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Post by blackcaiman on Nov 17, 2011 15:33:30 GMT
We had an unusual amount of growth on our water line and bottom since our last cleaning (in July), when we went down to have a look, we noticed that HUGE chunks of bottom paint were missing. When the diver cleaned the bottom, he said that the paint was just about gone in most places and that we needed to haul out and have it redone. Since the boat is only six months old, we got a second opin. they confirmed the first findings, how can this be? I have been reading that bottom paint lasts for years, what are your experiences?  |
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Post by ancientmariner1 on Nov 17, 2011 17:35:00 GMT
We have a 2011 36i similar to yours delivered in May. We sail Lake Ontario. The boat was lifted out in early July and we found that several areas were missing copper VC17 bottom paint, The primer coat was still intact. The missing VC17 was so well defined we thought that the dealer had missed areas when coating. We re-coated those areas before we put the boat in the water.
When we hauled out for winter in late October some of the paint had been lost again but the areas were smaller. We are now tending to the view that both the re-coat and original coats were thin in some areas. The manufacturer recommends 2 coats for the first season in fresh water (3 in salt)
We re-coated putting one coat on the missing or thin areas and then a second coat overall. We will not know until next fall if this is the solution. We do have experience of using VC17 on the fleet of a timeshare club and we know that the coat build up over the years.
I have no idea what was used for your bottom paint but perhaps your dealer was frugal with paint as we suspect our was. Another possibility is that the hull was not primed correctly before coating with the anti-fouling paint. Again we have experience with that on the fleet I mentioned above
Hope this helps
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Post by MalcolmP on Nov 17, 2011 18:20:38 GMT
We had an unusual amount of growth on our water line and bottom since our last cleaning (in July), when we went down to have a look, we noticed that HUGE chunks of bottom paint were missing. When the diver cleaned the bottom, he said that the paint was just about gone in most places and that we needed to haul out and have it redone. Since the boat is only six months old, we got a second opin. they confirmed the first findings, how can this be? I have been reading that bottom paint lasts for years, what are your experiences? Sounds very much like the bottom was not prepped correctly by the commissioning yard. The hull when new will have traces of the mould release agent that MUST be removed otherwise exactly what has happened inevitably will occur. There are different ways of removing the mould release agent - some yards use a chemical degreaser others consider the optimal way is to very finely abrade the surface with a mild abrasive paper - although that sounds bit harsh for a brand new boat probably is the right way to do it I suggest you go back to your dealer |
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Post by ancientmariner1 on Nov 17, 2011 21:40:36 GMT
In our case the primer/barrier coat was intact where the anti-fouling paint had disappeared. The primer was black or dark blue in these areas. Hence the conclusion that the problem was inadequate anti-fouling thickness in some areas
If the preparation of the hull before any painting had not been done correctly then the bare patches would have been white gelcoat.
In Blackcaiman's case if the places where the paint has gone is white then it's poor prep of the hull for painting and/or no primer or the wrong primer. Either way it's back to whoever did the painting
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Post by blackcaiman on Nov 17, 2011 23:30:21 GMT
Our bottom paint (was) is black, there was no additional paint applied other than that, I will have to ask how many coats they applied and if it was also anti-fouling (if that is even possible). It certainly came off very clean... almost like it was peeled off. We will deff. be more on-top of this next bottom job, I don't want to have to do this every six months!
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Post by Zanshin on Nov 18, 2011 2:05:08 GMT
The descriptions make it sound like inadequate prepping of the bottom prior to applying bottom paint. This doesn't bode well for me as I'm using the same dealer who probably used the same subcontractor for bottom painting! I was warned about this problem and the recommendation came that I get the boat without bottom paint and get the job done (correctly) in the Caribbean; but when I removed this line item from the order the refund was so low that I opted to put it back on again ... now time will tell.
