When to replace seacocks

[wolferich]

I have to replace the stuck seacock of the saildrive on my SO 439 from 2011 and wonder if it is time to replace other seacocks. Therefore I have some questions in this respect.

At which age is it usually necessary to replace the parts that Jeanneau used?
Are there visually signs if its time to replace?

I have still the originals installed up to now and not one drop of saltwater ever  entered through any thruhull or seacock. They look relatively good and close correctly as far as I can see it. Do I risc more problems if I change unneccesary early.

I got the recommendation to use TruDesign materials. Does anything speak against this choice?

Is it mandatory to replace seacocks and thruhulls at the same time? Do I better replace all at a time or only after first signs of upcoming problems?


Sorry for possibly stupid questions :-)

 

[Don Reaves]

In this thread there are suggestions to replace the original seacocks after 5 years. My boat is in fresh water, so it really isn't a problem for me, but not all are so lucky. You can find lots of discussion of this subject using the search function where you will get better advice than I can give you.

With a boat 12 or 13 years old, I would guess that most would recommend changing them soon. If I recall correctly, the thru-hulls are made of better material than the seacocks, and don't need to be replaced as often.

[sitara]

My boat SO36i is a similar age. I replaced the engine raw water sea cock a few years ago as the hose tail had suffered dezinicification and was leaking, it crumbled as we removed the plastic water pipe. The sea cock and through hull were probably OK but I replace them both anyway with TruDesign gear. I have worried about the other sea cocks over the years but they looked OK with no leaks or surface corrosion. They passed a marine insurance survey a few weeks ago so I guess they are OK.

[Charlie-Bravo]

A stuck seacock is a reasonable cause for concern.
No silly questions when thinking about not sinking.

Jeanneau seem to generally use DZR Brass for through hulls and stopcocks, and although the environment in which your boat lives, and how many months on the hard in a yard each year it spends will effect the likely lifespan of your valves and through hulls, they are well passed the 3 to 5 year life expectancy of such items. (some can last quite a bit longer ….. as yours have)

In the passed I have replaced valves, and when unscrewing them, the through hull twisted off as though it were made of chocolate (a good quality 70% cocoa ) , this led me to the opinion that replacing the DZR valves and through hulls at 5 years is probably a good idea. 15 year old bronze on the other hand seemed to still be strong.

Should you decide to leave them in place, and your beloved boat sinks, consider that your insurance company will term this “neglect of maintenance” and refuse to pay out. …… Ouch!  

Also, even if you don’t actually sink, the damage of a flood will be very upsetting, and when you come across the refurb costs and hassle, along with the loss of sailing time,  well , replacing a few through hulls will seem an easy and cheap option.

TruDesign non metallic items to my mind make a lot of sense, and I plan to replace mine with them where space permits, a bit of research has revealed that my 2” heads through hull may well prove a challenge, but even if I have to stick with dzr / bronze for that, it will be just the one hole in the bottom of the boat to keep an eye on.

Replacing through hulls is not all that difficult , I could do 3 or 4 a day allowing for stubborn ones, but will return to them a day or so later for the final tighten if needed.  I now don’t even attempt to unscrew them, just grind off the outer lip, and punch them through the hull, it’s quicker.
It can seem a drastic thing removing them, and revealing a hole in the bottom of your boat that you are now fully responsible for sealing up with a new fitting, but it isn’t rocket science, and well within a handy man’s capabilities.

Much is written on the subject of metallic through hulls, but oddly not so much on the polymer through hulls found on sounder and log transducers, they make just as big a hole in the boat as the other through hulls ….. so I have replaced mine, but am unsure how long to leave them before the next replacement is due.


A general check you can do whilst out of the water is to grind or file the external flange of a through hull, if the metal looks a bit pink rather than brass/gold coloured, then they should be replaced.

Hope this long reply helps in some way.

CB

[allegria]

Hello,

I have replaced all through hull & seacocks on my 2010 SO36i and I sleep a lot better for it...
I've used TruDesign for all of them and I close/open them on a regular basis to check them and they perform the same as the first day they were installed.

As someone said, considering the age of your boat, I wouldn't wait for them to fail as the result is likely to be catastrophic... so bite the bullet and replace them all... FWIW...

Cheers,
Allegria

[loredo]

Before replacing the through hulls / seacock(s) I would first check if the original ones are DZR brass or bronze.

On my previous boat, at ten years old I replaced all of them THINKING they were DZR, only to find out they were all bronze.  Good quality bronze! That was wasted money... I checked all the through hulls and seacocks on my new boat, all are bronze here too.

On the previous boat a few of the barbed hose fittings were in DZR.  Those can be replaced easily even in the water though.

Check what you really have and only after that make your decision.

[wolferich]

How can I find out if it is DZR or bronze? Can it be identified on a photo? 

[ohana]

Hi, I have a SO439 built in France in 2012.  I bought the boat in late 2017 and replaced all the metallic through-hull seacocks (other than the 2 large toilet waste outlets which were non-metallic plastic type) in winter 2018.

