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Post by hoppy on Jun 23, 2017 1:58:07 GMT
My genoa sheets are connected to the sail by bow line knots and the knot regularly catches the stays when tacking. I've just lived with the annoyance but now that I am racing I want to start improving the tacking. Does anyone have a better knot suggestion for my current sheets? When I look on google, all of the promising solutions are not suited to my existing ropes. At some point I will probably look at changing the ropes (dynema core), either before or when I upgrade the genoa to a laminate. But which is the best way to connect the sheet to minimise catching on the stays. A single sheet is a simple idea but no good if I ever was to need to change sails when racing (would perhaps consider this if I was still cruising and needed new sheets)  i.postimg.cc/Mpf1y6Cj/jib-sheet.jpgAnyone have any experience with these setups or know a better solution? Getting loops on the end of the sheet and using a soft shackle  A hard shackle  |
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Post by MartyB on Jun 23, 2017 4:00:55 GMT
Single knot as noted. A set of sheets for each sail. This way I have 3/16" sheets for drifter in winds to 5 knots 5/16 or 3/8" sheets for heavier air jibs. 3/8" sheets are too heavy for drifter in the winds used.
You should at least have two sets of sheets, under 10, over 10 knots. Or there about.
Marty
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Post by rene460 on Jun 23, 2017 5:48:54 GMT
Hi hoppy,
My SO30i only has a 105% jib, so the bowlines do not cause a problem. I don't like hard shackles, if you get in a position where they are flailing around, they can really hurt.
On my previous boat, I used a bowline on a bight in the middle of a single sheet. This knot produces two loops. I worked the ropes through so one loop was about twice the length of the other. The short one goes through the clew, and the longer one goes through the loop of the short one so it cannot pull back through the clew eye and locks it in place. Sort of like a soft shackle, which is a "modern" development of the idea. Easily released from the clew for a sail change and locked onto the new sail. Especially if you have smaller diameter light weather sheets, it can be made quite compact, and it won't crack your head open. If your clew eye is large enough for it to pull through, then I have seen it done with a Turks head, or even a thumb knot in the middle of the larger loop.
I never have got the hang of adding photos, even with all the instructions, but if you pm me with an email address, I will tie one and send you a photo of you need it. It was suggested to me by the sailmaker, and never let me down in nearly 20 years. Worth a try if you already have a long single sheet. I never like cutting a perfectly good length of rope if I can avoid it!
rene460
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Post by hoppy on Jun 23, 2017 14:29:14 GMT
Single knot as noted. A set of sheets for each sail. This way I have 3/16" sheets for drifter in winds to 5 knots 5/16 or 3/8" sheets for heavier air jibs. 3/8" sheets are too heavy for drifter in the winds used. You should at least have two sets of sheets, under 10, over 10 knots. Or there about. Marty With my current heavy cruising genoa I suspect that light wind sheets would make little improvement, but I see the point if I upgrade to a nice lightweight laminate. Mind you getting lighter sheets for I disagreey's has always been something I thought I should do. I was looking online at prices for racing dynema sheets and it got me wondering if I can downsize the recommended sheet diameter. Jeanneau recommends 14mm (9/16 in outdated measurements) for genoa sheets. My current 14mm Liros cruising sheets are rated with a breaking load of 3800daN and their 8mm Dynema core racer line is also rated at 3800daN. 8mm would be crazy and may not work well on the winch, but 12mm would be fine. 10mm might feel a little strange but with 5000daN would be fine I guess. |
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Post by jdl01 on Jun 23, 2017 15:07:14 GMT
I've been going with looped ends in my sheets and a soft shackle. Quick change over for racing and no metal to whack any one in the head.
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Post by lennies on Jun 30, 2017 15:45:02 GMT
With all these cruising folks on this forum I can't believe someone didn't mention the classic knot for this application...It's not good for your racing, but the OLD standby knot to use is a left-handed bowline and a right-handed bowline. They must be tied appropriately so as not to catch on rigging when tacking.
Personally I like a soft shackle hooked to port and starboard lines. It's quick to change and light.
