Size of anchor chain rode

[gre2]

Want to purchase more chain for my anchor rode on a SO 37, 2001. Does anyone know the size I need as I don't have access to the boat at this time. I think I need 5/16 inch.

[zaphod]

My 39i has 150ft of 3/8" G4 chain, and it isn't much bigger than your boat.

You should check what chain sizes work best with your windlass before making the choice.

[jdl01]

There are two variables in sizing anchor chain; one is the "chain size" which is the diameter of the chain that makes up the link (typically 3/8" or 5/16" for your size of boat), the other is the shape of the link (typically triple B or G4). Both variables affect the fit on your windlass gypsy. At rendevous for Jeanneau, I have seen differing gypsy sizes on factory provided windlasses for the same class of boat, so I would suggest that you look at the model marking on your gypsy before you invest a lot in new chain.

[j24sailor]

I am also looking at replacing my chain with a longer length (200') currently 125'. We have 10 mm G4 with a Quick 1000 windlass. The question that has come up a couple of times is it a 20 degree or 30 degree windlass or chain. Looking at the windlass I can't find anything to indicate this and the chain appears to be at 90 degrees in the windlass itself. I am planning on going to a local chandelry to find out what they are talking about but if anyone knows I would appreciate the information. James

[zaphod]

I havent come across any references to "degrees" in chain, but I'm no expert. Here is a helpful article on chain types:

www.cruisingworld.com/how/your-chain-explained-understanding-anchor-chain/

[georgia]

My 39i has 200' of 3/8" G4 chain, no rode.     no issues holding. 

[MalcolmP]

Feb 1, 2020 6:48:48 GMT j24sailor said:

,.... The question that has come up a couple of times is it a 20 degree or 30 degree windlass or chain....

I wonder if they are referring to grade?

Cheaper chains are often 30 grade, I went for 43 grade so that I could drop to 8mm rather than 10mm when I bought 80 metres on weight considerations

Helpful info here:
jimmygreen.com/744-Calibrated-Anchor-Chain

[Charlie-Bravo]

8mm (5/16) probably, but some have 10 mm , best wait until you are back at the boat,  our SO35 had 10mm but as the chain was rusting badly in the middle , replaced it with 8mm Titan chain and got hold of a new gypsy for the windlass £140 !ouch .  and 50 meters of 8mm is about the same weight as 30m of 10mm which is worth a thought, I need 50m around here.
Looking at the price of a gypsy size change might sway you to one size, but if you do change , note that imperial gypsys are a little different to metric, worth getting the proper thing for a super smooth chain run.

On our last yacht I needed to buy chain, and went through a lot of information researching what would be best, and after a lot of thought came to the conclusion that my cleats or windlass will probably rip out of the deck before 8mm chain snaps, the anchor would probably let go as well, and also that the springy snubber bridal and catenary curve give the chain and boat attachments an easy life.
If living aboard and having to rely on anchoring in F8 near to rocks you might sleep better with 10mm and a huge rocna, ....... but if it is that horrible I don't sleep much anyway.

Degrees ? 
CB

[frankc64]

I spent a few hours on this over the past two days - trying to outfit a spare anchor with rode and chain. My windlass is a Lofrans Airon with a 1000W motor. After having the boat for about 6 years, I finally got a windlass remote (OZ-USA Anchor Remote) going toward the end of last year. But I still didn't really use it so had not really tested it fully - typically I'm on moorings.

So yesterday I was looking over the gypsy to identify the proper chain and rode. The base of the gypsy reads 3/8" BBB CAMP3 ACCO. After consulting a Lofrans Chainwheel Chart it appeared that this windlass is "chain only". This was surprising since the boat came with about 25ft of chain and ~150ft of rode. I can still use the drum to some extent but it's not self tailing and certainly not good for chain. Anyway, I was really hoping to use rode spliced to some chain on the windlass.

I called Imtra, the local Lofrans dealer, hoping to be able to change the gypsy to one that's suitable for both rode and chain - no luck. Not only the gypsy but this entire windlass is 'chain only'. From reading through postings here, I see this is very common in Europe, but I think most people here (southern New England) use chain and rode. So I was looking at 200ft of 3/8" BBB chain for nearly $800US and ~300lbs additional weight at the bow (32ft boat - UGH!). I race on other boats just enough that this added weight bothers me - not to mention the task of getting it on the boat. I thought maybe I could change-out the whole upper end above the hollow shaft gearbox, but no luck with that either. 

