"Bleach/ pressure wash" in spring before waxing?

[renegade27]

Hi, all - please stay safe and 'flatten the curve' as we hear constantly in the US.

While my marina is shut down (as with everything else) I hope to be able to do a more thorough spring prep while waiting for the world to open again. The yard is supposedly closed, but I plan to work anyway, keeping a good social distance from any other rebels sneaking into the yard. "Outdoor exercise" is encouraged, and I plan to get some .

In addition to the bloody never-ending chase of rust on my steel keel which seems to get worse the more I work it, I'd like to really do a good refresh of the shine on my hull. Cleaned and waxed year after year, the hull of my '06 JSO 35 is good but maybe starting to show some age. In particular where bumpers rest against the hull all summer long.

I asked my marina what they charge for waxing (thinking a good professional job once every 15 years ain't so much to ask). $490 "To bleach/ pressure wash your boat and wash, buff and wax". Boat-expensive as expected, but given the time I now plan to do it myself.

Anyone ever "bleach/ pressure wash" your hull? Exactly what would this be? Diluted bleach used in the pressure washer?

[MartyB]

www.westmarine.com/buy/knight-products--marine-grez-off--131920?recordNum=5

If you can find this product at WM or somewhere else, I use this alot when doing an initial spring clean, with a bucket of favorite soap and a heavy brush. This should work on the hull too.
Also black streak remover works on the hull very well too. I would suggest one of the 5x12" or so scrubby sponges on a pole for this use. Fine should be all you need for either product.

Waxing the hull.....takes me around 2-3 hours per coat. I usually do a non wax cleaner - rubbing compound, then a coarser leaner was, like the 3M 9005 pint, 9006 qt, and 9007 gallon size. then was like the 3m 9061, 9062 again pt and qt number. Last hull job, finished with 3m Perfect it, 36112 and 36113, again pt and qt bottle.

I use a Makita polisher, around $200. Ive seen others for as little $100. Then use a course wool buff pad for rubbing compound and medium to fine for cleaner wax, I then use a foam pad for waxes.

This works well every 2-4 years for my 85 Arcadia. It does take me the majority of one day! Moving 2 ladders with 12' 2x12 boards to stand on while doing project.

I guess the $500 does not sound too bad when you look at initial investment/rental in tools etc, and your time!

Marty

PS
Yes I did use a WM link, I knew where to find it. I DO work in the Seattle store in wholesale hub part. Hopefully I have given out appropriate I work at link memo. Buy at place BEST for you! Keeping ALL parties safe from virus etc.

[MartyB]

Maguire, Starbrite, Collinite also have products similar to the 3M brand, in that there are CLEANERS, for oxidized hulls, then a cleaner/wax, a heavy duty version, lighter duty, wax products that also work from a course to super fine.
Some place like WM, I believe the in house brand is Starbrite repackaged. Bottom paints are Petit products.
Maguire if you need a product "54" the 5416 is a product 54 in a 16oz container, 5432 a 32 oz container.... Starbrite is similar in its numbering system too. Not familiar on Collinite as to how they do things. I do know of a couple of people that swear by this brand of products.
I've also used the 3M 9006 on my deck, even with the built in antiskid. I apply a few drops, dollups in a 2-3 sq ft area, use a STIFF 3" long bristle brush, spread and cover this area in circles, straight brushes north south, east west, and the appropriate 45 angle. Then it needs to set for a day or so, then I use another stiff brus, and a hose to clean it off. Yes, not good for water, since I am in the water year around.......but cleans, yes waxes to a degree the deck. But it is not any more slippery than with out. It is shinier and cleaner. I also will use a wax for the smooth parts of the deck in between the anti-skid, and cabin walls etc after I do this.
For many of you OUT of the water in NA midwest and upper east coast. Hopefully you get in the water and can use the boats. It might also be a good time to think about projects like this, where you can keep away from others, do a number on your boat too.

Marty

PS, Lets see some before and after pics too!

[zaphod]

When a gelcoat hull is starting to show it's age there really is no short cut. Definitely invest in a professional grade polisher such as this one:
www.makitatools.com/products/details/9237C

Consumer grade automotive buffers are not powerful enough to do a good job on gelcoat, and you will find you expend more energy for far inferior results.

How oxidized your hull is will determine what polish and pads you need. Avoid using "combination" products that claim to polish and wax. Again there are no shortcuts! Don't be afraid to spend more money on the polish. There is a reason pros don't use the cheap stuff!

This is my polishing kit. My hull was not showing too much oxidation so I didn't have to cut polish, I went straight to the fine polish with a foam pad,but if you have visible oxidation you will want to start with a cutting compound and a wool pad.

I promise you, if you spend the time and use the right products you will be able to bring back the boatshow shine to your hull!

[MartyB]

That is the same polisher I use, and is recommended by many people that do this day in and out.