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Post by blackcaiman on Nov 18, 2011 10:42:19 GMT
With all the other stuff I was concentrating on during the purchase and commissioning, the bottom job must have flown under the radar. And wouldn't you know it's come about to bite us in the bottom. LOL... Zanshin, I hope you have better luck, that would be an expense much greater than we are facing and such a bother. We will have the boat hauled in January, cleaned, prepped, repainted with anti-fouling, replace zincs, and the through hulls cleaned also (we have these crazy tube worms that get into everything) Will post pictures when we haul out.
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Post by ancientmariner1 on Nov 18, 2011 21:30:32 GMT
You might find it useful to go to the Interlux website www.yachtpaint.com. If you follow the menus you can get to useful information about bottom paint, choices available, application and compatibility. I have also used their call center on boat painting problems and found them to be very helpful. Might be useful in deciding to do with your boat in its present condition When I led volunteers looking after a fleet of timeshare boats we moved from an ablative coating to the VC17 hard coating. We found that each fall after pressure wash immediately on haulout the surface is ready for re-coat without sanding. (Note this is sailing on Lake Ontario )The ablative coating had to be sanded every fall and was a messy dirty job. Recoating the 36i this fall took 2 people less than two hours. I'm not suggesting doing it your self just giving you a feel for the size of the task when you get prices |
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Post by blackcaiman on Feb 20, 2012 21:16:51 GMT
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Post by Zanshin on Feb 20, 2012 22:34:55 GMT
Was the middle picture taken after some work was done on the bottom, or is that all that was left of the bottom paint?
I dove on my hull today and the bottom paint is black as night but there are some small barnacles growing which I'll have to scrape off, but it looks nothing like your picture.
I had a Gori on my old boat and was quite happy with it, particularly the overdrive mode. I used a lot of heavy grease on it and never had problems.
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Post by blackcaiman on Feb 21, 2012 3:08:01 GMT
No, they had not done any work yet, just blocking and bracing to drop the straps.
We love our Gori, works great, your right the overdrive is a bonus. Its a bit more expensive to maintain, but still worth it. (zinc set and rubber stoppers set replaced 2X per year, approx. $320.00 plus time and labor)
Good news on your paint job, hope it continues to hold up. We were told of our paint problem about six months in at our second cleaning. Fingers crossed for you.
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Post by MartyB on Feb 21, 2012 4:53:53 GMT
That middle pic to me looks like after hauling, pressure wash the bottom, now it is being blocked etc to have sanding, painting etc down. Pressure washing makes bottoms look like yours does depending upon the ferocity of the operator, and psi of the PW unit.
marty
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Post by Zanshin on Feb 21, 2012 12:06:21 GMT
Marty - I see that now, I'd assumed that those tracks were from rolling on the paint, but now I can see that it does come from pressure washing. Odd, when my boat's bottom was pressure washed the bottom paint didn't ablate that much.
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Post by blackcaiman on Feb 21, 2012 12:31:08 GMT
This is what it looked like right out of the water, the divers who clean the boat do use a pressure washer/scrubby pad when cleaning, we have only had the boat cleaned twice, we are in a locked harbor and we don't get a lot of bottom build up. Some parts of the boat look perfect, the aft end and the keel are in great shape. The yard guy was showing me with a cloth how he was wiping the paint away, so I rubbed my finger on it and it smeared very easily and came off without any pressure.  i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l542/blackcaiman143/DSC01207.jpg i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l542/blackcaiman143/DSC01230.jpg |
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Post by blackcaiman on Feb 21, 2012 12:52:38 GMT
The upside to this is: The prop is getting maint., the zincs are being replaced, the worms are getting cleaned out of every nick and cranny, and the boat is getting a full check-up/sprucing-up all around for the 2012 season! The boat yard doing the paint job, knows how the boats are cleaned around here, they can see what happened and have guaranteed me this paint job will last (they know I mean business!). Life is too short to sweat the small stuff, I just want to be feeling good about the boat and be out on the water.
