TEPAI ( Greek Cruising Tax)

[vasko]

Anyone managed to pay the TEPAI ? 
HowTo ? 

[mehmet]

Agents are doing that for you,if you use any at arrival.

[alenka]

TEPAI is up and running as from around 3pm on the 9th, May.

You can register and pay online but the site is not without its problems!

[ianf]

You have to register on line for a login at www.aade.gr/polites/etepai . They ask for a ridiculous amount of information, even the names of your mother and father!!


I eventually managed to find where the site is in English and got my login but I haven't had my application accepted as they want to know the date I first entered Greece and I can't find where to put it!!  That was on my phone which was a bit like doing it through a keyhole so I will try again on my computer later. Apparently we have until the 18th May to submit for May.

[vasko]

I think I managed to get registered and  my application accepted 150 EUR for 6 months   - now will visit the bank to pay it and will report back if all is good  

the procedure as I understand it is : 


1. register here : www1.aade.gr/aadeapps2/etepai/search



2. confirm registration with the received email



3. fill all details about boat and ownership
( concentrate only on the required once with * )


4. receive two documents by email



5. go to a Greek bank with the two documents and pay the amount



6. with all this together go and get new DEKPA



 

[alenka]

The Cruising Association have spearheaded the fight to get this tax sorted in a fair and even way.  They have won many concessions from which any boat cruising Greek waters will benefit.

There is now a very, very long thread on their forum covering so many difficulties and system crashes I will not even attempt to summarise them.  So far, perhaps only 10% of people registering have managed a successful outcome. Even those making payment in cash at the Greek National Bank still have their registration showing as unpaid.

The CA's negotiator is tearing his hair out and although I feel it inappropriate to reproduce CA forum content here I thinks this email from him to the Greek Ministry sums up the situation.

There are so many issues and the untested system will be creating a mass more to such a point that the system is irrecoverable.

You must Close the system to new registrations, and then sort out those who have registered before opening the system again.

You need to sort out the banks in Greece who seem not to be able to take payment.

You need to tell us how we know when our payment has been received - My payment is not there yet - and I have no idea how to know if it is.

You then need to delay the start of the tax another month - or for as long as you need to sort the software.

However I think it will take longer than that to sort out the system and the back log of faults.

Non receipt of emails is highly likely to be due to email providers pre filtering emails - you should have sorted this before you went live

In Conclusion, I am not prepared to spend any more of my time supporting this disaster as disaster it will be.

I think you should treat my advice very seriously - You should note that this has been copied to most of the worlds sailing organisations.

Best of all You should cancel the whole thing and just get on with encouraging tourism. You will make more money that way...

We have a saying in English: KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.


Sadly, I haven't received a single word from the RYA on this subject.

Without the CA on the case this situation would be 10 times worse.  Anyone thinking of joining and supporting their work can get a first year discount by using the code Malcolm set up.

[ianf]

Well I eventually managed to do it but what a performance. I was eventually emailed the documents required to make the payment and sallied forth to the National Bank of Greece only to be told that they can't do it and I would have to go to Eurobank.


I duly did this and took my ticket and stood in line. When I eventually reached the teller all seemed to be going well until it was time to make the payment. I handed over my visa debit card to pay the 404.88 euros only to be told "cash only sorry"

I then had to go outside to their cash machine to draw out the cash and then go back in , take a ticket and stand in an even longer line and start again!!

Only in Greece!

[alenka]

Many reporting that paying online does not change the status of their TEPAI application from unpaid to paid leaving them without any proof they have parted with their money.
It seems it is best to pop into the first large bank or post office with cash and get a receipt that you can show PP. It might still show unpaid on the electronic register but at least you have something in your hand. 

[vasko]

Has to confess I did not have any issues , registered, filled the documents, after 39 min received the email with the two documents, pop in Alpha Bank , paid in cash , got a receipt all perfect - never even think about to pay with card( already kniw about how to pay dekpa)

[alenka]

No problem here either with the initial registeration but some people who paid on line by bank transfer... The system is not geared up for card payment... are still showing as unpaid almost a week later. They don't have any proof of payment either, but I believe the system is being modified to overcome this.  Certainly the delays in getting registration emails seem to have been addressed. I received mine with 2 minutes. 