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Post by hoppy on Jun 30, 2017 23:49:35 GMT
With all these cruising folks on this forum I can't believe someone didn't mention the classic knot for this application...It's not good for your racing, but the OLD standby knot to use is a left-handed bowline and a right-handed bowline. They must be tied appropriately so as not to catch on rigging when tacking. Hmmm, good idea. I guess I have 2 right hand bowlines at the moment. Must try a leftie... |
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Post by so36idavid on Jul 2, 2017 5:10:25 GMT
14mm sheets seem pretty thick to me. I'm guessing that the lines Jeanneau supplied were not exactly high tech. A 14 mm dyneema line could comfortably lift your boat out of the water. Honestly any modern line should be more than strong enough for your sheets at 10mm and above, even less for something like Dyneema. Of course thin lines would tear your hands up so go with whatever size feels good in your hand (and wallet). B.t.w. if you want to figure out the loads on your lines you can use the Harken load calculators. For an SO40 with a 100% jib in 25 kts it gives a load of about 420 kg. That's about 1/6 of the working load on 10mm Dyneema. You'd start edging up to the working load at around 60 kts. If there's that much wind out on the race course I suggest that you retire to the yacht club bar for a dark and stormy! David P.S. If you want to spend money on expensive lines, spend it on halyards. Stretchy/creepy halyards are dreadful. |
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Post by no3l on Aug 12, 2017 8:17:43 GMT
Hi
I got new sheets this season and am using soft shackles. They are very neat and have proved very successful, we are just back from a month sailing and I didn't have any problems with the sheets catching.
I specified small eyes (no timbles) spliced into the new sheets and made the shackles myself.
Noel
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Post by pipemma on Aug 28, 2017 17:17:03 GMT
I too have new genoa sheets this season. The old ones were 18 mm (!) and hooked up all the time. New are 14 mm and fit the winches too! Vast improvement
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Post by boltnbrew on Sept 11, 2017 6:39:10 GMT
I just purchase 2x the length of regular single sheet length of line and find the half way point. Then use a simple cow hitch to attach to the clew, lead one end down either side of the vessel. Benefits are small as possible knot at the clew and minimal turns of the line in making the knot- potentially a way to minimize decrease in maximum workinG load as compared to bow lines.
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bj
Junior Member
Posts: 22 
Jeanneau Model: SO 45.2
Yacht Name: Atair
Home Port: Stockholm
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Post by bj on Sept 11, 2017 8:49:52 GMT
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Post by pdodds on Sept 11, 2017 15:14:11 GMT
I too have new genoa sheets this season. The old ones were 18 mm (!) and hooked up all the time. New are 14 mm and fit the winches too! Vast improvement Pipemma... what size winches do you have??? And what model boat?? |
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Post by pipemma on Sept 15, 2017 15:50:13 GMT
I too have new genoa sheets this season. The old ones were 18 mm (!) and hooked up all the time. New are 14 mm and fit the winches too! Vast improvement Pipemma... what size winches do you have??? And what model boat?? SO44i. Harken 50s I believe (not at the boat to check right now) |
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Post by MalcolmP on Sept 15, 2017 19:49:27 GMT
I like this one  |
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Post by Don Reaves on Sept 15, 2017 23:46:11 GMT
That is indeed a neat idea, and it's even color coded for port and starboard. I'm going to have to learn how to do an end-to-end splice with a thimble in it!
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Post by MalcolmP on Sept 16, 2017 6:04:08 GMT
That is indeed a neat idea, and it's even color coded for port and starboard. I'm going to have to learn how to do an end-to-end splice with a thimble in it! Don please write it up with photos if you do |
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Post by Don Reaves on Sept 17, 2017 11:34:11 GMT
After doing some research, this splice seem to be similar to the end-for-end splice from Samson ropes. Instructions are at this link. This splice leaves a small space between the two ropes, as can be seen clearly in step 10. My guess is that by properly sizing things, you could insert a round thimble into this hole and finish it nicely, as done by SVB in their product. I have never had a splice come apart, but the hardest part for me is to get everything tensioned exactly right while finishing up. I suspect that I might end up with a mess at the thimble. I might try anyway, if I can find a suitable thimble. Their other product doesn't use a thimble, and seems to be the same splice with a rope shackle inserted through the opening. Don  |
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