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Post by MartyB on Feb 21, 2012 15:15:22 GMT
Then those lines might be from rolling as zanshin thought, or the bottom cleaning or a combo.......
I had a few lines like that, but it was from the PW when I was hauled.
Hopefully the painters will double up the bow and waterline, those area's seem to wear a bit more if using an ablative paint. If they go hard paint, not as big a deal.
Marty
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Post by j on Feb 21, 2012 18:24:22 GMT
the divers who clean the boat do use a pressure washer/scrubby pad when cleaning, we have only had the boat cleaned twice Could you explain what you mean when you say the diver uses a pressure washer? It might be that the diver has contributed to the early demise of your antifouling by 1)using too harsh a scrubbing pad 2)scrubbing too hard. Slime does not require much effort to remove and the diver should use the least abrasive method possible to clean the hull (soft carpet does a good job), scrubby pads take off too much paint, they should only be used if something softer doesn't work - they have the same effect as fine sandpaper. --- Also, just from the photos it looks like the greyish primer (if that's what it is) is intact under the anti fouling, so that might rule out a preparation problem when the hull was first painted. |
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Post by blackcaiman on Feb 21, 2012 20:41:02 GMT
J,
You sound like someone else I know...
The scrubby pad is for the crusty worms that get on any metal and prop. The power washer is used by the divers underwater to remove the slime. Many boats are cleaned this way here, I've spoken to a LOT of owners and none have had the problems we have, even after numerous cleanings over a couple of years.
As for the black paint that was applied??? After the boat was hauled, and the minute the lift stopped moving, I was shown how the black paint could be wiped away clean with just a wash rag and no effort.
Now I know how my husband ruined one of my good Chamois that I had purchased to clean our enclosure glass. When we were anchored out, he used it to clean the water line, and when he climbed back into the cockpit, my chamois was black with bottom paint, ruined and had to be thrown away.
I really don't care what happened, It's done, and hopefully fixed for the future. I'm not about blaming the divers or anyone else, I just post here for review by anyone who wants to have a look-see.
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Post by fstbttms on Feb 26, 2012 17:11:45 GMT
Could you explain what you mean when you say the diver uses a pressure washer? It might be that the diver has contributed to the early demise of your antifouling by 1)using too harsh a scrubbing pad 2)scrubbing too hard. These are not areas where the paint has been scrubbed off by hand. This is clearly the work of a pressure washer. The power washer is used by the divers underwater to remove the slime. Many boats are cleaned this way here, I've spoken to a LOT of owners and none have had the problems we have, even after numerous cleanings over a couple of years. I really don't care what happened, It's done, and hopefully fixed for the future. I'm not about blaming the divers or anyone else, I just post here for review by anyone who wants to have a look-see. You should care. Using a pressure washer to clean anti fouling paint is not a Best Management Practice, it is a worst management practice. You've seen the evidence. Any hull cleaner that would use a pressure washer on a painted surface either doesn't know what he is doing or doesn't care about what he is doing. In-water hull cleaning BMPs typically call for cleaning by hand, using the softest media possible to remove the growth. Just exactly what constitutes the "softest media possible" is largely dependent on how foul you've let your hull become. But regardless, a pressure not the proper tool for the job. You diver is absolutely ruining your expensive anti fouling unnecessarily. |
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Post by blackcaiman on Feb 13, 2013 14:26:56 GMT
It's been a year since we hauled our boat and had the bottom repainted. The bottom has been cleaned with the exact same method (underwater power washing) and frequency as the year before, but with this paint job, I am happy to report that the bottom still looks brand new!! So happy that we do not have to haul out this year!!
I can now say that our choice of paint was a deff. winner!!! (in our local waters)
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She is in for a bottom paint job, new zincs on shaft and Gori Prop (along with rubber stoppers) and a shine up on the topsides and Croc. Oh and a new bilge pump (goodness!) must have burnt up between last visit and today, thankfully it was not summer, we were away for a month and if we had the AC running, it would have been very ugly.