[alenka]

Following ongoing issues with on-line payment I elected to pay mine at the post office in cash.

I have been checked once so far this year and the PO receipt was good enough to pass the scrutiny 

[vasko]

yep paid in cash does the job

[alenka]

TEPAI it seems is still very much misunderstood by a large number of port police and in some places they are more interested in dishing out fines than advice.

In short TEPAI is only due for the months a boat is in the water.  It is not paid when out of the water.

If you put your boat on the hard then you need a contract/receipt from the yard showing the time the boat is put ashore and for how long. Some yards such a Cleopatra issue a certificate stating haul out and and relaunch dates.

In most cases being ashore is simple to prove but no-one has come up with a solution for trailer sailors which are stored ashore on private land.

If you leave your boat in the water then it has to be declared 'out of use'. And this is where it becomes even more tricky because you will have to visit the port police and go though all the details of where and when.  Once agreed you should in theory leave all your ship documents, registration, etc., with them - In much the same way as none EU boats do when being put into bond.

However.  'Out of Use' status was originally only intended for Greek residents and was/is more related to personal taxation. A number of port police are not prepared to process such a request from a non resident because they don't feel it is relevant. Technically if your boat is in the water and not declared 'out of use' you should pay TEPAI whether used or not.

The Cruising Association have gained a letter from the Greek ministry that can help overcome objections from non cooperative PP. It explains the proper interpretation of 'out of use' in relation to TEPAI.  For obvious reasons it would be inappropriate to reprint the exact contents of this letter here.  

I would hate for anyone however to fall the wrong side of the law and be fined though nothing more than misunderstanding this tricky subject. 

In short.

Do not let your Dekpa fall out of stamp.

Unless you have paid TEPAI for a full year make sure you have appropriate proof that your boat is out of the water or officially declared 'out of use' when you visit the PP for next years Dekpa stamp.

[vasko]

Hmmm as far as I understand TEPAI is due only for the time boat is is sailing(in use) - e.g. when boat is in marina or on anchor the TEPAI is not due.

TEPAI is enforced / checked if PP stop you and check your boat while in use/sailing and they find that the TEPAI is not paid.

Having to prove that a boat has been on the hard or not in use is actually pretty impossible for about 80% of the boats as they do not have receipt for staying on the hard or staying in free places/marinas (example in the Ionian from Nov to May most town quays are free) - places like Cleopatra or Olympic are exceptions not standard...

[alenka]

Vasko,  I am not sure when you have come up with this interpretation of the law. It is quite at odds with every thing I have seen published.  If you could point me in the right direction as to where to find the information you are basing your comments on that would be a big help.

I would however strongly suggest that you double check 'your' circumstances with local port police to ensure they are in agreement with how you are planing to leave your boat, otherwise your could be fined when you have your next DEPKA stamp.  

According to the CA, who have a dedicated negotiator working with the Greek Ministry, just leaving your boat in the water and walking away from it will prove nothing. It will be assumed to be still in use (live aboard) and liable for tax.  Of course if you are under 12m then paying for a full year is not a real hardship and much easier to do then lodging paperwork with PP. Several people I know have taken this route.

The CA are still trying to find a solution for boat owners who leave their boat in a marina unused through the winter months. As yet it seems the only way is to declare the boat 'Out of Use'. And, as already mentioned, this is confusing some PP who believe that this is only applicable to Greek residents. Some owners have had 'out of use' written on their paperwork, some have had to lodge registration documents with the PP, some have been sent away.

Again the CA are working to simplify the whole situation, which is a dogs dinner to say the least.  At the same time they are suggesting a cruising visa to be associated with TEPAI that will allow Brits (post Brexit) and none EU citizens to stay longer than the 90 days in 180 restriction under Schengen rules. 

I have been asked to prove TEPAI twice this summer. Once on the water at anchor and again when my DEKPA was stamped in September.

Currently it is a €500 fine for not having an up to date DEKPA stamp. €1,500 for not having TEPAI. €50,000 for unlicensed chartering of a yacht! Accepting money from guests for anything above that considered to be 'cost sharing' is classed as charter. I know of three boats being impounded on Ithica under this last law.