Also, if hull is REALLY REALLY oxidated, a sander with 3000-4000 grit paper wet sanding may be needed to get initial oxidation off the hull. I use a 000 hand scrubby with soap and water for deck many times. THen again, my hull is 35 years old!

marty

[ForGrinsToo]

The MSDS for Marine Grez-Off says the active ingredient is sodium metasilicate, which behaves (as a cleaner) much like trisodium phosphate (TSB). That would not be good to leave on or around any aluminum fittings (like cleats and toe rail) for very long as strong bases (alkalis) attack aluminum. A mask, face/eye protection, and gloves would be essential.

I am intrigued by "To bleach/ pressure wash your boat and wash, buff and wax", and wonder what bleach compound they use. Household sodium hypochlorite is ok on the fiberglass. Many will be familiar with liquid cleanser with bleach, which is recommended for acrylic sinks, but which is probably way too coarse for gel coat.

Our 2010 36i is new enough that we've had good results with 3M Marine Cleaner/Wax for lightly oxidized surfaces after washing with Dawn dishwashing detergent. We go through a lot of microfiber pads with a 9" random-orbit buffer (they get washed and re-used). The cleaner/wax seems to do a nice job on fender streaks and marks from the winter cover. We have been using Woody Wax on the non-skid for several years.

Practical Sailor recommends: "3M Scotchgard Marine Polish and Star brite Premium with Teflon earned top billing. Collinite Heavy Duty No. 845 Insulator Wax (which is the same formula as its No. 925 Fiberglass Boat Wax) was another winner, and the Island Girl Mirror Guard Super Glaze, an expensive wipe-on polymer, also scored high at six months. West Marine's Pure Oceans blend was tapped as an eco-friendly marine option, and the multipurpose Mirage from MP Pros scored as a multi-tasker." They also noted that paste waxes outperform most liquids, but require a lot more effort.

Geoff

[alenka]

Take a look at Buff Magic by Shurehold.  They also make a range of electric buffing machines which are easy to use - Just be aware that it easy to overheat some wax/polish and burn it onto the gel, leaving brown swirls.

I have used Buff Magic for about ten years and it is very good at getting a good clean base upon which to start. I am not so impressed with their pro-polish product and tend to finish off myself with one of the nano type waxes.

Shurehold make a series of how to videos on Youtube which are informative if you can get past the sales guff.  

This is supposed to be an independent review - but I have my doubts.

[MartyB]

MY application use of grease off, is water on the deck, spray on deck while wet, sits for not long, ie long enough to use with brush and boat soap. Rinse off. This helps cut through heavier dirt and grease on the deck and hull.

[sleighride]

We purchased our DS43 in 2002 and until last year, I have always cleaned and waxed the hull by hand. There is no sign of oxidation and the hull still looks almost new. Last year I finally replaced the rigging and the boat was out almost a month; so I had the yard clean and wax and buff since they would not let me do the work in the yard for liability reasons. The result was excellent, but the cost was $1,200 for wax and buff. This year I am back to doing work myself. I wash by hand with boat soap and rags, and if there are stubborn stains I use a little Simple Green. Then I use a liquid polymer called Driven, which is usually good for the season. I have used this product now for seven or eight years in lieu of wax. It takes me two full days of hard work to complete the job. Again I use no electric buffer since the boat is in the water.

[johannes]

Oxalic acid works well to remove stains and discolouration on gelcoat. Maybe that is what they mean by "bleach".

[ForGrinsToo]

Oxalic acid is the active ingredient in many rust-removal products. It's pretty toxic, too.

Geoff

[alenka]

Apr 28, 2020 15:47:07 GMT sleighride said:

We purchased our DS43 in 2002 and until last year, I have always cleaned and waxed the hull by hand. There is no sign of oxidation and the hull still looks almost new. Last year I finally replaced the rigging and the boat was out almost a month; so I had the yard clean and wax and buff since they would not let me do the work in the yard for liability reasons. The result was excellent, but the cost was $1,200 for wax and buff. This year I am back to doing work myself. I wash by hand with boat soap and rags, and if there are stubborn stains I use a little Simple Green. Then I use a liquid polymer called Driven, which is usually good for the season. I have used this product now for seven or eight years in lieu of wax. It takes me two full days of hard work to complete the job. Again I use no electric buffer since the boat is in the water.

$1,200 for wax and buff!  I thought €300 at my yard expensive for something they can get done in half a day with the right equipment.

[so40gtb]

My longtime spring prep practice goes like this: (a) wash hull and deck with a good marine soap; (b) wipe down hull topsides (except for stripes and lettering) with acetone-soaked paper "shop towels", to remove the old wax and stains; (c) clean same area thoroughly with Collinite 920 (applied with Shurhold buffer), and (d) apply two coats of Meguiar's Flagship wax, towel-buffing the first and both towel- and machine-buffing the second. When we first acquired both our prior 2001 SO34 (in 2007) and our current 2000 SO40 (in 2012), the first year's effort was not ideal, but it improved the next two, to a consistent result thereafter. Most folks in "foreign" marinas think that Voyageur is 10 years younger than the reality. I've had to wet-sand out some scratches and such in small areas, with 1000-grit sandpaper, from time to time, but that's rare.

