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Post by horatiohb on Dec 24, 2007 21:43:08 GMT
Been living on our new SO42i in the Caribbean for the last month. Very happy with the boat but had on and off problems with electrics. It appears the 'new' batteries (lead acid) we have are sulphicated and that means they appear to charge up, they certainly fool the battery charger, but in fact they are almost flat. Has anyone else had this problem. We are trying to get them 'super charged' ashore which may recover them, but very happy to hear from anyone with experience. I assume Jeanneau fit them even though we got the boat from a UK Broker.
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Post by Zanshin on Dec 26, 2007 12:26:59 GMT
What charger do you have and have you checked the water levels (perhaps they weren't correctly filled when installed). Also, have you put a voltmeter on the batteries while they are being charged (don't use the one on the instrument panel)? Also, when you charge the batteries how do you do it - via the engine, a generator, solar/wind or shore power?
Some chargers have different settings for the battery types, you might have an incorrect setting.
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Post by horatiohb on Dec 26, 2007 13:32:32 GMT
Sorry - should have put more detail - it is as Sterling international 4 stage charger and can cope with all voltages and frequencies. The batteries will not charge on that or the engine alternator - they reach a point which says they are charged but the hydrometer says they are flat (electrolyte levels are fine). I also have solar panels and a wind generator which put in quite a lot of amps but again the batteries don't respond. I can monitor then whole system with a Matervolt BTM III battery monitor and this shows all the correct voltages (confirmed by my multimeter). I have also tried charging a battery ashore using an 'intelligent' charger and the same happens - the charger says the battery is charged and goes into trickle yet it is actuaully almost completely discharged. The one battery that we put on a high charge eventualy responded and is now taking charge and has passed a load test after 18 hours of charging. Advice elesewhere has suggested 'sulphication' which can occur when batteries are left discharged for some time and give all the characteristics of working but have reached a state where they won't charge. I will get the other two batteris treated ashore like the first and hope to recover them all but am still interested k now who is responsible, ie Jenneau or my UK broker as this has taken a great deal of my time and is going to cost money either way.
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Post by MartyB on Dec 26, 2007 15:59:43 GMT
Have you checked the manufacture date on the batteries? At least here in the states, a manufcture date is on the side?!?! So you would be able to tell of the dealer may have given you an olc set of batteries. If more than 24 months older since the boat was delivered to the dealer, then you have/got dead batteries from the get go! In which case, if you bought a new boat, you should have gotten new batteries, or at least ones as old as the dealers boat delivery date.
Good luck.
Marty
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Post by Zanshin on Dec 26, 2007 19:22:46 GMT
In this case I'd simplify things - the complexity of the boat's systems is irrelevant if a battery won't take a charge when uncoupled from the boat and charged ashore with a normal charger. If the electrolytes in each cell are good and you've used a hydrometer then you really do have a broken battery.
What is your specific gravity on the "almost discharged" one and on the one which finally did take and hold a charge?
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Post by horatiohb on Dec 26, 2007 21:06:01 GMT
zanshin - I agree with you. The dead ones are below the hydrometer reading ie less than 1.15, we got the one ashore up to the green - 1.2 or so before we load tested it - I will know more tomorrow when the engineering firm are back of holiday.
Oh and they don't seem to have a date on them !!
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Post by Zanshin on Dec 27, 2007 11:06:26 GMT
They should have a date somewhere - perhaps pressed into the plastic enclosure or some other indelible marking instead of a sticker. What brand are they?
There are several products on the market that allege to repair sulfated batteries. I think their premise is to use electric pulses that will somehow resonate and mechanically shake the sulphur plating off - I am somewhat skeptical of these products but it might be worth a try for you. Also, perhaps the issue isn't just sulfation but that not enough acid was added to the battery in the first place. Although adding acid to a battery should normally not be done, I wonder if you might not go to a car maintenance shop (one with a battery tester) and ask if they might help.
Are these supposedly new batteries?
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Post by horatiohb on Dec 27, 2007 14:17:36 GMT
New Exide Tudor batteries, presumably fitted by Jeanneau as they are covered in French stickers. On 3 days of shore power they seem to be coming up a bit and the one ashore on the high voltage charger is definitely responding. Google gives all sorts of conflicting advice on sorting out sulfated batteries but time will tell. That said I may ditch them and buy new as I don't want the risk when away from support.
