NC 895 Towing

[westboating]

Hey all,

     I've asked this on the 895 (getting a bit lengthy) thread, and no bites yet, but does anyone have experience towing an 895.  I'm planning on hauling mine a few times each year, not over the continental divide or anything just 120 one way to the sound from the Columbia. 

     I'm tight on weight and the factory dry weight 6,746 + 2 x Amazing Yamaha 200s (487 each) gives you 7,720.  We topped her off today and dropped her off for a 20 hour service on the engines and a little warranty work.  I asked Sundance to pass a weight from the haul out.  They told me today she weighed in at 11,000.  I seem to remember them telling me it was 14,000 when they dropped her in the first time.  When we launched her, I was told the lift scale is suited to much larger boats and they were skeptical that she could be double the factory spec.

     The full tanks should be 750lbs give or take.  We've loaded her with safety equipment, lines, fenders, anchor, anchor chain, small tool box, PFDs, and a boat hook.  The water tank might be 1/4 full of antifreeze.  We have the diesel heater with a half tank too.  None of this should add up to 3,280 pounds.  My estimate is she should be no more than 9K after adding all that and a few more cats and dogs.

     I'm planning on running her across a scale on the trailer to get another data point.  I'm hoping she'll be less than 10.5K with the trailer (if not, anyone know where I can get an F350 for under $65K...ha).

     Anyone have any towing or weight experience with the 895s?

Thanks,

West

[lynnardm]

Hi West,

As I mentioned in the other thread I'd also like to know the weight, not that I plan to tow my 895.   Goodness, if she weighed 11000 pounds I don't think my F300 would get her on plan nearly as quick as it does.  I haven't weighed the boat, but I did numerous calculations to support the substantial prop testing that I did.  I started out with a higher base number at 7000 lbs rather than 6746 as the offshore should be heavier than the standard boat.  Then I added the F300, estimates for the factory options, the options I installed after the factory, and all the other variables such as fuel, water, waste, diesel, gear for a day or a week, and people.  The calculated weights varied over a couple of months from a low (for example when the tanks were almost empty) of 8490 to a high of 9510.  So you are right in middle of my calculations at 9000 pounds.  I don't know what your trailer weighs but it certainly needs to be beefy which means heavy.  I expect with trailer you will be well over 10,500 lbs.  Sorry, I only have a Ram 1500  :')

Captn Lynn

[MartyB]

A GM 1590 with the 6.2 and high tow pkg. IE 3.73 rear end, 4400lb grawr would do a 11000 lb trailer. Ford has a 150 with a 5000 grawr too.
Reality, is one needs a 25 series if you figure hitch weight us 1200-1500 lbs, add in a person or three in cab, you need 2000-2500 lbs of payload. You will not get that with a 15 series truck.
I met one fellow that pulls a 10k boat from Leavenworth to Everett over Stevens without issues with his 6.2 GM 1500 as I mentioned. Power is not an issue, even with the 5.3. The 4.3 has more HP and torque then a BB 454/460/440 in 1980! Better gearing, transmission ratios etc.
If you go diesel, no need, you would want a 35 series, as that option chews up 500-800 lbs of payload! Putting a 25 series on par with a 15, both about literally a ton of payload.
For two times a year, hertz has 25/35 series pickups you can rent. I'm also assuming the boat is kept.in water all year. If always on a trailer, then buy a truck up to task.
Marty

[westboating]

Thanks for the thoughts Marty.  I've been nit picking the numbers on what is at or under spec for the F150 3.5 eco boost for a while.  The GVWR and combined GVWR are limiting.  The combined (everything, boat, trailer, truck, PAX, and gear) vehicle weight rating is 16,900.  I took the truck over the scales with me and a full tank of gas.  We weighted in at 5,400.  That leaves me with 11,500.  The max for the truck is 7,000.  So, you add family and junk and an 1,150 (10%ish) tongue weight you're right about there (my family is pretty skinny, so 450lbs should be plenty).

I'm going to load it on the trailer this spring and weigh the whole rig.  If it's at or under spec, we'll press on, but if I'm over we may just break down and try to rent the monster truck because despite the number of 1 ton truck you see on the road not towing or carrying anything, I'm not about to have one as a daily driver.  Who actually rents the larger trucks i wonder.

Thanks,

Kris

[north34]

West,

Let us know how it comes out this Spring.  I'd be very curious.  I have a ECO F150 too and always figured it was borderline. I figure I'd rent the 350 from Enterprise for the day if I ever towed out.

Thanks,

Brett.

[bradey]

Hi All,

I know my dealer hauled the one I'm taking delivery on early next week (#37) with his Chevy 1500. He said he put some bags in his shocks or something... I'll have to find out what he did exactly. I'm planning to pick it up with my 1500 and pull it about 100 miles, he claims it will be no problem. He took it back and forth from Detroit to Traverse City, MI which is about 255 miles each way.