[Mistroma]

Apr 28, 2020 17:06:54 GMT johannes said:

Oxalic acid works well to remove stains and discolouration on gelcoat. Maybe that is what they mean by "bleach".

It would be a reasonably safe bet that they mean "Oxalic acid" based cleaner when saying bleach, rather than bleach (.ie. sodium hypochlorite).

Oxalic acid is the active ingredient in a huge range of hull, deck and teak cleaning products. It won't remove black marks etc. as it isn't an abrasive cleaner. However, it will remove yellow staining, rust streaks and similar.

It is cheap and easy to get hold of (eBay etc.). Make up a 5%-10% solution and use in warmer weather. The rate of reaction drops off a cliff around 10C and it starts to take hours to work. In mid. 20s Celcius it will remove stains in minutes. I used to use it in Scotland around March/April and it was fine if I pre-heated the hull or deck with plenty of hot water and used a hot acid solution.

Keep it out of your eyes and skin. It is acidic and also toxic but not actually that bad. But then I was used to working with acids able to dissolve a heavy glove in minutes and poisons able to kill in seconds. Anything less than that always seemed safe by comparison.

I have used a squeezy mop to clean a hull and it works well if you are at the same level. Safe enough as drips do not run towards you. Trickier if the hull is above you and I'd avoid attempting to use it that way.

Commercial products often contain just oxalic acid, water, surfactants and thickener. I usually add a drop of washing up liquid to aid spread and penetration. I used to use thickeners but to be honest that was only needed in very cold weather. Just wiping it on a few times works well in Greece.

[Deleted]

You can use Star Brite or 3M cleaner, they are great at removing rust and cleaning the boat.

[robert1]

Bio-Kleen product is so easy to use and is so amazing how it takes those black streaks right off without even scrubbing. I waited 2 mins and gently power sprayed the cap and it was 99% clean. Only a couple of stubborn splatters that needed some elbow grease. Like magic spray, wipe, and it’s white again.

[Charlie-Bravo]

I use Oxalic acid, I fill a plastic measuring jug with powdered oxalic to 100 ml mark then top up with hot but not boiling water to the 1 litre mark, 2 to 3 litres is plenty, I call it 10:1 but it isn't really, this I apply with a window cleaning microfibre mop on a long stick, dipping it into a deep sided large tin baking tray. For the yellowing water stain on white gel coat that occurs around here it can't be easier, wipe on, leave for 3 mins and hose off ... stains gone, no scrubbing.

The stains: micro biological organisms that make a home in the surface of your gel coat ( once the wax has disappeared ) they then die, and their little bodies stay attached to the hull, slowly going brown/ yellow . Oxalic acid dissolves their little bodies, and then when hosed they are gone, ....... but so is all your wax, leaving perfectly clean habitats for new little fellas to make a home, so re waxing / polish of snake oil must be applied for lasting results, for non water line and about 2 foot above stains , soap and scrub.

Fender marks: I use 1500 grit followed by 2000 grit and if I can find it 3000 grit paper on a rubber block, and then polish with 3M finnesit , ( probably spelt wrong) which needs a mechanical polisher, then a wax or snake oil polish, for efficient rubbing with the grit paper I do as was done in many an old style paint shop, soak your paper in water with a good squirt of washing up liquid over night, and use the soapy water to keep your paper wet whilst rubbing, it makes for a quicker and better result, and the paper won't glog up.

Remember that the gel coat isn't very thick, so do the minimum of rubbing down and polishing to get the finish, and a lot of polishing or waxing to prevent the need for doing it each year.

Keep your fenders clean, household Spray cleaner with bleach seems as good as many 'boat cleaner' products, and if you get tempted to use fender socks, wash them frequently as they turn into 800 grit items with the dirt , sand and salt crystals they collect.

A roof rack with planks on makes a good mobile scaffold, much better than a step ladder, and speeds the job up whilst saving your knees.

Happy polishing
CB

[robert1]

I love 303 wax. I live in an area where the sun is intense, and the winters are cold and, also, intense. I use this on my Truck's Dash, well really all hard surfaces in my truck, about every other month. 303 has protected these areas extremely well and keeps them looking brand new. The bottle also lasts a long time as you don't need a ton of it, so it'll last you quite a while.

[Deleted]

I recently used combo Collinite cleaner and wax. It is also a great brand. The Collinite 920 is capable of removing film, light, and other tough stains that cover fiberglass boat finishes. It helps restore the original shine of the surface area. On the other hand, the Collinite 925 is a perfect last touch after using the 920. It helps add an extra sheen to the fiberglass while giving it lasting protection as well.

[robert1]

We used Meguiar to wax our boat. After using it, our boat was a totally different color! It went from old dingy yellow to a nice new off-white. I did skip the polish step a few times and just removed oxidation then sealed it with pure wax. Very happy with this product.

[robert1]

B.E.S.T worked very well and got the roof cleaned to my expectations. I used the entire 48 oz. on about 400' ft of roof, or about 2X the recommended amount, just because the roof was so dirty. I'd recommend the use of a very stiff brush for the cleaning and the use of an extension handle to save your back.