advice on where to instal the system.  This boat has a relatively shallow grid so while I could put the membrane assembly in a bilge pocket, I can not put the filters there and I am not sure it is smart putting the pumps in the bilges.  I am in Annapolis, MD headed to the Caribbean for 2-3 years.

Any input from lessons learned would be most appreciated as I know I am not the first person to do this.  

Thanks very much.

[sunrise4]

I'm in the process of installing a Cruise RO water maker on my SO 419, primarily behind the starboard-side settee cushions.  My goal was to 'hide' the water maker parts as much as possible, keeping them out of the bilge, have them accessible when needed, and not take up valuable storage space.  The attached picture may give you an idea for space on your SO 479.  Regarding Cruise RO, I can say that Rich and Charlie, the co-owners, are very responsive to inquires and questions, and their water maker parts are of top quality.

Enjoy the process!

[saileasy]

I’m also impressed with Rich and his watermakers. Spoke with him at the San Francisco boat show three years ago. What capacity Cruise RO are you installing?

Thanks,

Ted (“Saileasy”)

[sunrise4]

Saileasy,

I decided to install the 13 GPH 12 VDC Cruise RO water maker as it can be handled by our battery/alternator/solar system without pushing its limits and because I don't carry a generator on board. 

For the curious, the 13 GPH uses a 0.5 HP motor (Leeson 12V DC 108047.00) coupled to a 0.8 GPH pump (General Pump EWM0815C) and a 2.5”x 40” DOW Filmtec® RO Membrane (SW30-2540).

For details about the system contact Rich (phone number at www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/dc-water-maker) and he will send you their very detailed manual, or see his excellent how-to videos on YouTube.

Cheers!

[Evening Star]

Sunrise 4,  Thanks for the picture.  Sadly, the 479 does not have room behind the settee bench (PT Side) as I have my 110 power breakers /GENSET controls and fuze bar located there.  12V board and water manifold/pump on the STBD side.

Saileasy,  Looking at Cruise RO, Seapower Pro, Sheneker Zen and Rainman installed for now.  Undecided on 12V/110V.  Location of the installation will partially drive the decision.  

[saileasy]

I believe the best fit for my vessel is the Cruise RO 30 gph setup.

[saileasy]

Sunrise 4,

Are you going to install the Cruise RO “Unattended Automatic Fresh Water Flushing” optional unit with your system?

“Saileasy”

[sunrise4]

Saileasy,

I'm not installing the auto-flush at this time as I don't know if I will have a need for it. However I'm setting it up with the manual valve per Figure 13 in the Cruise RO manual so that the auto-flush solenoid valve and timer can easily be added later.

Any thoughts on the Auto-divert TDS valve?  Would be nice to have but is an expensive option, apparently due to the cost of the 3-way valve.

Cheers!

[saileasy]

Sunrise 4,

Since our home is some distance away from where our boat is berthed now and where we expect to keep her this fall, the Automatic Flushing module is a justifiable expense. I’ll opt for the Automatic Product Water High TDS Divert Option as well.

Ted (“Saileasy”)

P.S. I sent you a note with contact information in the Personal Messages “mailbox.”

[moonshadow]

I have no experience with automated Watermaker systems. Mine is a manual portable rainman unit that I will likely mount somewhere before my next long cruise. But... when traveling (mainly in the Bahamas, if that makes a difference) I hear more people on cruising net asking for parts for automatic functions than I expected to. Control boards etc. maybe manual and simple is worth considering?
One reason I like high output Watermaker is that it is less frequently that I have to have the noise of the pump. Two 4ft long membranes is hard to install. I wonder if the same result can be had with 4 of the shorter membranes?

[Evening Star]

Saileasy,    Where are you installing your system?

Really good point on the automatic systems.  Long term maintainability will always have a vote in my eyes.   

[saileasy]

Evening Star,

The Cruise RO modular set-up affords options. My hunch is I’ll probably divide most of the units separate parts in the aft lazarettes.

“Saileasy”

[Trevor]

Hello Evening Star,

I loved reading of other peoples watermaker experiences when leading up to our installation. If you can just pickup one little thing it can be very helpful. In that spirit I present this story of our experience with a watermaker.

www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/watermakerinstall.html

Regards,

Trevor

[saileasy]

Trevor,

Your watermaker “memoir” was delightfully thorough and informative. 