Any updates on how yours goes, I'll be interested.

Cheers,

Bradey

[MartyB]

I will not quote the other US States laws on towing per say, but do know the Federal and how the states are supposed to enforce the actual weight laws!
The simple thing to know, is you will NEVER be over your max legal weight amounts! assuming you stay under the manufacture weight warranty ratings! As one literally gets, 500 lbs per inch width of tire, to 20,000 lbs of axel, or 34,000 lbs per tandem! For a typical light duty truck, be it a DOT class 1 to 6000 lbs, DOT 2 6001-10,000 lbs, DOT 3 10,001-14,500 lbs. I can go into the class 4-6 medium, or class 7, 8 heavy duty, but not needed.
So for a typical single wheel truck, no matter the class 1-3, most of us have 10-12" wide tires. So 5000-6000 lbs per tire, 10,000-12,000 per axel. How many of us are literally over that amount? NONE! The LEO enforces the engineer design road point load spec, NOT the manufacture performance/warranty spec. You are also good, as long as you have a paid for tax license above the amount you weigh. Mor than likely, an F150 in the state of Washington, has a paid for tag of 8000 lbs. That is the max you can weigh legally, as long as you are under the Federal Bridge Laws, which is where the load amounts I have mentioned come from.
If a state chooses to enforce a manufacture weight rating, they can have their Federal road tax funds with held from them! Its best if a state follows this federal law, or!
An overweight ticket, is not a moving vehicle ticket, assuming you get an over weight ticket! Most of us if we get one, is because a given axel is over the 20K/34K lbs per axel, but under the paid for amount! I have yet in 30 years of driving my commercial trucks over scales etc, to get an over weight ticket. Even when pulled over at 150% of what International/navistar says my class 6 MDT dump truck should weight. As I was under paid for amount, and under the 20K for the rear, and 12,000 for my front axel.
If you were to follow these laws, max out your F150 or equal to 20K per front and rear axel. The local LEO or CVEO have many a ways that will get you off the road, that will be tickets you will not want to deal with. Mostly, you can not field stop your rig at 20 mph in X feet. So you would get a failed brake test, which red tags the rig, puts you on the side of the road until brakes meet spec. OR, you get a truck to carry the setup to a brake repair place. Again, your brakes will not allow you to meet spec.....major ticket, which follows your driving record.
Also, my GM 2500 with a door sticker of 8600 lbs, is only good to go down the road legally on the two axels at 8000 lbs, as that is all I am paid too! My dump truck, door sticker is 18,200, been pulled over at 27,200, no overweight ticket! Other than a 10 day, up paid license to 28000, as my paid license was 26,000 lbs.
With this said, my max for towing behind ANY of the trucks I've used in landscape biz, has been 2x gross rear axel rating. So about 4000 for most 15 series truck, max trailer would be 8000 lbs. 12,000 for my 2500 with a 6K axel. My dump truck, 34,000 or there about with a 16,500 rear axel.
At some point in time, you will find, be you under or over your GCWR, you may get stalled out. Look up J2087 IIRC tow specs. You will realize, you have to only make it up a 12% grade before stalling out. The boat ramp at Coulon Park in Renton to Lake Washington, is 18%. So you 'could" stall or not get your truck to pull up that ramp at your max tow rating, as it is 150% of the minimum spec to meet that rating. I've blown up many an auto trans, burned a number of clutches up with rigs that did not have the correct gearing pulling many of the local 20-30% driveway grades, local roads etc. Freeway grades are easy, max they can legally be is 6%, with short grades at 8%. I've never stalled a rig here!
I can go into more, but follow what I've mentioned, you should be fine overall. Seattle to Portland towing a boat is pretty easy. Not a lot of wind resistance. Pull and RV trailer or equal box, wind resistance is worst. I've got a few numbers I can mention too. Time to go to bed at 10pm, 445 comes too soon!

marty

[westboating]

Marty,

     Thanks again, this is some of the best insight I've found on a forum.  Most just want to say get a bigger truck with no supporting info.  I do find it interesting how many F250 and 350s I see towing what appears well over 5K on the bumper without a weigh distribution system.  When reading up on what ford could handle what load, I noticed all three require a load distribution system over 5k.  Which leads to my next engineering challenge, configuring my trailer for a weight distributing hitch, not easy with a straight tongue and a whole bunch of hardware mounted where you need the crossbeam pole tongue adapter.