A couple of these metallic valves were not turning properly and I could not find any markings on them to know what they were made of, so it was a preventative measure to replace them all. I found 2 to be quite badly corroded, not at failure point but heading that way. A point to consider is apparently some manufacturers make ball valve fittings where the body is DZR or similar, but the ball itself is made from material which corrodes. Worth reading Vyv Cox Engineering website articles on this. Replaced all metallic through hulls and valves with DZR from ASAP in the UK.

The saildrive is another separate matter. My boat came with an SD50 with a screw-in type valve on the leg, which again never worked well. After cone clutch problems in 2018, I ended up replacing the drive for a SD60, which came with a simpler ball valve which has always worked well.

[loredo]

Here is a website that explains the difference between DZR and bronze DZR Vs Bronze

It is possible to understand which is which based upon their color but it needs a bit of a trained eye and the surfaces need to be relatively oxidation free. As a rule of thumb, DZR is more shiney looking almost golden, bronze is a darker brownish color.

A trick to find out about the condition of both is to remove a tiny bit of metal with a file.  If the cleaned metal is "pink-ish" in color then that means that severe electrolysis has removed most of the zinc; time to replace.

Here is the link to one of the best marine-bronze MFR in Europe Maestrini

[NZL50505]

I’ve got 12 through-hulls and I’ve now replaced 8 of them with TruDesign (both the skin fitting and the valve).

Every year, when I lift put, I get my local boatbuilder to inspect them all and we usually conclude that 1-2 need replacing.

The tell-take signs are degree of discolouring (blue/green) plus corrosion or signs of leaking (white buildup).

My boat is now 10yrs old (always in salt water) and so my metal units are definitely of the era that has a 5-10yr lifespan rather than the metal units fitted 30-40yrs ago which seem to last forever!

[Trevor]

A good topic for us all to consider. I am scheduled in for early March for the periodic lift for antifoul and I am getting the yard to replace all seacocks and thru hulls with trudesign. I am tired of worrying about it so I want to resolve it once and for all.

[SY Racer]

For limited spaces (engine seawater inlet valve), where Trudesign is just too bulky I used a high quality bronze gate valve. Gate valves are proven to be reliable for decades in industrial applications. Much more reliable than the nowadays more popular ball valves.

Make sure to really get high quality bronze one. Look for "red and white" brand ("rot-gelb" in Germany). You can get a cheap home-depot brass gate valve for under 5 Euro. A high quality bronze "rot-gelb" sells for around 35 Euro.

These are the ones to get: redwhitevalvecorp.com/product/204a-bronze-gate-valve/

[NZL50505]

I’ve literally just replaced my engine cooling water intake with TruDesign. It’s replacing one of those awful little valves that sits on the top of a SD50 unit which has a handle that’s too small to twist with any proper leverage. And it was as stiff as dad’s Christmas brandy and so caked with salt that it was only half open .😳 I’m surprised that I didn’t have engine cooling problems with the reduced water flow.

It was so tight that on the water my engineer was nervous to tinker with it so we waited until this week’s haulout before tackling it.

It was tight to get the TruDesign in. But it’s in. I’ll take a photo later when I’m onboard.

[NZL50505]

Pic of engine cooling TruDesign replacement as promised.

Dropped back into water this morning and so far everything dry. 🤞

[MartyB]

"IF" you're in North America, I suggest Forespar Marlon replacements. Rest of the world Tru-Design seems to be more prevalent non metalic product available.
I had an original 30-year engine cooling thru hull leak this last summer. Major amount of work to fix things with 18" of salt water in the bottom of the hull. The other three thru hulls had been replaced 5 years ago.
I'd also suggest going with flush thru hulls, I gain .25-.5 knots sailing speed on a 30'LOA 25' water line boat. I'm sure those of you with the 50-60' versions that have 20 some odd thru hulls, will find an equal speed gain too. Most of it is in lighter winds, just as a folding feathering prop helps in lighter winds.

Marty

[saltymetals]

Problem with the metal through-hulls+stopcock is that you are unlikely to see the effects of corrosion on the outside of the fitting. If you see anything pink it is definitely time to change. Many boat manufacturers source these items from India or Far East and have little idea if they are truly DZR or simply brass. Even DZR is only guaranteed for 5 years although many last a lot longer. You cannot really tell from the colour of the fitting if it is DZR or standard brass. 

In standard DZR fitting the body is De-Zincification Resistant and will show "DZR" on the outside while the ball valve is chromium plated which is subject to pitting corrosion over the years. Not that the ball valve will not fail like the body of the stopcock or through-hull but the pitting will make it stiff so eventually it becomes impossible to turn. At this point the lever might be turning but not the ball valve inside. Definitely time to change. 

So yr choice is new DZR but frankly why go through the effort when that will eventually fail anyway or any damage might not be recoverable by insurance on sinking if >5yrs YO. So i think new DZR is a total waste of time, effort and expense. Better you go for the synthetics like TruDesign or Marelon (but they require a little more space where space is often severely limited) or you dig a little deeper in your pockets and go for bronze. I did the latter and got bronze fittings with a synthetic ball-valve from Maestrini in Italy. 

