Running rigging

[minnewaska]

Is anyone aware of an inventory of lengths and widths for the running rigging on a 54DS?

I measured his weekend. Looking at my notes at home, they say the genoa halyard is skinnier than the main halyard. I would have thought they would be the same, if not the other way around.

[MartyB]

How big is the genoa vs the main? if the main is significantly smaller, then it would make sense for it to be smaller in diam. If not, then they should be the same, or in my case, with a 350# genoa, 190# main, the genoa should be bigger. OR you may also want to look at an upgraded line, in which case it might be smaller in diam yet, and less stretch at a given % of breaking strength.

marty

[debenboy]

Have you looked in your boat manual, that came with the vessel.
On my 36i there is a page with all the info you need.

[minnewaska]

The 135 Genoa is substantially bigger than the main, that's why I thought it seemed odd.

I really have to look into whether my manual is missing chapters. Many often suggest I check it, although, there is nearly nothing useful in it. Certainly not running rigging dimensions.

[MartyB]

Its giving me fits, but I found a 114 page manual online at the main Jeanneau.com site, under old/autress models older than 2010. I did find a page that shows the line sizes etc for all the sheets, halyrds, vang, reef lines etc. But getting pages to go down simple was not working. Not in a mode to print all the pages either........

anciensbateaux.jeanneau.fr/2007/?r=yacht&p=boat&n=238&nl=2

Then click technical specs for the owners manual.

Marty

[MartyB]

anciensbateaux.jeanneau.fr/inventaire/inventaire_2_20100604_SO_54_ds_angl_20042.pdf

there is the owners manual link

found finally after deleting, both main and genoa halyard are supposed to be dynema 12mm and 48M long.

Marty

[minnewaska]

Thank you Marty. That's great. I will have to check this against the manual I have aboard. I think pages must have been removed. I'm having trouble downloading the link, but it may be my computer. Ironically, it stops downloading right before the page with rigging on it. I will check another.

Edit: Got it. Printed it. What a great help.

[MartyB]

Sounds like you were having the same issue I was, it would do some crazy stalling at or about the rigging pages. Glad it worked. 12mm would come out to about a 1/2" line.

marty

[minnewaska]

Are you up to a suggestion on a make/model of jib sheet? I have 16mm (5/8") sheets now, the manual says 14mm (9/16"). Many of the lines I was considering are made no bigger than 12mm.

[MartyB]

I did some research on how I would do it......but I was thinking remembering 1/2" for the sheets. With that, I'll stay with that as I start to type, and maybe you will come up with a what is better per say. Upfront, lets also say, I prefer to start with what was stock per say, and work up or down per say from that end. I also prefer to go to a smaller, stronger, less stretch line than stock per say, because of a gust hits, the line stretches, sail shape is screwed up, so instead of go forward power, one heels more and slows down. While I do race more than cruise, I do not know of too many sailors be them R or C style that like to heel any more than they have to, as flat is fast generally speaking with sailing.

I looked up samson ropes, there equal to NEY sta-set is trophy braid. it is made no bigger than 1/2" so that was my base to work with. it is rated at 6000 lbs, 7 lbs per 100' length, and 3.8% stretch at 30% breaking strength.

Next up in quality is XLS. 1/2" is 8300 lbs, 8.2 lbs er 100 and 2.9% stretch. 7/16 was 6100 at 5.7 lbs. Reality, 7/16 is a pretty good swap IMHO if trying to stay stock per say. not sure about up pricing as I did not look that up, but being smaller diam, probably not too bad of a $$ increase frankly. You mentioned on SN going to 3/4" line, this is available with 19Klbs strength and a whopping 18 lbs per 100'. Yeah maybe easier to handle, but dang near 3 times as heavy as the base 1/2". major drain on sail power in light winds, as the clew will not fly upward going down wind, or upwind when needed too. really bad choice IMHO. The latter is why I like the lighter sheet sizes with the same strength as staset, stronger for heavy winds, lighter and better for light winds.

XLS extra 1/2" is 8700 lbs, 7.7 lbs, and 1% stretch. 7/16" is 6100 lbs and 5.7 lbs wt. Probably the BEST choice back to stock frankly. As mentioned, my choice for lines on my boat.

MLX 1/2" is 15K, 8.2 lbs with 1.4% stretch, 7/16 9500 and 5.8 lbs, 3/8 7200, and 3.8 lbs! 3.8 is half the wt, stronger than base, less stretch yet! if used as a halyard, the part left in the mast when the sail are up, the cover can be stripped, making it lighter yet! potential for some major saving aloft in the mast, so making your boat potentially stiffer!

warpspeed.....1/2" is 21000 lbs, 8.2 lbs and .79% stretch. STRONG SHEET! 7/16" 14K lbs, 5.8 lbs wt, 3/8" 9800 lbs, 3.8 lbs wt, and the 5/16" 6200 lbs and 3 lbs per 100 ft. more wt savings yet! 1/6 of the stretch..............same as MLX, the sheath if stripable for more aloft wt savings when used as a halyard.

