SO 34.2 Downwind

[so40gtb]

We're debating what the best investments are to improve downwind speed on our '01 SO34.2. The options identified are a whisker pole and a cruising chute. Ultimately, both should be available, to deal with varying conditions.

But which to do first? We sail on Lake Michigan, where the winds vary dramatically by season. While this certainly argues for both additions, it doesn't help us prioritize.

It appears that implementing a cruising chute necessitates adding turning blocks aft, at the least, and perhaps one new line up the mast, for the dousing sleeve.

The whisker pole can use the second jib halyard as its foreguy, but it will need some mast modifications for pivot point mounting, perhaps.

Has anyone gone down this road? What are your opinions? (Yes, I know, sell the boat to someone who doesn't care about the finer points of sail and trim and buy a vintage C&C owned by a performance fanatic!).

-- Karl

[Geoff]

Karl

I have an SO36i on to which I had the Asymetric option fitted. This involved losing the port fairlead so that the pole could go through it and indeed we do have 2 turning blocks aft.

The asymetric has a snuffler on it and this is integral with the whole suystem as the halyard is attached to the snuffler as is the asymetric.

There is then a continuous line that runs up the inside of the snuffler and this is pulled to release the chute and to douse it again.

We went this route asnormally it is only the 2 of us sailing the boat. We put the autopilot on and I rig it on the foredeck in a matter of minutes.

The other week we had 12.5 knots with 8 knots of wind as the apparent wind angle went forward and we could bear away.

We are really pleased with it as it is so easy to use.

Hope this helps.

Geoff.

[MartyB]

For a whisker pole, unless you have a really BIG and HEAVY one, you should be able to use with out a topping lift or equal for the pole. Granted mine is a 10-18' alum whisker pole, I toss mine around with no issues. I think it weighs less than 15-20 lbs. I have not used with a AS as of yet, tried a few weeks back, wind was light, spouse wanted to go forward to where we were going for the weekend, so that attempt was a bust per say. But think it will work wing on wing. OTherwise, an AS does not need a pole.

As far as for halyards, I have three, two on the outside for of the mast, one in the middle which is the designated spin halyard, the other two are for the jibs or an extra spin if need be.

I have two blocks in the back corners for the AS spin sheets, that then run slightly forward to my genoa winches. A tack line on the port side from the cabin top to the bow and on a block to raise and lower the clew.

So no new lines as far as when I got my boat. Other than AS sheets etc. The snuffer is like Geoffs, that line is intregal with the sock itself, the only issue I have had, is where to tie that line when hoisted. I typically use a forward dock cleat.

Marty

[Geoff]

Marty

I have had my topping lift led aft to a spare clutch and I tie the the snuffer rope to the now spare cleat on the mast.

BRGDS.

Geoff.

[MartyB]

Geoff,

A mast cleat would be nice, but the one cleat I have is a bit small for the line size on the snuffer. I will probably at some point in time install another cleat that is big enough.

I will probably install a topping lift for a spin/whisker pole at some point in time. As I plan to get a symetric spin for racing that is 100sq ft more than my asymetric and a bit better for deep downwind situations which I have here. You seem to be either going upwind, or downwind, never reaching a lot. That line is about half way up the mast or there abouts. Or what I am thinking is a toping lift, may be for the mast ring, so one can adjust that from the cockpit.

Marty

[Deleted]

I also have a SO34.2 we use the pole down wind in 15 + knots the other friday night racing we poled out in 22 knots and did 8.7 knots the boats with kites did not catch up we also have a spinny given to me by a friend wich came off his Hustler 32 wich works well I have fitted additional ubolts on the rear deck for truning blocks we also use the spiiny sheets as reaching lines with a block on the tow rail at midships this does increase the boat speed by over 1 knot on a two sail reach

Paul

[Tim]

An asy is a pretty good kite option for a cruising boat but not easy to go too deep without a sprit. You need a very adjustable tack line and have to pick your angles based on wind speed. In light airs you'll need plenty of tack line on and have to poke the boat up to keep kite happy and the apparent up. In heavy air you can give the tack line a big ease (nearly a couple of metres depending on boat size) and give the kite a lot of air on the sheet. If the kite's well cut and not a dedicated code 0 / 1 the luff should project well out to windward and allow you to sail pretty deep angles.

