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Post by hoppy on Dec 7, 2011 20:27:15 GMT
I am thinking about getting a gennaker for my SO40 for reaching in light winds. I solo a lot and would like to be able to use the gennaker if possible when solo.
It's been 25 plus years since I sailed with a gennaker and that was on a 27 footer, so I have no idea what it is like to use a snuffer or a roller with the genny and whether they make using the genny solo a doable thing.
From what I have seen on videos, it looks like using a roller should be ok when solo. I'm not sure if the same can be said about a snuffer.
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
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Post by hoppy on Dec 7, 2011 20:33:04 GMT
Assuming I go the roller route, I guess I cannot connect it to the anchor roller because the pullpit seat is in the way, so I guess I need a bowsprit?
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Post by davideso37 on Dec 15, 2011 12:51:41 GMT
Hoppy, I have similar thoughts. I have the SO37 which I believe has a very similar bow roller fitting and pulpit. It looks identical from the photo. I have flown a borrowed gennaker off the hole in the centre of the bow roller and that worked fine for a light day. In the New Year I am contemplating a masthead gennaker which would be a similar size to yours but on a lighter yacht. The gennaker will be just for short handed light air cruising with my wife. Like you I am thinking of the best way to tame it in stronger conditions. I like the idea of the roller furler but that needs a bowsprit like the Selden and the bowsprit will get in the way of the anchor locker. A snuffer would be cheaper but I don't know if I could pull the snuffer down from a line lead from the cockpit to the bow. The ability to be able to douse the gennaker from the cockpit is a high priority. There are plenty of comments on the forum about gennakers if you search through the history and I will be interested to read any additional advice. Regards David
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Post by flightdeck on Dec 16, 2011 0:52:50 GMT
my 2C's. Go for a furler system as to the snuffer, I have never used a snuffer only watched other people having trouble with it. I use a facnor furler for my code 0, easy to use works fantastically and lets face it, we all drop them big sails toooo late so an easy to handle system is required.
Cheers
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Post by MartyB on Dec 16, 2011 2:56:16 GMT
From and SH standpoint, a furler would be easier than a snuffer frankly. Altho we have not had too many issues with my snuffer. The big issue seems to be getting the lines set up correct from the get go. We as a crew usually do better free flying the AS/gennaker.
marty
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Post by davideso37 on Dec 16, 2011 4:32:39 GMT
Thanks for the comments. They are pretty much my thoughts.
Any thoughts on the anchor locker access problem and also on fitting a bob stay from the bowsprit to take the load off the stem head fittting and the bowsprit itself?
Regards
David
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Post by j on Dec 19, 2011 2:01:48 GMT
Have a read of this: www.j120.org/snuffer.htmAny thoughts on the anchor locker access problem and also on fitting a bob stay from the bowsprit to take the load off the stem head fittting and the bowsprit itself? The Selden Bow sprits are easy to remove when you need to access the anchor locker. Most people keep them stored on the deck/stanchions when not in use.
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Post by flightdeck on Dec 19, 2011 22:13:22 GMT
Have a look at the 379 and 409, an option for them is a braced tack point, look at various pictures specially where they are running with a Code0 and you will see the bracing. Good and simple, should be easy to adapt on a SO40. Then spend the money on a furler instead. ;D
Cheers
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martti
Full Member
SO 29.2 - Silver Girl
Posts: 43
Country: Finland
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Post by martti on Dec 20, 2011 9:09:49 GMT
Hi Proposing Code-0 sail. In my case with SO 29.2 it is very usable in solo, but I guess scaling it to 40 ft should be fine even that forces of course get bigger.
Last summer was first and I'm very happy for Doyle's made Code-0 sail. I installed batsystem's bow spring which also help stepping in and out from and to the boat. This get the sail a bit out from bow and helps when jibe. It have furling system, which make it easy to use in solo. In race I have not used it, since with autopilot hoist is easy and not need to be hurry. Up and open when in front deck / winches, and then just trim when right course is set.
But I'm not the right comparing Code-0 to gennaker or similar. Only can say that what I got is easy and fun to use. And get a much speed on low winds where also get quite high on wind when needed.