Right now, my plan is this - ~100-120ft of chain (<200lbs at the bow). Spare will have a much longer nylon line with chain to start. Most anchorages here are under 20ft and I understand 5:1 is acceptable for all chain vs 7:1 for rode.

Does anyone else have this Airon windlass for an SO32? How do you have that configured? Snubber?
Sorry for the long post.

Thank you,
Frank

[MartyB]

Frank,

You do not need 3/8" BBB chain on your SO32. i have 1/4 g43 on my arcadia, an equal to a modern day SO28/30. where I am in puget sound, 25' of water would be absolute minimum depending upon the under water terrain, as we can get some 12-14' tides a few days a month. I prefer 50' when i can.
i would want 50' minimum, with 300-400' of rode for around here. that way yes, you can have a 7-1 to 10-1 if the wind really got up there. ive found 5-1 works for me. go with a slightly bigger anchor than recommended per say, as in reality, if the wind pipes up above about 30knots or so, you are on ONLY the anchor! ALL that chain folks put out is not worth its weight IMHO. Also, we have places that you can be in 200' of water, less than a boat length or two to shore, and you stern tie to the shore. Now you are doing 2 or 3-1 on the bow! we need a few more deep water options here. All chain helps here a bit more than some places frankly!
Yes, 800 lbs or so of 3/8" chain on the front of our boats, creates a heck of a lot of weather helm! If you want ALL chain, I would go with G7 1/4", probably have the same strength, at half the weight of 3/8" bbb chain. That is assuming changing out the windlass is an option too!

Marty

[frankc64]

Wow - very different anchoring considerations out there!
I'm checking into smaller chain options now. I was so focused on changing to rode/chain that I didn't even think of that! Looks like there are smaller and stronger chains than the BBB.

Thank you,
Frank

[jy51]

I have read many comments on the forum where people have down sized on chain to reduce bow weight or to increase the length of chain they carry. They justify this by saying the new grades of chain are stronger.

My opinion is that you should be doing precisely the opposite.

I’ve never come across anyone who had snapped chain, I don’t believe the strength is the main issue, I believe the weight of the chain is more important to improving the anchoring result.  If the chain and it’s weight wasn’t important we would just use rope!  

Beefing up the chain and the anchor gains results.  

If anchoring in deep water is your problem and you don’t have at least six times scope of chain, add anchorplait.  On my Jeanneau 51, I carry 75 meters of 12 mm chain attached to 75 meters of anchorplait.  I have heard of other 51 owners changing the winch to accommodate 10 mm chain, I personally think this is a big mistake.

[MartyB]

The local dealer owner has iirc 1/4 or 5/16 G7 on his 49iP. He goes to alaska on a toured cruise with 10-20 boats, been to Oz with it......
800 lbs of 300-400 ft of chain on a 50' boat is a lot different than on a 30ish foot boat. Those of us with smaller boats, have to look at different options so we do not use half of our available payload if you will in chain and anchor.
Yes, if I needed more weight for a DEEP anchorage like we have in places around here, a plait or a 10-20 lb lead ball on my boat where the chain ends and meets the line would work similar to all chain.
Fortunately, there is more than one way to skin a cat when anchoring, depending upon the where and how you anchor.

marty

[frankc64]

As I mentioned, I was hoping to use rope and some chain as is common here, but the windlass will not support this. The spare will have chain and nylon rope. I learned from Imtra today that I can change out the gypsy for either 5/16HT or 1/4"HT as MartyB suggested. But still chain only gypsy's are available for my windlass. Checking on chain strengths and weight - a quick survey on the West Marine website shows:

3/8" BBB - Safe Working Load (SWL) = 2650lbs 1.6lbs/ft

5/16" HT - SWL = 3900lbs 1.1lbs/ft

1/4" HT - SWL = 2600lbs  0.75lbs/

I get the both sides of the weight debate, but I have a relatively light boat, I'm a coastal cruiser and anchorage around here is not deep. I think the 51 is 3x heavier or more than my SO32. On top of the weight difference, I believe these numbers extrapolate in an exponential fashion when forces of waves and wind are applied.  Comparatively speaking to a 51ft boat, I practically have a dinghy.

I'd like to hear more opinions - but so far for me, lighter is better, I'd rather let out more scope if needed. So 200ft of the 3/8" would 320 lbs. (at the boat of a boat that's already pretty tender). The 1/4" HT would be only 150lbs and essentially the same strength. I'm liking the 1/4" numbers....