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Post by Zanshin on Dec 27, 2007 15:09:27 GMT
Does the mastervolt system show amps going in and coming out? If you get your batteries charged as much as possible and put them in the system and zero out the monitor you should be able to compute your expected battery hydrometer/specific gravity values after removing x% of the total available amps. I would fight tooth and nail to get this fixed as part of warranty, though...
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Post by MartyB on Dec 27, 2007 18:42:49 GMT
I did not see where you may or may not have done this........but has the boats charging system been checked to see if it is functioning properly? ie not only charging, but overcharging! overcharging will fry a battery too! While I have never bought a new boat, I do buy/replace a new truck every 2-3 yrs or so for my landscape construction biz, and have had a couple with alternators from the get go that were dead, along with one that sat for 2 yrs before I bought it, with dead batteries from lack of use! along with an alternator!
Like zanshin mentioned, there should be an etched number set on the battery saying the manufacture date of it. In the end, it could be a combo of both battery and charging system that is screwed up.
I too would try to make sure above is under warrenty. The battery may not be from jeanneau, but from exide itself. If the charging system is not working or improperly working, then their should be some kind of manufacture warrenty also. Altho, being as you are not in the UK anymore where you bought it. That may or may not pose a problem also. I'm personally not familiar with that kind of issue on a boat. I know if I buy a vehicle i the US, and go to canada on vacation, and the vehicle dies, the manufactures warrenty is not valid. Even tho it may be a rig sold up there, ie a GM or Ford truck as example. Boats being expected to move about, I would think would be a bit different to a degree.
Good luck.
marty
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Post by horatiohb on Dec 27, 2007 21:45:55 GMT
Thanks everyone - I am sure the charging system is OK, the BTM monitor looks at input volts and amps and the boat system tells me demand which I have checked with a muiltimeter to ensure its telling the truth. Its not just the charger but the alternator, wind generator and solar panels which have failed to keep any charge in the batteries. Just dumped the problem with my broker who is my warranty agent and who I know has also just bought a new Jeanneau 45 so he may be very interested in my experience!! Of course they don't come back from holiday until early January by which time I will probalby have fixed it all!!!
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Post by Jeff Motley on Dec 27, 2007 22:37:35 GMT
OK here is a good one, actually true, but sad. The house batteries on my brand new SF35 turned out to be be car batteries, specifically for a Renault, Land Rover or Citroen. All markings were en Francaise, so straight from the factory...Makes you shake your head on a 180k boat, they install car batteries! Anyone buying new, just something else to check.
My dealer is a great guy, but no warranty coverage.
I do love this boat!!
Any one going to the Seattle Boat show?
Jeff
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Post by MartyB on Dec 28, 2007 1:56:04 GMT
Jeff,
I was thinking about that later today, "I wondered if starting batteries were installed instead of deep cycle one?" That happened on a GM pickup I ordered from the factory with a camper extra battery option. Got a starter battery! Fried it real quick using it as a house battery for my RV trailer!
I also hope to get to the show one day, not sure which one. What day are you coming down? Wednesday and Saturday I will be teaching ski lessons, not sure about sunday. The others hopefully I can get to the on water part. altho would like to get inside and look at dingys too!
marty
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Post by Jeff Motley on Dec 28, 2007 19:36:51 GMT
Will most likely be on the Saturday as I will be coming down from Vancouver.
Yes they were starter batteries.....
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Post by jcjglt on Jan 2, 2008 3:56:59 GMT
Owner of a SUN2500 (Outboard engine version), sailed in New Caledonia and having now lived onboard for one year I had also problems with my electric circuitry and my two 12V-70AH batteries. I just removed all the original circuitry between the two batteries and threw it, then rewired them in parallel, added a Xantrec Amps-meter (a pure wonder) and a 55W solar pannel. It all works fine now and provides me withall the necessary electricity (biggest drain from the fridge).
I agree the batteries seem to be very ordinary and the original circuitry not so good and poorly documented in the owner's manual.
Anyway my boat is nice and I call her sometimes "my bicycle" as she is so easy to maneuver...
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