|
Post by vasko on Nov 5, 2014 14:46:33 GMT
Hi All, I'm after a storm sail(s) - why I need one ? - in brief when I was trapped in 45kts with gusts 52kts+ for one hour when going to island of Tinos/Greece this summer into the wind I was really wanting to have some really small sail let say 1-3 m2 - you all know at this type winds the engine is completely useless no matter how powerful it is... and the boat goes enough mostly only on hull - meaning the hull is working like a sail but never the less I still feel better to have a small duster between the boom and the mast... now the problem that I have : 1. the storm sails are huge - actually not very much smaller then my second reef 2. extremely expensive more then £500 now the question : has some one try to use for example sails from dinghy ( e.g. Mirror Dinghy ) - which can be obtained from ebay about £10-£20 as a storm sails ? I guess my idea is that even if the sail is not usable after one usage - does it actually matter if it costs £10 and is likely to be used once per century ?
|
|
|
Post by ianpowolny on Nov 5, 2014 15:45:04 GMT
Vasko,
Contact Chris here chrisowen@sailtrimcoach.com. Give him your boat details and he may suggest a sail design for you. He is the 'Owen' that used to part own Owen Sails. I've had some really good conversations with him recently.
What do you have for a forestay?
Ian
|
|
|
Post by hoppy on Nov 5, 2014 17:51:27 GMT
How many reefs do you have in the main? I got caught in similar winds between Samos and Mykonos a few years ago. We were on a bean reach and the heavily rolled in headsail and 3 reefs in the main did the trick. However we really could not point any higher and fell well downwind of out destination. I'm happy with 3 reefs in the main but wish I had one of these on that sail uk.storm-bag.com/ It's still on my "to buy" list. Extremely expensive unfortunately
|
|
|
Post by Tafika II on Nov 5, 2014 18:26:08 GMT
The Banner Bay units are great, but as you say...expensive. I have not outfitted a jib storm sail yet, but I'm also considering an ATN Gale Sail. Anyone have any experience with the ATN Gale Sail?
|
|
|
Post by MartyB on Nov 6, 2014 4:46:12 GMT
The issue with trying to use a dinghy sail, is frankly, the cloth will probably be way the heck too light duty for winds in the range you describe.
Your best bet as noted, have a sail maker make something that will be heavy and strong enough to work for you.
Marty
|
|
|
Post by so36idavid on Nov 6, 2014 5:48:51 GMT
I'm going to echo the "deep third reef" sentiment. Deploying a storm sail in 50 kts of wind will be virtually impossible. So you have to think about having it ready beforehand. This will require adding a new track to the mast along with all of the complexity of having a second sail in a bag on deck at all times. Much easier to put in a third reef, although if the boat's not set up for that you'll have to think through how it will work.
Sounds like a lot of work if all you want to do is dodge an hour of bad weather. Have you tried heaving to?
David
|
|
|
Post by hoppy on Nov 6, 2014 6:06:19 GMT
The Banner Bay units are great, but as you say...expensive. I have not outfitted a jib storm sail yet, but I'm also considering an ATN Gale Sail. Anyone have any experience with the ATN Gale Sail? No experience, but in the promotion video it looks a bit fidgety to set up. You really don't want to be putting it on in the weather conditions where you need it Stormbag looks easy by comparison
|
|
|
Post by ianpowolny on Nov 6, 2014 8:27:28 GMT
No I don't think I'll be buying a Gail Sail. The last time we put ours up it had been pre-set on the inner forestay and even then it took a good 20 mins to put up and at times the bow was under the water. There was no way I had more than one hand for the job. I used the other to hold on. That just confirms I'm back to making soft shackles.
Our sail is made from heavy weight sail cloth and is almost bomb proof, we have a deck bag to keep it in on deck and the forestay is Dyneema so storing it when not in use is very easy.
Vasko I think you need to take another look at how to deploy a storm jib. I can't talk about the main as ours is in-mast and only 35m2.
|
|
|
Post by rxc on Nov 6, 2014 19:46:33 GMT
Do you have a RF main, or just a RF jib? The problem with a storm sail is that you have to set it up, and that takes time to do, if you want to do it properly. Usually they are installed in their own track on the mast, with their own sheets to dedicated blocks on deck. And you need another halliard for the sail, unless you plan to take the main down below, which might not be possible if you have to do this quickly.
I have a RF main and jib, and I have a love-hate relationship with the main. Although my new main is quite nice, it is still cut quite flat, so doesn't give as much drive as I would get from a conventional main.
HOWEVER, I can reef BOTH the main and the jib from inside the cockpit, and can take both of them back to tiny little handkerchief sails, without having to go on deck in heavy weather. I sailed in Force 9 conditions with these sails for days at a time, in the Atlantic, and the boat was fine (the pounding was not pleasant). It was controllable and there was no sail handling excitement/anxiety.
So, if you have a RF main and jib, then I would say to stay with them, and just furl them almost all the way in. If you just have a RF jib, then if you are just talking about dealing with a squall line, I would recommend taking a 3rd reef in the main, and just roll the jib to a tiny triangle. If you dont use the storm sail very often, it will take longer to rig it than you will need it. If you are going off shore into the Atlantic, then you might want to spend the money on a real storm sail and do a bit of practicing to make sure that you can pt it up quickly. Or better yet, avoid the nasty weather.
|
|
|
Post by vasko on Nov 7, 2014 9:53:24 GMT
Still I think the idea for second hand good quality dingy sail to be used as a storm sail is worth.. the idea is to use only a small sail with main down attached to the main halyard , one line where the boom connects with the mast a two lines to my spinnaker pulleys and after that on spinnaker winches - e.g. trisail - the correct angle for the sail will be able to be managed by moving up and down the main halyard = the thing that I need is a simple small duster ....
BTW: I had multiple times strong winds around the north cyclades ... and at the time was with my previous boat - bavaria 40 with selden in-mast furling - and I find in-mast furling extremely unreliable especially when you do not want things to go wrong.. in bad weather always somethings jams or the sail cannot get fully in or the endless furling line will break and you may endup with full sail out ... million of problems with in-mast furling in bad weather...
|
|
|
Post by chuckr on Nov 8, 2014 10:11:40 GMT
Like Ian we have inmast and after being out 7 years in all conditions we do not have a storm sail or for that matter an inner forestay. We simply reef the main way down along with the genny and work to balance them out and the boat handles really well when balanced. We spent 3 days in winds in excess of 30k when we crossed the Atlantic with a deeply reefed main and our genny looked like a hanky but the boat was really well balanced and the a/p did not have a lot of work to do.
We do not try to see how fast we can go but how we can handle the wind smoothly and easily and keep the boat from pounding into the seas. In 7+ years we have never had a problem getting the main sail reefed in.
We did look hard at an inner forestay that Jeanneau sells for the this boat before we crossed the Atlantic but decided that it was not necessay if we handled our current sail configuration correctly. We also took a hard look at a Gale Sail and decided that by the time we needed to put it up we were already in do do and going on deck to get it up would be very difficult so decided against it.
|
|
|
Post by ianpowolny on Nov 8, 2014 14:39:09 GMT
All I'll say is we've reefed Affinity's main in up to F8 without issue. Ian
|
|