Facnor headsail curler

[ancientmariner1]

The headsail furler on my J36i 2011has be come very stiff. A rigger took a look at it. Flushed the top swivel with dry lubricant, checked the bottom end and our standing rigging tensions. The furler is still stiff in use and groans in an unhealthy way when being operated. He suggested we put a man up the mast to squirt oil down the foil hoping to lubricate the foil bearings. Facnor were no help

Has anybody experienced similar problems. If so did you cure and what did you do?

Thanks

[ianqv]

Hi

I can only advise on what sorted out my Facnor....
Lower the genoa and squirt oil into that top bearing. Make sure that the dust shields are also in place.
Another top tip is to release some tension on the genoa haliard prior to bringing it in.

It worked for me..... hope it does for you to

Regards

Ian

[Mistroma]

I posted a message a little while ago about the same problem after the Furler jammed on my 2009 42DS.
jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2673/furling-problem-facnor-halyard-swivel
No response on the forum so I assumed it was an unusual problem.

I explained the problem to Facnor and asked for a diagram to help dismantle the swivel. They were very good and sent a PDF but it wasn't much help. I removed the swivels, pulled the seal, ring and circlips from top and bottom as shown in the diagram. Unfortunately, I couldn't see any way of getting to the bearing and asked Facnor for help. The reply indicated that I'd need special tools, it was too difficult to explain how to dismantle further and that I needed a new swivel (596 Euro but discount possible).

Facnor did say that putting grease into the swivel would help. However, it is pretty well sealed and you can't squeeze grease into the workings. I tried Pro-lube as it has very low viscosity and flooded both ends (with much squirting, rotating, squirting) before reassembling and re-packing the end seals with lots of grease. I don't believe that the grease in the end seals really lubricates anything, it just stops water getting into the bearing.

A friend also mentioned that his foresail luff stretched enough to give problems furling. Everything was fine after he had the luff shortened by a few inches.

My furler is working again after following:

1) Twisting loops at top/bottom of sail to shorten luff by an inch or so
Can't believe this would be enough to do anything as difference in angle of halyard will be minute. Anything to avoid a new swivel though.

2) Tension on halyard altered
Tightened and then loosened from original marked position (about 1 inch each way). Didn't help when swivel had seized but loosening seems to help now that it is moving again

3) Partial dismantle and flush through
Probably made the biggest difference but removing the swivel was a pain. I'd probably just prise upper & lower lip seals out, clean grease on top and flush with Pro-lube from top.

I'm still apprehensive because the swivel jammed without warning and seemed to be very stiff when tested under load at deck level. I wondered if a Torlon ball had sheared or had a flat. Everything might be fine until the bits aligned with any flat to act as a wedge or just broken pieces jamming again.

It would be so easy to check by dismantling but this doesn't seem to be an option. Really bad design from that point of view (good for Facnor though as only option is to buy a new one).

[Mistroma]

Aug 1, 2013 17:15:11 GMT ancientmariner1 said:

The headsail furler on my J36i 2011has be come very stiff. A rigger took a look at it. Flushed the top swivel with dry lubricant, checked the bottom end and our standing rigging tensions. The furler is still stiff in use and groans in an unhealthy way when being operated. He suggested we put a man up the mast to squirt oil down the foil hoping to lubricate the foil bearings. Facnor were no help

Has anybody experienced similar problems. If so did you cure and what did you do?

Thanks

SUGGESTIONS:

1) Check if the swivel is stiff and that top bearing is OK
I did this by lowering the sail and using a short length of line to tie the swivel to the drum and hauling the halyard to roughly the normal tension. The foil could be turned easily by hand but the swivel was very difficult to rotate. In my case the top bearing was OK but swivel was seized.

2) Flushing with lubricant
Prise off the upper rubber lip seal and clean out the grease underneath before trying to lubricate. I assume that what the rigger did. However, he might possibly have just squirted it under the seal and that wouldn't work.

[ancientmariner1]

Thanks for the comments. We will try the thing you suggested.

We are getting no help from Facnor America. They do not have a spare swivel in stock. Cannot get one from France because the factory is on holiday. The only dealers in east Canada are in Quebec and aware not responding to phones or e mail. Facnor had no suggestions other than replace the unit. Very poor service

[shiook]

My 2010 36i has the same problem. Please keep posting your results. Flushing and lube did not work on mine. I need to take it apart I think. Thank you

[Mistroma]

I tried to dismantle my LS180 swivel and could only get as far as removing the end seals, plastic inserts (held by a metal ring) and circlips.

See attached diagram (FacnorCX_EclateExplodedView.pdf (261.5 KB)): Parts mentioned are 11, 10, 12 and 7 respectively.

However, that seems to be a dead end with no access to the bearings. Facnor just said it was too difficult to explain how to proceed and that special tools were required. I could see a light circular area inside the swivel and wondered if they'd filled a hole and smoothed it over. However, their diagram shows nothing inside that would release the bearings. I doubt it would just be a press fit as that would stress the bearing during assembly.

The picture below shows the bearing cover visible (part 2 in the diagram). You can see that I've flooded it with Pro-lube and that's not going anywhere (a little might have seeped in). I thought about sealing the bottom and using a pump to produce -ve pressure so that Pro-lube would be sucked inside and on the bearings. I could hear the balls moving when I shook the unit so don't think that there's any grease inside.



Attachment Deleted

[Don Reaves]

For 596 Euros, I think it might be worth investigating whether another manufacturer's swivel might work as a replacement part.

Don

[Mistroma]

I wondered about that as well. However, the swivel would need to be exactly the same diameter and fit the shape of the foil. I suspect that's unlikely (probably deliberately on part of manufacturer).

[davideso37]

I presume you have taken the genoa off the furler and checked that the furler turns easily by hand. If the furler is stiff without the sail load then the bearings could be a problem. These are inexpensive bushes at the joins of the furler and if you can replace them yourself it would be a cheap fix. Paying a professional rigger to dismantle and reassemble could be expensive. I have found the Facnor gear very good and easy to maintain. I have a SD genoa furler which is from 2005 but we replaced the bearings in 2010 and they needed replacement so I have that job on a five year replacement schedule.

If the furler turns easily by hand I would check that the swivel is not more than 70 mm down from the top of the furler and that the furler foil finshes very close to the top of the forestay. If the swivel gets too far down the forestay it will not turn. Check that this is not a problem by releasing the tack of the genoa and letting the furler up to within 50 mm of the top of the track and check if it is still hard to turn.

I have modified my SD furler twice, once by putting shorter legs on the bottom to lower the furler closer to the deck and once by converting it to incorporate a turnbuckle housing. Both times the local Australian agent was most helpful and he seemed to get good support from Europe when needed.

I also have a Facnor Gennaker furler which needed a bit of a learning curve but once mastered I am very satisfied with it.

There you are, free plugs for Facnor but after the support they have given me they deserve it.

The photo below shows both gennaker and genoa on Facnor furlers. Pity I got in the way.

Regards

David