I think Vyv Cox and i are the only two with Metallurgical degress in the Cruising Association (about 6-7,000 members). So by all means take a look at Vyv's website which talks a lot of sense.

Andrew
"Genial Bee"

[zofiasailing]

Jan 7, 2024 23:04:25 GMT zofiasailing said:

Dec 13, 2023 10:00:37 GMT Trevor said:

A good topic for us all to consider. I am scheduled in for early March for the periodic lift for antifoul and I am getting the yard to replace all seacocks and thru hulls with trudesign. I am tired of worrying about it so I want to resolve it once and for all.

Trevor
Our boats are similar in age from what we can tell from earlier reading (2006/7) and this issue has also been front of mind for us. My skipper was very resistant to removing the skin fittings so our project this lift was a conpromise to at least replace the balance of below water ball valves to TruDesign. We’d already done a couple at earlier lifts (galley sink & f’rd heads seawater intake) and were pleased with ease of use.

What we learned was that the skin through-hulls (assuming them to be uniform through the boat)were clearly a good pre-GFC quality and not in urgent need of replacement but that the elbow join was a different metal and not in good condition by this time. The ball valve & elbow under the stern heads holding tank was impossible to remove and after A LOT of wasted time and effort it was necessary to knock out the through-hull skin fitting. What we also learned was that there are 2 options to sealing the elbow bend to the through hull - adhesives (Sikaflex or Flextech) OR a teflon tape combo (floss+tape). When we come to do the balance of the skin fittings at next lift (we were constrained by Christmas)we’ll have no hesitation and will choose the tape option again which allows removal of the TruDesign parts (if it should ever be necessary) plus there is no need for 24hr cure-time for the adhesives. (Also far less messy). To be clear, the through-hull skin fitting of course needs the adhesive but the parts beyond can be sealed with the floss+tape.

For anyone embarking on this project - and we were dead set frightened, this is a great YouTube video. Short & to the point.


Year by year we seem to be doing all kinds of weird boat jobs for the first time. The next time will be easy. Right?🤣

[rxc]

A question for those of you who have gone with TruDesign, did you install the load collars on th 3/4 inch thru hulls, and how much did you have to cut off the thru hull tails if any, to fit the collars? I will be having all of my thruhulls replaced next time I haul the boat, but will not do it myself, and I want to make sure that I have the right parts available for the yard to do the work. It looks like each one might have to be done one at a time - dry fit, measure the tail, cut, and then install. Is this the proper sequence? I don't know how think the hull is at the various places where the thru hulls are installed.

[NZL50505]

Sorry I can’t answer your question ‘technically’ because I’ve had all mine done for me by my local boatbuilder. But from watching them work it seems like every replacement has been relatively simple with no customisation required.

Replacements on my 2012 50DS have been done in 2 ways:

Option 1: The metal skin-fitting itself is still in good condition but the valve is corroded => replace valve only. The TrueDesign valves seem to come in a range of standard sizes that pair easily directly onto the metal skin-fitting. This results in a combined metal / plastic unit.

Option 2: The metal skin-fitting and the valve are both corroded => replace both parts. Again, the TrueDesigns skin-fittings seem to come in a range of standard sizes that fit directly into the existing hole in the hull, requiring no bodybuilding work but just the usual sealant as part of installation. This results in a fully plastic unit.

[MartyB]

I did not have to do any changes to the hole or equal going from metal to Forespar thru hulls and valves either.

An "issue" I did have, was going from Mushroom skin fitting to flush, one has to cut into the hull approx 1/8-3/16" for the head part. So, I put on the inside about 6 layers total of mat and cloth along with Epoxy 6-8" from the center of the valve to thicken that area up. I tried to make the thickness about the same to slightly thicker than I needed to cut out and into the hull. "Some" boats may not need this if they are larger, may have thicker hulls than my 30' boat does. Like a lot of things like this, some may have to do this, some may not. Be ready for more than one way of getting things done.

Also, unlike some, I did not have any too tight of fitting issues for the slightly larger "plastic" parts vs the metal fittings. With a mid 80's boat, it seems like some items are not as tightly fit as they are today. The tightest was my engine cooling thru hull and valve.

Marty

[rxc]

Thanks. My boat now has a variety of different thruhulls and valves, from the original ones installed by Jeanneau to replacement Trudesign fittings and valves for the holding tank discharges, two bronze fittings for the genset and the AirCon system, and a bronze set for the engine water cooling that was installed at the insistence of a surveyor who insisted that the original was leaking. The boat had been out of the water, on the hard, at the Hinckley Yard in Stuart FL for 3 months, and I think it was just condensation, but to make the surveyor happy I had it replaced - it is solid as a rock.

The original ones do not show any signs of de-zincification inside the boat, after 20 years, but I anticipate that I will eventually have to have an new insurance survey done, so I am preparing for that event.

I did have to replace a 1/2 inch brass nipple last year in the aircon system that failed. The original system used solid copper, but I had to make up a replacement during the pandemic when there were no bronze 1/2 in fittings to be found. The brass fitting lasted 2 years, until I found a bronze supplier.