Sail Drive Sea Cock

[mattm]

All,
New owner winterizing 2014 439 sail drive.  The sea cock is in unbelievably difficult place to access and appears to be a small gate valve.  It does not turn easily, and given the relative age of the boat did not want to man-handle whilst in the water.  Is there some form of locking mechanism, or should this turn freely?  I noted on-line that people replace with ball valves, but wow how do you get to it without ripping apart the stateroom?

[puravida35]

The sail drive seawater valve on my 2016 SO439 is a ball valve (1/4 turn with lever) from factory. Sounds like you have something different?

Anyway, mine gets exercised at least monthly and it does take some force to close and open.

[Chris Meyer]

Dec 5, 2020 16:15:00 GMT puravida35 said:

The sail drive seawater valve on my 2016 SO439 is a ball valve (1/4 turn with lever) from factory. Sounds like you have something different?

Anyway, mine gets exercised at least monthly and it does take some force to close and open.

On my 389, it takes a number of turns to open and close.   Not hard to turn, just requires reaching your hand way down to reach it.

The boards around saildrive are removable if that makes it easier to reach.

[mattm]

I was very surprised to see anything but a quarter turn ball valve on a modern boat.  I will wait until it is on the hard and put a tool on it to free it up.  I noticed a small spring, made me wonder if this was some funny locking mechanism.  Note, it is a 4" stainless, 1/4" diameter rod, i.e. 2" lever.  I should have taken a picture.  

[Chris Meyer]

Dec 5, 2020 19:40:59 GMT mattm said:

I was very surprised to see anything but a quarter turn ball valve on a modern boat.  I will wait until it is on the hard and put a tool on it to free it up.  I noticed a small spring, made me wonder if this was some funny locking mechanism.  Note, it is a 4" stainless, 1/4" diameter rod, i.e. 2" lever.  I should have taken a picture.  

There is a wire retainer that you have to flip up.  I suspect it is a device to keep it from coming loose.

[jdl01]

You open the gate valve just enough turns that the wire retainer clicks into place. I would not recommend opening it beyond this point. This gate valve on the 20 series leg came this way from the Marion factory. I don't
know if there is a stop at the end of the valve winder, hence the importance of the retainer spring to counteract loosening from vibration.

[mattm]

Thanks for all the comments.  I have been waiting for the boat to be on the hard before aggressively turning.  I am able to turn the seacock 1/2 turn, 180 degrees.  I am worried that either I cannot fully close, or possibly not fully open during use.  I expected either 1/4 turn, or many turns.  Does anybody have a saildrive with a small post lever sea-cock that has full motion of 1/2 turn?  This is on a 2014 439.  Thanks

[sailingabe41ds]

hi..
i have a 2015 41ds. when the lever is in the direction of the hose...its open. when i turn it counter clockwise 90 degrees or 1/4 turn it is closed. it stops and i can not turn it any more. maybe during construction different types of valves are used depending on availability.

abe

[ohana]

Hi, do you have a SD50 or SD60 drive?  My original SD50 had an awkward-to-turn valve, whereas my replacement SD60 has a simple gate valve, far easier.

But in any case, you will be able to screw out this old valve and replace it with a gate valve. I suggest you either chat to a Yanmar dealer or go to a good marine supplier. They should be able to advise the thread type and supply parts made from correct materials. You dont say where you are? But if UK, or access to UK, then I would recommend ASAP Supplies 
 

[mattm]

Thanks for feedback.  I am in the US and wish it had the classic quarter turn valve.  Access is very difficult and frankly everything looks in good shape, surprised this is possibly inoperable.  I was hoping to confirm if 180 degree turn is the full operating rotation and leave well enough alone.



  Attachment Deleted

[sailingabe41ds]

Hi..

Why not turn the engine on with the valve in different positions and see if water comes out the exhaust?  The other alternative is to remove the hose from the water pump intake (have a plug ready) to see if water comes out with the valve in different positions. 
Lastly,  my access to my valve is also difficult.  The big handle on my ball valve really helps, so when you get a chance replace your valve.
BTW, I am no expert,  but it looks like a gate valve as jdl01 suggested that you keep turning till it closes like a faucet. Whatever it is.....I would change it.  It looks flimsy and something that might snap when you least want it to. 
Abe

[ohana]

Take a look at this thread     www.myhanse.com/sd50-seacock_topic8123.html

Another alternative is to remove this existing valve, put blanking plug in the hole and fit a completely separate seacock somewhere nearby. 

One other comment - I had the same issue on an older Volvo Saildrive 120S, and bought a kit to change it to a simple gate valve. The only difficult part was removing the existing valve - took a lot of force!

[jlasail]

Jan 15, 2021 13:32:51 GMT mattm said:

Thanks for feedback.  I am in the US and wish it had the classic quarter turn valve.  Access is very difficult and frankly everything looks in good shape, surprised this is possibly inoperable.  I was hoping to confirm if 180 degree turn is the full operating rotation and leave well enough alone.  View Attachment

Thanks for sharing the picture. It is indeed quite surprising that Jeanneau provided such different valves for similar boats. I have a 2014 SO409 with SD60 and I have a ball valve -1/4 turn type on it. My boat was assembled in Marion SC, USA. It is still a bit difficult to access but at least it closes and open smoothly.
I would definitely replace it as indicated by other members.