Br, -Martti
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Post by flightdeck on Dec 21, 2011 3:24:39 GMT
Have a look at hints & tips on the site there is a 39i with aso tack point. Cheers
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Post by Tafika II on Dec 21, 2011 17:37:22 GMT
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 23, 2011 6:03:57 GMT
Oh boy , this is great. It works and doesn't force you to install a bowsprit. What a fantastic gadget , you dont even have to buy it , a average DIY ' can arrange something himself. Why didn't we came up with that idea ourselfs But I guess a pole would still be a good thought no ? What is the thing made of Tafika ? Regards
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 23, 2011 6:17:32 GMT
From and SH standpoint, a furler would be easier than a snuffer frankly. Altho we have not had too many issues with my snuffer. The big issue seems to be getting the lines set up correct from the get go. We as a crew usually do better free flying the AS/gennaker. marty Could you show us a pic of your sniffer Marty , just to get a visual on that ? Thanks regards
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Post by MartyB on Dec 23, 2011 15:51:24 GMT
sailbleu, here is a copy and past from another forums answer to something equal, this should answer the how I have things setup. My AS came from North, with there sock/snuffer setup. Here is a pic of the tack line at the dock. It is attached to the pulpit, then follow down to the sheave on the anchor pulpit, back to the right in pic, port side of boat to a cheeck block at the aft end of the anchor locker, then back to a clutch at the aft end of the cockpit. A dual sp 15 winch is after the clutch. Invaluable when using as a brake in 20'ish knot winds and releasing or helping to pull in. Here is a side shot in some upper teen winds doing upper 7- low 8 knots of boat speed. If you look carefully or blow up the image, you can see the sock lines leading to a cleat on the fordeck, tack line, and sheets running to the back of the boat. Marty
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Post by Tafika II on Dec 23, 2011 22:01:31 GMT
I believe the tracker is made from a glass reinforced polycarbonate. We are away for the holidays, but I will be happy to send a picture after the new year. It is rather simple with the tack line attached to the tracker and it ride up & down on the roller furling genoa. The rest of the rig is standard. Everyone have a great Christmas and a fantastic 2012!
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Post by hoppy on Dec 31, 2011 9:48:19 GMT
I forgot that I posted this question... Had not thought about the Genny as I am still trying to get answers and quotes for the head and main sails that my boat desperately needs. Once that is finally ordered I can try to get serious on the genny front. Thanks for the replies I just found an alternative to the Selden bowsprit that is made in Italy. www.maxspar.com/carbon-bowsprit.htm I was just thinking, about the code 0 and how bowsprits like that Selden can't support them. I just wonder if there is any reason why you could not just add a U bolt on the bow and run a cable up to the bowsprit for support?
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 31, 2011 10:14:07 GMT
Hoppy , please let us know how this all evolves , I too I'm planning a gennaker , not sure if to install a bowspritt though. That tacker thing around the genua looks like it could be an alternativ dont you agree ? What size (m²) of gen did you have in mind ?
Greetings
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Post by hoppy on Dec 31, 2011 11:38:20 GMT
sailbleu, Not sure what size I want at the moment and not even sure kind of gennaker I really want. As I am moving to the Ionian next summer with it's lighter wind, so even a code 0 is on the agenda. I'm not sure about the tacker thing. At the moment my mind is kind of fixed on a bowsprit solution either a retractable/removable like the Selden or Sparcraft (http://www.sparcraft.com/uk/products/poles_and_bowsprits/bowsprits/default.asp) or go for the "Swedish solution" and get one of these www.batsystem.se/databas/ShowProducts.php?language=swe&number_of_category_levels=2&category=peken&product_sub1_category=segelbat&product_sub2_category=noneor I may just piss fart around so much that I delay the gennaker purchase until 2013. I am going to London next weekend for the boat show there, so maybe there I will find some good solutions and perhaps a sail deal
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Post by davideso37 on Jan 3, 2012 12:06:37 GMT
Hoppy, The Selden literature shows that they do not have a bow sprit for a Code 0 on a yacht of your size. The heaviest yacht shown with a code 0 Bowsprit is 3.4 tonne. Because of the shape of the pulpit on the SO40 adnd SO37 a bowsprit is needed to get a straight line for the code 0 furler or for a gennaker furler. I have a large 160% LP genoa so my interest is in a mast head asymmetric reacher. I am still trying to work out how to fix the front ring. Selden provide a ring to attach to the Port bow roller but I am concerned with the uplift. I have already bent my Port side bow roller up a few millimeters when the protruding edge came down on a jetty edge so I am considering something more substantial to hold down the bowsprit ring. That might include a small SS bobstay that would protect the underside of the bow roller. Regards David
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Post by touchngo on Jan 9, 2012 7:50:57 GMT
Have you considered flying it off of a Spin Pole, and using a snuffer?
After reading about this setup in one of the UK sailing magazines, I have been playing with it on my Limbo 6.6 and it has worked out a treat (albeit, I drop into the turtlebag secured at the pulpit), so I am pretty sure it will scale ok.
The pole gives you the flexibility to use the asym and Genoa to run twin headed if need be (using the end of the boom and the spin pole to keep the clews outboard) and in normal trim it does allow you to bring the tack aft in much the same way as with a spinnaker (as well as being able to control the luff through pole height).
I am considering this for our SO40, but haven't decided what style of asym to go with as yet. I am very partial to North Sails G-Series Gennakers, so it'll probably be the G2 Runner.