A quick word of warning - be wary of fitting blocks to toe rails unless they are bolted through the deck. Many modern yacht have toe rails only screwed in (as they aren't holding the deck to the hull) which won't be up to the job for a kite in a decent breeze.

[so40gtb]

Thanks for the useful info so far. I'm going to experiment with a "poor man's whisker pole" this weekend, assembled from PVC pipe at the prohibitive cost of $20. A very experienced fellow in our marina has one of these on his racing-modified Catalina 36-II and swears by it. Though not a long-term solution, it will familiarize us with the potential of a "real" pole.

I especially like the idea of mounting loops astern and attaching blocks & lines only when needed to fly the chute, as that keeps everything a bit more tidy and permits the blocks to adapt to the sheet angles dynamically.

Have any of the SO34.2 folks responding replaced their OEM Elvstrom sails? If so, were the differences significant? Mine were reconditioned over the winter, look better, but don't really sail any better.

-- Karl

[MartyB]

I have a new UK Tape Drive coming a the end of the month. Along with I am going to try a North X5 laminate tonight that I am borrowing, with the intent if it fits etc to buy.

From folks at YC where I race, ALL have commented that for our rigs, that a GOOD genoa is needed, such as the top end laminates etc will help with speed, save on sideways drift, point higher, less heel etc. The main......if generally cruising/day sailing, then a dacron main seems to work fine. A couple with a Hunter 27 tow over from me, bought a full batten UK Dac main, along with a Tape drive carbon 155 genoa, with two reefs built in a few weeks ago. They were out over the 4th weekend, have not had a chance to see how it worked vs the dacs they had. Another boat kiddy corner from me, bought a UK dac full batten main. He is liking how it sails too. Altho still learning the idiosyncrasies of a full batten main vs the partials he has sailed in the past. My main will be a top 2 full, bottom 2 partial and loose footed. For the racing I like to do, it was felt the upgrade to a tape drive would be worth it for the extra speed over a dacron for my purpose.

There are some different varieties of dacron, ie a high thread count vs a lower thread count, that weigh the same per yd if you will, but the higher thread count will have less stretch, last longer etc.

Marty

[davideso37]

A whisker pole is one of the more economical go fast ideas. It does however have to be heavy enough to take the large loads. I have a 5 metre pole on our SO37 combined with a 155% LP geona which we use for "no extras" club racing. In 15kts it keeps us up with the SF37 downwind.

We have the full spinnaker gear too but it gets much less use than the oversize whisker pole

David.

[so40gtb]

Is the foot of your 155 genoa 5 metres long, matching your pole length?

[davideso37]

The whisker pole length was selected for the original 140% genoa so by rights the larger genoa could stand a longer pole. Recommended pole length is up to 100% of the actual foot length. You can get adjustable ones from www.forespar.com/onlineCatalog/2007/2007whisker_spinnaker_poleSizingChart.pdf . Their recommended size for an adjustable one for the SO37 is 12 ft to 22ft. Now that a whisker pole!! I settled on a 5m fixed pole as a less extreme version and with regard to the weight. This way when cruising I can set the spinnaker on the pole without it being extreme. If doing it again I would go for a carbon fibre fixed length to keep the weight down and would probably stay at 5m for weight considerations and dual use. These whisker poles need to be strong to take compression loads and the longer the pole the larger the diameter needed. You can check the recommended length for your yacht on this site. Before you decide on the size see where you plan to store it on the deck. I have one end clipped to the shroud turnbuckle and the other resting on the pulpit teak seat. It sits there nicely alongside the furler and can be tied to the pulpit if you are rolling around in heavy seas. I also have a regulation length pole at 100% of the J measurement but it does not get used. Regarding the 155% LP genoa, North Sails modelled the sail plan and up to 165%LP is acceptable. We run out of track at about 160%LP so I settled for 155%.
Regards
David

[MartyB]

Something to think about for pole length, at least us in the US that race under PHRF. Max ple length does vary by area, from "J" measure to 80% of LP of the Genoa from a 120 and larger, then the shortest is "J" for a jib smaller than 120. Hence why some of us choose to have adjustable poles for NFS racing. On the other hand, if you want longer pole for genoa use, and use the longer pole racing, take the 3 or 6 sec per mile reduction in time with the spinaker up and head on your way.

Marty