SO43DS - salt water in the bilges

[Amun Ra]

Hello,

I have a problem with what appears to be a salt water leak into the bilges. I wonder if anyone has had a similar experience and can help?

The boat (2005 SO43DS) is new to me, having collected her 10 days ago. We had a bumpy 72 hour passage with a F6 on the nose, and probably shipped some water. We certainly had the bow buried several times and the lee rail under.

When we got her home the bilge sump was full, so I pumped her out. Returning to the boat 2 days later, the sump was full again. I emptied it out, drove her in and out of the marina and left her. 48 hours later, back to the boat again the sump was full. Now feeling rather worried, I tried to clean out every last drop of water in the bilges from the engine to the bow. Stayed on board for 24 hours and barely any more water appeared.

Feeling we had dried her out, took her sailing and motoring for the day last Sunday - only to find when we returned to the marina that the sump was full again at the end of the day. Feeling very, very frustrated by now!

36hrs passed, went down again, and the sump had once more filled up.

To help try and pin down what's going on I have just dried her out again and blocked up all the limber holes. Hopefully the next 48hrs may reveal at least where the water is coming from.

Things I have checked:
1. The stern gland appears fine, with no evidence of any water ingress at all.
2. There is no sign of water coming in from anywhere aft of the engine.
3. Drying out the sump area, water tank and fuel tank compartments, there is no sign of water leaking in around the keel bolts, which look fine. (more than fine, they're solid!)
4. None of the heads sea cocks, nor galley seacock seem to be leaking.

The only thing I have noticed is that I cannot dry under the engine moulding, and that salt water continues to weep out forwards into the diesel filter area, slowly but steadily.

Right now I'm at a loss and open to any ideas! At the back of the engine (75 Yanmar) I notice that the exhaust goes through a 90 degree bend through a mixer unit or something. Could this be leaking when using the engine and filling the area under the engine moulding?

My next step, having isolated the bilge areas is to hope that they remain dry for the time being. Hopefully by not using the engine, I will not introduce any more water into the bilges.

If I can prove that the leak is related to using the engine, I will at least have made progress.

Any thoughts gratefully received!

Best wishes

Julian

[Deleted]

I own a 45DS and had a similar problem that kept me searching for days before finding the culprit, which was the "first" water lock muffler that in my case was installed under the port side engine mount.

To make a long story short, it appears that it was not installed correctly and it failed where the input joint, which was only hand tight and had no thread sealant applied. Hope this helps

[Zanshin]

I had a loose cooling water hose in the aft part of the engine on my old 43DS which leaked water over the engine and into the boat. It wasn't visible at idle engine speed, just when running at RPMs.

[Amun Ra]

Those are both really useful tips, thank you very much. The boat hasn't done much in the last 18 months, and very few hours on the engine, so I suspect a sudden burst of activity might generate faults like those you suggest.

I will take a closer look later this week and report back.

Thank you

Julian

[sitara]

Also experienced a water leak through the exhaust water lock - there was a drain hole at the bottom with a loose cap!

[boltnbrew]

The Vetus anti siphon valve, pull open step cover and it is at upper left, can drip into the bilge near the engine. Easy replacement.

[debenboy]

Had a similar problem in our 36i in March after some heavy weather sailing. No leaks from any of the sources mentioned and eventually our brains trust came up with the following explanation whcih matched the physical evidence:

When heavily heeled ( to port in our case) the level of the heads sink is below water level. Syphon action fills the sink if the sink drain stopcock is open. When you tack the water in the sink flows out of the sink and down behind the door to the locker under the sink from whence it can flow all over the bottom of ther boat. NOTE it does not nicely run into the heads moulding and then into the shower drain! Because the boat is heeled the water stays aft under the engine moulding,the floor in the aft cabin, and (in our boat) the "hole" just in side the door to the "hold" in the port quarters of the boat.
The water then slowly finds its way forward into the under floor spaces and some ends up in the sump, although as much ( on the 36i) remained in the under floor space adjacent to the sink island.

