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Post by erkan on Dec 22, 2014 11:12:30 GMT
Dear All, I am having problems when furling my genoa due to the wrong angle between the halyard and the mast as can be seen in the attached picture. The system is original ie neither the furling nor the halyard were changed. Are there any suggestions please? Erkan  |
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Post by MalcolmP on Dec 22, 2014 11:19:53 GMT
Hi Erkan You need to deflect the halyard with block or fairlead www.seateach.com/Halyard-Diverter-Fairlead.htm, there are quite a few styles, Have a chat with a rigger, will need to be strongly installed eg at least pop rivets, not self tappers   |
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Post by erkan on Dec 22, 2014 11:29:26 GMT
Thanks a lot MalcolmP,
Some of my friends say that the top disk has no function, it can be removed (cut) and the problem can be solved. This looks easier and cheaper, but then I ask myself "why they install this part if it useless?". Do you have an idea on its function?
Brgds,
Erkan
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Post by rxc on Dec 22, 2014 15:10:16 GMT
I would not remove the top piece. It looks like it is part of the upper bearing for the tube. It is plastic that bears on the headstay, and if you remove it you will have the metal tube bearing on the headstay, which is VERY BAD. Malcolm has the right idea. You can buy a small block, or even just a bullseye, to get the right angle for the halliard to the attachment point. On my old boat, I had the original instruction manual for the furler and it was very insistent about this - the angle that the halliard makes to the forestay is critial to make sure you don't suffer from the deadly "halliard wrap.
The manufacturer of your furler should have a website with the installation instructions, and they should talk about this..
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Post by ianpowolny on Dec 22, 2014 16:05:31 GMT
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Post by hoppy on Dec 22, 2014 19:07:26 GMT
Are you sure your furling problem is related to the deflector? This is my masthead and I have no problems with the furling. On the other hand I struggle to get sufficient luft tension to the point that I thought the sail was too tall for the forestay  I did have problems with the furling last year but that was related to a rivet down near the roller rubbing against the forestay requiring it to be replaced |
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Post by jdl01 on Dec 22, 2014 19:22:39 GMT
I endorse Malcolm's solution of a padeye or block below the halyard exit box. This is a factory basic on many rigs including C&C and Tartan.
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Post by rxc on Dec 22, 2014 20:36:54 GMT
Ahhh... now I see what that piece of plasic is. I think it is intended to get you the right angle to the top swivel. But your extrusion is too long to get the right angle. I have a bullseye on my mast to accomplish this, and I think that is a better idea than these disks. It looks to me like they could be counterproductive if your halliard does not slide along the radius of the disk, or if the disk does not rotate around the forestay.
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Post by hoppy on Dec 22, 2014 20:37:36 GMT
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Post by hoppy on Dec 22, 2014 20:44:04 GMT
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Post by erkan on Dec 23, 2014 7:59:48 GMT
Thank you all,
Now I understand that the plastic piece is a halyard deflector itself, not a bearing. So, my problem may be the friction between the disc and the alu tube. I believe I should move it upwards several cm.
If this does not work, it maybe some rivets, bearing problems as mentioned by rcx.
I did not have problems for years, so "missing deflector block" could not be today's problem!
Erkan
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Post by electricmonk on Dec 24, 2014 9:44:07 GMT
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Post by rene460 on Dec 26, 2014 9:20:44 GMT
Hi erkan,
The basic issue is that a halliard parallel to the forestay has practically no ability to apply the counter torque necessary to prevent the halliard wrapping. On the other hand a halliard at right angles to the forestay cannot apply any luff tension. The 15 deg recommended by manufacturers is the compromise to adequately achieve both.
The best answer is for the halliard exit block on the mast to be far enough below the forestay attachment to achieve the necessary angle, as supplied by Selden on my SO30i. Even this solution requires the swivel to be set at the correct height. Alternatively a deflector on the mast at the right height as suggested in earlier posts. The disk is still good for keeping other halliards clear, like the blue rope in hoppy's picture.
The disc (which must be fixed against rotation per Profurl brochure) provides friction to prevent the halliard sliding around, while hopefully not too much so that it prevents luff tensioning. The cut out mentioned by electricmonk ensures the halliard cannot roll around the disk. A disk without cutout requires sufficient deflection to cause enough friction in the circumferential direction. The swivel must be close under the disk to ensure enough deflection, and the halliard adequately tensioned.
If you have had no trouble until now then the cause may be any of 1) the halliard tension/luff tension is not enough to provide the necessary friction, 2) the swivel friction has increased, or 3) you may have adjusted the height of the sail perhaps by pulling it down to the drum at the bottom so the top swivel is now too far below the deflector. Each of these have their own applicable causes and cures, and all are relatively simple to fix.
rene460
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Post by Mistroma on Dec 29, 2014 20:12:31 GMT
We had the same a problem in 2013 on our 42DS. The halyard had moved away from the deflector disk and one suggestion was that the luff had stretched. I thought that was odd as pulling from a slightly greater angle would resist the rotation better (though probably make the bearing stiffer as well, so making it worse in that respect). Obviously not the issue in your case.
I finally solved the problem by removing the upper bearing. It's pretty easy to do with mast up and I can give details of method we used. You can't dismantle the bearing without special tools and so I simply removed both sealing rings and rinsed it through with diesel. Despite greasing the seals annually, an amazing amount of black gritty material washed out. Once the diesel was clear I left the bearing in the sun for 4-5 days to dry out. I flooded the top with a Holts PTFE Pro-Lube and allowed it to soak into the interior. It was thin enough to seep inside as I rotated the bearing.
It was still working perfectly at the end of this season and I'd certainly repeat next time I have the problem. It took 5 seasons from new before the problem appeared, so another 2-3 seasons would make the process as good as replacing the entire swivel (and much cheaper).
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Post by erkan on Dec 30, 2014 8:34:08 GMT
Hi Mistroma,
Clening the top bearing may improve the situation. Can I please learn the method to remove it.
We moved the disc up and it worked. But still there is a tendency to wrap around the bearing! It maybe the dirty bearing as you have mentioned above.
Thanks and regards,
Erkan
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Post by erkan on Jun 2, 2016 15:18:08 GMT
I noticed that the topic is not finalized yet:
I decided to dismantle the furling. But the turnbuckles were stuck. I injected brake flued for some days and they released at the end. So the shrouds, forestay and the backstay could be unscrewed. We thougth that the part could be problematic but we saw that it was only dirt! So much work to clean the dirt...
At the I had the chance to adjsut the mast according to instructions after loosing turnbuckles. Now I have a better sailing performance and also easy furling.
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