Incidentally, If you have paid to leave your boat ashore you must be given a receipt by law. This applies to all business transactions in Greece.

[Mistroma]

Alenka's information agrees with my understanding as well and that you need to declare a boat "out of use" if left afloat without TEPAI payment. I have heard of problems at Gouvia where people have had problems getting the correct advice from Port Police for boats afloat over winter. I don't think most small offices have any facilities to store documents securely for boats "out of use".

Reaction of Port Police varies as you'd expect. I haven't run into any with even a slight interest in TEPAI but imagine that will change. However, I did meet one couple who mentioned visits from a RIB and specific examination of TEPAI payment.

I'm not expecting any problems as I'll be ashore and DEKPA doesn't need a stamp until mid. 2020. An invoice from the yard should be fine but I appreciate Vasko's comment about getting an invoice. I managed to get one for last winter but it was a dodgy piece of handwritten notepaper. I know what the law says but you aren't in a good position when sitting ashore and it has always been simpler to take the line of least resistance.

[vasko]

What I’m planing to do is as following:

1. I have paid TEPAI till end OCT
2. First week of NOV I’m getting my boat on the hard
3. First week of MAY(2020) I’m getting my boat back in tbe water
4. Pay TEPAI from MAY(2020) till OCT(2020)
5. Stamp my DEKPA in AUG(2020) when it is due

My understand from reading TEPAI documents is that you are liable to penalty if you are checked while boat is in use but TEPAI is not paid.

That is just my interpretation and everyone should do whatever he deem right for his case/boat.

ALL this assuming Brexit will not happened - if Brexit happened then all my strategy may change as I do not have the issue with 90 days for me but will need to change the boat registration - most likely to Polish as it does not expire (ever - e.g one off) it is easy and no issues (I’m not polish myself)

[alenka]

My understand from reading TEPAI documents is that you are liable to penalty if you are checked while boat is in use but TEPAI is not paid.

Correct. 'In use' is interpreted by the majority of port police as being in the water regardless if it is left at anchor, on a public quayside, etc.
'Out of use' has to be formally declared when in the water or proven by being physically out of the water. A contract, receipt or certificate from a yard is deemed sufficient.

More people have been checked for TEPAI on a quayside rather than being stopped at sea. 

If Brexit happened then all my strategy may change as I do not have the issue with 90 days for me but will need to change the boat registration.

The 90 day issue is generally with the person not the boat if it is VAT paid.  The EU say that any UK boat in the EU on Brexit day will be given EU VAT paid status. How you prove the boat is in EU waters seems a bit hazy and this offer may change if we simply crash out without a deal.

Most owners have adopted belt and braces and acquired a T2L which is regarded in some countries, Portugal and Croatia for instance, as better proof that VAT has been paid rather than the original VAT sales invoice. It costs nothing to get a T2L but I suspect you need to do it before Oct 31st.... Unless there is another extension. 
Registration in any country does not confirm VAT has been paid.

[vasko]

The important question when checked in harbour or at anchor is : is someone living/staying on board or just has passed around to check if the boat is OK - if someone is staying on board then the boat is in use.

btw: I checked with two Italian and one Greek boats around me in the marina - their view is same as mine - but as I said before it is personal choice what to do as the penalty is personal

[alenka]

As the fine for getting things wrong is a €1,500 I would be asking port police and getting their agreement rather than people on surrounding boats.  Just remember to get things in writing. The officer giving you advice today might not be on duty when you return for a new DEKPA stamp.

The complexity of this tax/situation is brought about to some extent by Greek tax dodging and the determination of the government to stamp it out. We are all caught in the middle.

Part of the smoke screen used by tax dodgers is to register in Delaware but that costs money so many just pretend to be foreign registered. Usually British.  These boats are generally easy to spot.  They fly a Union Jack flag believing this to be the correct flag - they don't understand what an Ensign is thinking it is Australian or NZ.  They don't want to get caught up being checked for a transit log. 

The problem is not as great in the Ionian as the Athens area where Greeks don't want their expensive motor yachts assessed in their wealth tax, but we are all suffering the fall out. 

Good luck!

[hoppy]

My Australian red ensign confused the hell out of some people

I'm rather glad that I don't have to deal with the TEPAI rubbish.