Our boat now has a large sign on the heads door and above the heads mirror: " CLOSE SINK SEACOCK BEFORE SAILING"

Good luck.

[Amun Ra]

Thank you for your thoughts on how I could be getting salt water in the bilges. Unfortunately, much as I would love to think the salt water came from the heads sink, I suspect the water wouldn't have continued to be present in the quantities it has several days later.

I'm back down to the boat tomorrow, 48hrs after I last dried her out, so it will be very interesting to see if, and where she has salt water. I am hoping the bilges will be dry. If they are I shall run the engine for a while, and see whether that creates a new flow of salt water into the sump.

Thank you for your very helpful replies.

Best wishes

Julian

[MartyB]

If it is the water muffler, as I had an issue with one time, it takes about 24 hrs for the water to hit the bilge, or if running for 4-6 hrs, you will get some water too. As it took about 12-24 hrs for the muffler to leak out of a broken drain cap.

Marty

[Amun Ra]

Hi Marty,

Can you confirm for me where the muffler is, please? The boat is new to me and I'm trying to locate it under the aft cabin somewhere. I plan to unscrew the various panels to locate it this week.

I went down to the boat on Friday and it was dry, but for a very small amount that had weeped through the engine moulding into the area under the fuel filters.

The 90 degree bend in the exhaust at the back corner of the engine seems too unlikely to be the problem, so the muffler or exhaust mixer unit seems the most likely culprit. Plus it does seem to fit your decription as far as timings are concerned.

Thank you very much, really helpful!!

Best wishes

Julian

[MartyB]

Julian,

Water/exhaust mixer I am going to guess is what I am calling a watermuffler. IT is a brown plastic box within a meter, probably 2-3' of the motor in my boat. On the lower back side is or maybe is a rubber cap that keeps water in and can also be used to drain the muffler. The rubber can had rotted, I put on a hose with a cap a foot away or so for easier access. The muffler I have is made by Vetus, which IIRC is visable from the side of it. I should be at my boat later, I'll try to take a picture, or there may be a pic on my LT, I am using a desk top puter right now at home.

Marty

[Amun Ra]

Marty,

Thank you - that sounds about the right distance away from the engine to miss the engine moulding and allow water to run underneath it all.

A picture would be very helpful, if possible. Happy to give you my home email if that would make sending a picture easier.

Many thanks

Julian

[MartyB]

Julian,

Took the pic sunday, needed to get my LT working, power cord was shot! I was using spouses desktop, but the LT gives me a few more options for posting pics.......

Here is pic, kind of hidden in the lower right of the brown mixer is a black hose, that is where the rubber cap had rotted. I put this hose there, put about a foot or two on it, inserted a barb fitting with a screw cap to drain the muffler if the need arose. Hope this helps.

Marty

[Deleted]

I am glad to see that I am not the only one to suffer. Last May I arrived in Key West, plugged in, fired up the air conditioning and saw smoke billowing out of the bilge. To make a long and frustrating story shorter, it turned out after many hours searching, that the water lock muffler below the port engine mount was badly leaking - but how to get it out was the challenge. Jeanneau disavowed any responsibility as the boat was one year out of warranty, but suggested that it was easy to remove with just a few screws to remove. It wasn't.

The woodwork that was supposedly removed was glued in place and a nightmare to breakout without damage.

In the end, the top muffler joint had not been tightened into place and no joint compound had been used to seal it. It was reinstalled properly and all was well until last week, when the exact same thing happened. I suspect that the pressure created buy the water flow pressure and the constant vibration, together with a design flaw are true real reasons for the muffler's repeat performance.

Jeanneau have said that they will sell me an new muffler for $350., but otherwise little sympathy for my challenges. Has anyone fully resolved a similar situation to their satisfaction?

I love my boat, but a quality issue like this is starting to wear my patience thin.

[Amun Ra]

I'm sorry to hear of your trouble.

I left my exhaust mixer box in situ as it was too difficult to remove.

Instead, I replaced it with a Volvo unit in the area under the rear bunks. A much better arrangement!