JL

[ohana]

It will not be the fault of jeanneau, it is whatever Yanmar provided as part of the engine/saildrive package. It’s a Yanmar issue!

[mattm]

Further research revealed this is a common problem across other boat mfgr's with Yanmar SD50.  It is a Kingston cock that is supposed to turn 10 full turns, replacement $350.  Many concerns with other's if the valve is indeed fully open, valve frozen open alot, and unanimously disliked.  I wish somebody in any of the other sites provided detailed part number for replacement.  I am going to try to remove it in Spring as it is on the hard, may have a dissimilar metal issue.  Thanks for all thoughts.

[ohana]

Hi, if I recall correctly, I am sure the thread was something fairly standard so should not be hard to source parts to allow you to fit a standard marine spec ball valve. Your comment re dissimilar metals is correct, most of the conversions I have seen used DZR or Bronze fittings rather than stainless steel. Might be worth taking a look at Vyv Cox website - full of useful and sound information. 

coxeng.co.uk

[mattm]

Update for future reference.  This valve has an incredibly poor history, search and everyone had problems.  Good news.  The new SD60 has replaced with ball valve.  Per factory, the part number for SD50 gate valve is 196450-02390. Part  for SD60 # 196460-02400.  The gentleman at yanmar said the threads looked the same size, strange that they don't know they are compatible.  I have attached picture.  Threads are parallel and they count on a plastic washer to insulate the valve from the aluminum block, i.e. prevent galvanic corrosion at water interface.  I have yet to purchase and replace, but I am hopeful.  

[sailingabe41ds]

Hi..

Are you replacing with the red handled one  or the original ?

Abe

[dbostrom]

Feb 12, 2021 22:42:58 GMT mattm said:

Update for future reference.  This valve has an incredibly poor history, search and everyone had problems.  Good news.  The new SD60 has replaced with ball valve.  Per factory, the part number for SD50 gate valve is 196450-02390. Part  for SD60 # 196460-02400.  The gentleman at yanmar said the threads looked the same size, strange that they don't know they are compatible.  I have attached picture.  Threads are parallel and they count on a plastic washer to insulate the valve from the aluminum block, i.e. prevent galvanic corrosion at water interface.  I have yet to purchase and replace, but I am hopeful.  


.  View Attachment

Wow, the value of this forum. 

If that valve pans out, definitely one for the "hints and tips" area. Hours spent on finding that should not be wasted!

Deeply weird choice on Yanmar's part for original valve. Perhaps they should have a design review board including some actual boaters to go over engineers' plans?

[fimacca]

Having just gone through my (new to me ) Jeanneau SO on survey , the ball valves and stopcocks were all pretty basic and not good quality. Some had mild steel parts. Awful. Why ?

I will plan to replace them with composite ones and new skin fittings next year. I cannot tell if they were original or not, but they all look similar. If it is one thing you can do to stop sinking a boat you own, its thru hull fittings......(apart from hitting rocks/other vessels or putting up too much sail in a storm !)

The advice is to replace every 5 years. (this may be a back covering by manufacturers!)

'Navigators & General insurance claims data from 2008 to 2018, revealed the most common claims they handled were as follows:
A boat colliding with another vessel (31% of claims handled)
Storm damage (21%)
Grounding or collision with underwater obstacle (20%)
Ingress of water (15%)
Theft of equipment, fittings and personal effects (13%)
The costliest type of claim was storm damage, with an average cost per claim of £17,600. Ingress of water, including sinking, leads to typical claims worth £11,200; grounding or collision with underwater obstacle, £10,000; collision with another vessel, £3,000; and theft, £1,800.'

[kurtinge100]

Did anybody test if the SD60 seacock fit in the SD50 or not?

/KI

[enrico]

Feb 12, 2021 22:42:58 GMT mattm said:

Update for future reference.  This valve has an incredibly poor history, search and everyone had problems.  Good news.  The new SD60 has replaced with ball valve.  Per factory, the part number for SD50 gate valve is 196450-02390. Part  for SD60 # 196460-02400.  The gentleman at yanmar said the threads looked the same size, strange that they don't know they are compatible.  I have attached picture.  Threads are parallel and they count on a plastic washer to insulate the valve from the aluminum block, i.e. prevent galvanic corrosion at water interface.  I have yet to purchase and replace, but I am hopeful.  

[enrico]

Hallo, I’m very interested, did you install the new valve? Did it fit ok? Thanks

[Finny]

Hello,

the exploded view is from a Yanmar SD 20, you can see the valve with the toggle. The previous versions are also listed. These look quite similar to the valve shown.

I had to replace the valve because it could no longer be moved. The previous owner has probably rarely, or never closed it. (Understandable, if it requires an arm with universal joint...) According to the shipyard, they could not get the original valve and have therefore installed a ball valve. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the boatyard installing. However, the ball valve is not screwed directly to the SD, but after a 90 degree angle? (not quite shure, may be an other fitting) to make it easier to operate.

This solution was also suggested by the surveyor during the pre-purchase visit.



Greetings

[mattm]

Yes, this worked perfectly.  Sorry, no pictures available.