[MartyB]

A W/D is not required per state law, only if you have a Ford or equal receiver strength receiver. As above, for warranty purposes only.
Personal experience.... for my 170" WB crew cabs with an 8' bed, once I had around 400 lbs removed from the front axle due to the hitch weight behind the rear axle, is when I found a W/D setup was nice. As then I could use the bars to put the lost transferred weight from from to rear, back to the front. Getting my front tires to steer correctly, and not lose traction locking up stopping.
This amount comes at around 1500+ lbs of hitch weight for an 8500 lb rear suspension. 1200 or so for a 6400 lb suspension. Less yet for a shorter WB and lessor rated rear springs.
My Navistar with a 16k rear suspension, loses 100 lbs at best with my equipment trailer. 1500-1600 lbs hw. About 300 with 8500 35 series dually. 400-450 SW 35 with 6400 springs. My reg cab 2500 at 128" wb, 6000 lb springs loses a lot off the front. So much I do not pull this trailer unless I have too, or load trailer. Handling sucks!
Also, surge brakes can not use a W/D system. I recall on brand that works, generally speaking, you will need electric brakes on trailer for a W/D system.
Enjoy day. In Portage Bay waiting for the opening day parade, flying spinnaker thru Montlake Cut, M section of parade....

Marty

[dwp]

Hi all,

New member here although I have been viewing for some time.  I picked up my NC 895 with twin Yamaha 200 outboards today in Portland and stopped at the Cat scales at the Loves in Napavine. The trailer axle weight was 11920.  The Weigh Safe hitch indicated between 700 and 800 on the hitch. All fluids (gas, water, diesel) on the boat are topped off so it would be hard to get it any heavier - just worked out that way. I am towing with a 2016 diesel Silverado 2500 and the truck weight, trailer weight, and combined weight (20,760) are all within GM stated limits for this model.  Regards, DWP

[dogbreath]

May 22, 2019 3:00:56 GMT dwp said:

Hi all,

New member here although I have been viewing for some time.  I picked up my NC 895 with twin Yamaha 200 outboards today in Portland and stopped at the Cat scales at the Loves in Napavine. The trailer axle weight was 11920.  The Weigh Safe hitch indicated between 700 and 800 on the hitch. All fluids (gas, water, diesel) on the boat are topped off so it would be hard to get it any heavier - just worked out that way. I am towing with a 2016 diesel Silverado 2500 and the truck weight, trailer weight, and combined weight (20,760) are all within GM stated limits for this model.  Regards, DWP

DWP - Thanks for stopping at the scales. I have been watching this thread for this information. Given your numbers, what would be your estimate on the weight of just the boat as you described above (twin 200s, all fluids, etc.)? Dogbreath

[rene460]

Hi DWP, a big welcome to you and all the others who have joined today.  And especially good to have several making a first post.

You will find many friendly and helpful people here and a wealth of information in the archives for you to trawl through when the evening Tele programs are a bit ordinary.  Power and sail share many aspects and systems.

We look forward to hearing about your adventures as you get to know your new boat.

rene460

[dwp]

May 22, 2019 5:13:52 GMT dogbreath said:

May 22, 2019 3:00:56 GMT dwp said:

Hi all,

New member here although I have been viewing for some time.  I picked up my NC 895 with twin Yamaha 200 outboards today in Portland and stopped at the Cat scales at the Loves in Napavine. The trailer axle weight was 11920.  The Weigh Safe hitch indicated between 700 and 800 on the hitch. All fluids (gas, water, diesel) on the boat are topped off so it would be hard to get it any heavier - just worked out that way. I am towing with a 2016 diesel Silverado 2500 and the truck weight, trailer weight, and combined weight (20,760) are all within GM stated limits for this model.  Regards, DWP

DWP - Thanks for stopping at the scales. I have been watching this thread for this information. Given your numbers, what would be your estimate on the weight of just the boat as you described above (twin 200s, all fluids, etc.)? Dogbreath

Hi Dogbreath,  If you add the scale and hitch weight and subtract the trailer weight you end up somewhere around 10,700 for the fully loaded boat.  I arrived at trailer weight by subtracting the trailers rated load weight from its maximum weight.  The hitch weight is a bit of a guess because the Weigh Safe scale is a little hard to read - at least for me. 

[jimmyz]

Hello all,


    I am a little late to this thread as my wife and I are planning to order a new 2022 NC 895 Weekender, but had similar question about the full 'wet' weight.  We will not be towing this boat, but I plan to put her on my 2 year old Hi -Tide lift that has a 12,000lb capacity.  I called the Hi-Tide lift manufacturer and they said she should come in right under 12K lbs fully loaded, but that does not account for any passengers on the boat as lifted.  I feel; this was overly conservative on their part as they said estimate the motors at 2K lbs with all fluids!  My order will have Merc 225s (x2) at 475lbs dry weight, and Im also ordering a generator and AC.


        Question - what are your thoughts on the fully loaded wet with all tanks full, + gear and equipment.  Do I need to think of switching to a 16,000 lb lift before delivery? 

        Thank you,

        JimmyZ - excited future 895 owner.