Best wishes

Julian

[Deleted]

Thanks Julian. I am going to try one more solution, but I would be interested in your arrangement.

Right now I don'e see how I could reroute the exhaust without going through the same spaces that are currently used, plus space under my rear bunk is limited.

Norm

[Amun Ra]

Norm,

I didn't really re-route the exhaust, I cut the exhaust piping and inserted the Volvo mixer box adjacent to the P bracket housing on my 43DS. I subsequently discovered I had a broken P bracket and that was leaking, but that's a whole other story!

Best wishes

Julian

[Peter123]

I had wet bilges on my old 34.2 caused by a hole in the top of the exhaust hose some distance aft of the muffler. I only found the hole after exposing the exhaust hose properly so I could examine it carefully. In retrospect, if I was getting water in I was also probably getting carbon monoxide.

On my 36i, i was getting water in from the anti-syphon valve ( see recent thread).

[dennissedman]

I purchased a DS54 last summer, the latest of a litany of problems that has beset me is a suspected, heavy water leak from the muffler. Engineering expertise on the island is poor. The muffler runs along the port side of the engine and because the vertical flange to rear of the muffler cannot be unscrewed it is being proposed that the only way to extract the muffler is to cut the wood and fibre glass aft of the system and pull it out that way. Could anyone advise me whether this is sensible or not. Certainly pulling it out forward even if the vertical flange were cut off looks next to impossible without removing the generator and a considerable amount of ancillary engine support systems.

Please help!!

[MalcolmP]

Jan 18, 2013 21:28:11 GMT dennissedman said:

I purchased a DS54 last summer, the latest of a litany of problems that has beset me is a suspected, heavy water leak from the muffler. Engineering expertise on the island is poor. The muffler runs along the port side of the engine and because the vertical flange to rear of the muffler cannot be unscrewed it is being proposed that the only way to extract the muffler is to cut the wood and fibre glass aft of the system and pull it out that way. Could anyone advise me whether this is sensible or not. Certainly pulling it out forward even if the vertical flange were cut off looks next to impossible without removing the generator and a considerable amount of ancillary engine support systems.

Please help!!

Are you able to post some photo's ? - would help visualise the issue to those of us without a 54DS

[Donrob]

On my SO 43 DS the muffler is located within the starboard engine mount moulding which is a very awkward place to put it. The yard had to remove the boat's fuel tank to bring the muffler out to fix a small leak.

[ladyliv]

Hi Julian, I'm brand new to this forum and was researching problems with a leaking waterlock/ muffler 43DSand see you have a solution. could you please give me info on the Volvo unit you used and the exact location you sited it in. I thought this would be the alternative answer to the problem of removeing the original muffler. Is the height in relation the engine exhaust outlet ok?

Best wishes

Bob

[Amun Ra]

Hi Bob,

I will have to check exactly which Volvo unit I used, but I opened up the rear port cabin bunk in my 43DS and exposed the central area in which the piping, ventilation and miscellaneous wiring runs fore and aft. I fitted a corner piece into the turn where the aft end of the muffler used to live, so retaining the route of the exhaust tubing, then ran this aft as per the original route. I inserted the Volvo unit just underneath the ventilation blower unit. It's a perfect fit and should I need to check it , it's reasonably easy to pop up the port aft cabin floor to inspect. Much better than the previous design flaw!

It took me more time to think it all through and shift the Jeanneau exhaust box than fit the Volvo unit!

Good Luck with it,

Best wishes

Julian

[ladyliv]

Thanks for that Julian, Could you please tell me how you managed to remove the original jeanneau stainless steel water lock from under the port side engine mountings. It appears to me that you need to remove the diesel tank which in turn seems to require the removal of half the galley, is this correct?

All the Best

Bob

[Amun Ra]

Hi Bob,

I chopped the water lock up in situ - or rather slid it forward and sliced it into sections with an angle grinder. Not too much mess and quickly got rid of it. The thought of emptying the diesel tank then removing it was too much!

Best wishes

Julian