I should probably look up NEY staset to see if they have a 9/16" line, what the strength is per say, then one could see where to go from an upgrade smaller, lighter, less stretch line would be in reality. 1/2" XLS or XLS extra frankly is probably a good way to go for sheets etc. Between the two, there is some that are more solid in color, and some that look like staset, more white with small tracer colors. I do not like the latter is well, as solid or more colorful is easier to say, grab the blue, red or green line for when one has rookies of any sort on your boat. Even if they have sailed, know to grab look for a mainsail halyard, if they know it is a blue based line on my boat vs red or green, then less confusion issues.

I am sure NER or the other brand you were looking at have lines of equal type and style, strengths, stretch % etc. The XLS Extra has been better all around for my useage. For a bigger boat like yours, to keep lines light wt and smaller and to a degree easier to use, one needs to go to higher strength lines like the xls extra, warpspeed or MLX. The latter two do come at a price. The xls/xls extra is not as bad of a price increase over sta set.

My thoughts do as you wish with them.

marty

[MartyB]

Now that I looked up staset, it is stronger than I thought for a given size, 9/16 is 11700, 10.1 lbs per 100', 3.5% stretch, 1/2" is 10,100 and 7.8 lbs per 100'.

The NEY ropes seem to be a bit stronger for equal stretch vs samson. Not sure which is better......

NEY t900, would allow one to go smaller with 1.4% stretch 7/16" is 14300, 1/2" is 15700, with 9/16 god to 21750.

The thing you will need to do is figure out what the stock strength is, then shoot for a product that is equal as strong, hopefully less stretch while at it.

marty

[MartyB]

more info from this site
www.sailingusa.info/cal_wind_load.htm

That has a wind load predictor. From it, using the 893# of genoa yo have......
20 knots of wind speed is 1540 lbs,
25 = 2405
40 = 6158

if the genoa is reduced in half to 450
40 knots is 3103
50 = 4850
60 = 6982

SO, using those numbers.........ie a max 7000 lbs of pressure, that would be the minimum size sheet you want, then again, who is going to have 450# of genoa up in 60 knots of wind.......much less all 900 in 40 knots! some of the 1/2" lines like the xls should work in most conditions. Obviously, one may want to go up a bit for some comfort. Reality, at or about 20 knots, and 1500 lbs of pressure, you will be reefing the genoa, if you have not already, same with the main..........I would doubt you would ever have 7000 lbs of pressure on the sheet, at least from a planned on issue. Now caught out, not paying attention, and a gust hits......all bets are off!

marty

[minnewaska]

Marty, that was an outstanding help. I've not seen the actual sail loads for my boat before. The jib sheets that are on her now are standard 5/8" NER Sat-set. If I'm reading the specs correctly, they have 16,000 lbs of tensile strength and weigh 14 lbs/100 ft.

It must be the upsized line that has kept stretch from being much of an issue, given those sail loads. The manual you linked says to use 14mm, although, we have 16mm on. We've had her in 30+, not quite 40, but heavily reefed. We will, however, typically keep all the sails up until 20kts.

I think I will shoot for a lighter line this time. You are right, they are heavy.

Thanks very much! Now, on to abrasion resistance for the jib sheet. You know how they get abused bymthe shrouds, etc. Practical Sailor rated Samson XLS and Warpspeed pretty high. For some reason, XLS extra wasn't as high. Odd.

Thanks again.

[MartyB]

so what was the final result?

[minnewaska]

Apr 10, 2012 14:25:03 GMT MartyB said:

so what was the final result?

I'm close but haven't pulled the trigger. For the jib sheets, abrasion resistence is important to me. I have plain old NER StaSet now and they've performed okay. Practical Sailor really liked the Samson XLS for all of handling, winch and abrasion. It would essentially be the performance I have now. PS rates StaSet as only fair for abrasion and they do look really bad after four years. (we do sail a lot)

I would go for the XLS-extra T, although, PS rated handling and winch as high, they rated abrasion as fair (like the SaySet). I might use it for the main sheet or furling lines instead. Since I use an oversized 5/8 jib sheet, I'm assuming the higher stretch of the lower end lines is offset somewhat by the higher breaking strength of the larger line. In other words, the line doesn't as easily get to a higher percentage of its breaking strength.

Then I went online to find all the colors and sizes I needed and got very frustrated. No one had everything I needed. I need to call a vendor during the day. My commissioning work is usually done either now (5am) or late in the evening. Online is just so much more convenient.

Thank you very much for the input, it was extremely helpful.

Then, as you saw on SN, I stumbled into a house bank fiasco. I'm going to start a new thread here to vet that out too. Nothing seems to be plug and play, does it.