PT.
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Post by hoppy on Jan 17, 2012 21:51:07 GMT
Have you considered flying it off of a Spin Pole, and using a snuffer? After reading about this setup in one of the UK sailing magazines, I have been playing with it on my Limbo 6.6 and it has worked out a treat (albeit, I drop into the turtlebag secured at the pulpit), so I am pretty sure it will scale ok. The pole gives you the flexibility to use the asym and Genoa to run twin headed if need be (using the end of the boom and the spin pole to keep the clews outboard) and in normal trim it does allow you to bring the tack aft in much the same way as with a spinnaker (as well as being able to control the luff through pole height). I am considering this for our SO40, but haven't decided what style of asym to go with as yet. I am very partial to North Sails G-Series Gennakers, so it'll probably be the G2 Runner. PT. That's what I used to do 25 plus years ago on my fathers 27 footer. Not sure if I want to do that if I am soloing.
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Post by davideso37 on Mar 3, 2012 3:45:39 GMT
Hoppy, I have made some progress and fitted the Selden bowsprit kit to our SO37. I have opted for a short bobstay to ensure the uplift of the pole does not lift the bow roller. I did say that the corner of the bow roller had lifted. Well we fixed that pretty easily with a sledge hammer and a couple of blocks of wood so she looks like new again. To prevent the bow roller catching on a jetty in the future I am running a spectra line from the front port corner of the bow roller down to the bob stay off take. This short spectra line will also hold down the corner of the Selden bow roller ring. Because of the anchor locker liner we could put the bob stay offtake either near the water line under the locker or down about 250mm below the forestay offtake. Because we intend to use an assymetric and not a code Zero we opted for the higher position which we can reach from the deck. This position is still lower than I have seen on Hanse 37 and Elan 37 yachts where they have welded an eye to the head of the last bolt on the forestay offtake. The other option for a bobstay offtake is to tap into the fibreglass but I am not keen on that one. We have opted for a 3/8 inch u bolt with a vary large stainless steel backing plate to spread the load. Next step is to select a furler but that will have to wait until after the Laser Worlds in Brisbane where I will be for the next two weeks. Regards David David
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Post by sailbleu on Apr 3, 2012 8:19:33 GMT
I'm using this topic to prevent the board being flooded with one-day-fly-topics. But could anyone tell me what the exact forestay lenght is of a Sun Odyssey 40 DS please. Checking out the possibilities for a gennaker on which I have an eye on you see.
Thanks
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Post by rxc on Apr 4, 2012 11:24:44 GMT
I don't have an AS on my 43DS(yet), but did have one one the previous boat, a Catalina 34, and it also used a device like the ATN tacker. It was just a reinforced sleeve that wrapped around the forestay, with a downhaul line to a cleat on deck. The AS was in a sock that was stuffed into a bag.
It was not at all difficult to set up. The biggest problem was trying to remember which lines to attach where, because I didn't use it as much as I should. But I do remember flying it solo, at least once, and it was not hard because I had an autopilot.
I would definitely go for something like that in the future, rather than a bowsprit - I don't need to stow another item someplace...
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Post by davideso37 on Apr 4, 2012 12:14:58 GMT
Time for a progress report. Back on March 3rd I reported that we had fitted the Selden bowsprit to our SO37p. We have now selected the furler and ordered the asymmetric so I have learnt quite a lot in the last couple of weeks. We have gone for a top down furler from Facnor but don't expect to see any literature. We are using the FX2500 with a rotating tack. The asymmetric is lashed to the eye of the torsion line at the head and to the rotating tack attachment at the bottom. As the torsion line turns the head of the asymmetric rolls around the torsion line until the sail is completely furled from the top down. All the parts are standard Facnor but it is a new arrangement for them that does away with the need for the central furling line that you can see in their literature. There are a few operating in Australia and I have been told that Facnor has just fitted one to a Wally 100 but don't quote me as it is all hearsay. We are leading the furling line all the way to the cockpit where we can throw the line over the big winch and furl by hand. Target furling time is under 40 seconds with the aim to furl, gybe and unfurl so that the sheets can be fed between the torsion line and the genoa. The measurement from bowsprit to the masthead halyard snap shackle is 15.7 metres and we have to allow 550 mm for the furler and all the attachments and stretch allowances. That gives a 15.150m tack to head straight line on which the asymmetric with 16 metres luff will fit. The area of the asymmetric will be just under 99m2 with an ASP of 95. For reference our masthead off take is at 15.265 metres and the bowsprit is 4.5 metres from the face of the mast. The Jeanneau website show a SO40 has an I of 15.25 and J or 4.21 so what we are doing with or big rig SO37p should be suitable for a SO40. Regards David
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