Thank You,

Ted (“Seaseasy”)

[ianf]

I thought it was time to share this. The agent in the UK was supposed to send this to the manufacturer in the USA and I thought I might at least get some sort of an apology. As I have not received any sort of a reply you may wish to read my letter below.


The Spectra Ventura VT200TC Experience


I purchased the above unit on 17/06/2020 and it was shipped to my yacht’s location in Greece and arrived well packaged and apparently in good condition.

On opening the boxes and inspecting the various items I found an odd shard of plastic at the bottom of the box housing the feed pump module. On closer inspection it became apparent that the elbow fitting exiting the fresh water flush solenoid valve had completely sheared off the valve leaving the threaded portion inside the valve. Whilst I was waiting for a replacement part I eventually managed to resolve the problem myself with a combination of more robust brass fittings. That said, I believe the reason the elbow failed was due to the poor geometry of the fitting connection to the overly rigid short section of plastic pipe exerting undue strain on the fitting.

Having resolved this problem I continued with the installation until I ran into the next hurdle.


The accumulator pack and attendant fittings.

The fittings intended to screw into the Tee piece were completely the wrong size despite the included component checklist stating otherwise. Again, while waiting for the correct parts to arrive I managed to source the correct parts locally and continue with the installation.


Product Sampling Valve.

This valve was only supplied with one fixing clip instead of two which meant I had to fashion my own fixings.


Control Box

The control box was not supplied with a fixing bracket


Reverse Osmosis Unit

Once everything was installed I began the commissioning process but had to abort it when I discovered a major leak from the RO unit. On close inspection I discovered the leak was coming from a split in the factory fitted check valve. It was caused by too much PTFE tape and over tightening of the fitting at the factory. The unit was supposed to be tested before shipping but I fail to see how this could have been done without the leak being detected. I then had to wait for nearly a week at anchor for an engineer to come to me to fit a replacement. When the engineer eventually arrived he said he was too tired to fit it. By this time my patience had run out and I told him to give it to me and I fitted it properly.


Commissioning

During the commissioning process for the 200 Connect version the manual said the feed pump should run automatically but it didn’t (clearly a software problem) This was overcome by switching the control box to manual for that part of commissioning and then returning it to auto to finish the process.


Storage

Prior to leaving the boat I flushed the system with SC1 only to find with a final flourish that the flushing hose push fit connector was leaking. It looks as though the ferrule was never crimped



Observations

The manual states the only calibration required was for the filter condition and that the salinity and product flow were calibrated at the factory. However the unit appeared to be producing product water at nearly twice the maximum designed output and at a salinity of half the value of my portable TDS meter so clearly no factory calibration had been done.

Cables from the RO Unit from the diverter valve, flow meter and salinity tester all have to travel back to the control unit so why are the cables different lengths?



Summary

I paid top dollar for what I thought was going to be the Rolls Royce of water makers. Although I’m sure the unit is a good unit, in my case it has been totally let down by sloppy factory quality control and a total lack, as far as I can make out, of any calibration or testing.

I am currently debating with myself whether or not I have a duty to put my experiences on my various sailing forums that I contribute to as a warning to others. The whole experience has had a major detrimental effect on my summer cruising plans and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone else.

[sunrise4]

ianf,

Wow... I'm sorry to hear about your disappointing experience with your Spectra water maker and the non-response from your dealer and Spectra.  I had seriously considered the Spectra water maker as I thought of Spectra as a top-notch company.

You probably know that Spectra is now owned by Katadyn, with headquarters about 15 miles NE of Zürich, Switzerland.  I'd contact the Katadyn headquarters directly to get some form of recognition and enumeration for your troubles.  I don't think the Swiss would let this kind of reputation stand on their record. (I should know as I'm not too far from there)

Good luck!

[Trevor]

ianf,

That is a very disappointing story. It is just so difficult to find the various bits and pieces locally. I know that the various threads on these components is just so hard to match. To have purchased a new unit and then have to scrounge around to get bits and pieces to get it operational is simply not good enough.

I hope it finally works well but it certainly does leave a very bad impression.

Trevor

[ianf]

Trevor/sunrise4

Thanks for your empathy. Just to let you know that when I eventually sorted out all the problems and commissioned the system it continued to work perfectly for the rest of the season.

The reason I decided to buy this unit was because of the small footprint and the low power requirement. It fits neatly under the floor and the only obvious indication there is a water maker on board is the LCD master control unit next to the Scheiber panel.