 

[MartyB]

Frank,
You might try up sizing the line a bit, so it can get some bite from the windlass. not sure if that will is an option/work or not, I have 1/2" line. so maybe 9/16 or 5/8 line will bite vs chain. I do not have a windlass, so having the 225' of line I have, a bit less than I would like as mentioned, 15' of chain, I have not had issues up 30-35 knots of wind with 3' waves here in puget sound with a 7.5KG bruce anchor. Even my 9 lb fast set has worked in up to 20 knots. I do nto want to go much higher than that. That anchor has 6' of 3/8 bbb and 150 or so feet of 7/16 line. that is my race anchor! over minimum spec locally, which is a 6 lb anchor and 12 lbs total including rode/chain/anchor with 100min feet of line/rode. Min anchor is (loa/17)cubed. min OA is LOA squared/80.
Boats our size need adequate rode for a boat that is 6500 or so lbs in my case, 8-9000 in your case, and LOA.
i've found looking at different anchor specs,
1/4 lb per foot is good to 20 knots of wind
1/2 lb to 40
1 lb to 60,
Most tests show above 30 knots, you are hanging on the anchor only, the chain or rope is not on the ground. so a bigger anchor in some cases is a better option than one chain size up. Also, weight of anchor is not always the key to holding in storms etc. this comes down to fluke size. So if you can get an aluminum danforth style to set, that has the best holding power per lb of ANY anchor! Likewise i would figure an aluminum spade would hold as well as a steel one! but not as good as a set danforth. I personally do not like danforths, as they do not set well here in puget sound.....do not reset with tide changes. Hence me having a Bruce that came with the boat, sold the danforths, and bought the fast set.

anchoring techniques and styles, is a bit like religion or politics, no right or wrong answer, just opinions. Make sure it works in the conditions you are in. If it works great somewhere else, great, but if you are dragging where you are today, due to soil conditions, you can have the best setup 90% of the time, but if you are in that 10% zone, not good!

Marty

[Don Reaves]

I have a Lofrans windlass on my SO35 with a chain-only gypsy plus a drum for rope. The raceway is covered, so once the rode in on the gypsy, there's no way to switch over to the drum. This sounds like what you're dealing with.

I have found that with the right sized line (I think mine is probably 1/2" 3-strand nylon) it will work with the gypsy, provided there is some tension. So I have 90 feet of chain and 150 feet of rope spliced together, and they work. It's not ideal, but much lighter than all chain.

Don

[gre2]

Thanks for the reply Don. Do you know the size and type of chain you are using?

[Don Reaves]

 Unfortunately,  I do not know the size. I am away from my boat now, and can’t measure it. 

[frankc64]

Don Reaves - Yes, the gypsy on my windlass is chain only. The Lofrans rep. said that it takes 3/8" BBB and nothing else. This information is engraved or cast into the gypsy itself.

www.imtra.com/COLLATERAL/DOCUMENTS/ENGLISH-US/PRODUCTS/LOFRANS_CHAINWHEEL_CHART.PDF

I can buy and change out the gypsy to 5/16" HT chain, but still - chain only. I can also change to 1/4" HT. I looked at the 1/4" a few days ago - it's as strong as the 3/8" BBB, but it just looks very small so not going there. 

The raceway on mine is enclosed as you mentioned. The Lofrans rep. also mentioned a 'finger' that is in place when the gypsy is made to work with chain and rode. Sounds like this finger acts like a bit of a jam cleat to hold the rode. Any route I go looks like around $1,000. I'll see if I can get a line to feed through this weekend - that would be less for sure. Chain and rode would be great for my needs. 

BTW - that drum works great for fouling my leeward jibsheets! 

[gre2]

Thanks Frank and Don. Was up at the boat this weekend and definitely have a Lofrans windlass. So if I add chain, I will go to the 3/8 BBB.

[Maravilla]

Jun 12, 2020 11:48:39 GMT jy51 said:

I have read many comments on the forum where people have down sized on chain to reduce bow weight or to increase the length of chain they carry. They justify this by saying the new grades of chain are stronger.

My opinion is that you should be doing precisely the opposite.

I’ve never come across anyone who had snapped chain, I don’t believe the strength is the main issue, I believe the weight of the chain is more important to improving the anchoring result.  If the chain and it’s weight wasn’t important we would just use rope!  

Beefing up the chain and the anchor gains results.  

If anchoring in deep water is your problem and you don’t have at least six times scope of chain, add anchorplait.  On my Jeanneau 51, I carry 75 meters of 12 mm chain attached to 75 meters of anchorplait.  I have heard of other 51 owners changing the winch to accommodate 10 mm chain, I personally think this is a big mistake.

I agree, the weight of the chain and the length over which that weight can work are important to holding power.