|
|
Post by ales on Jun 12, 2023 19:29:31 GMT
I am in the process of buying and installing new radar (Raymarine doppler) and MFD and I can not find a good advice, how to run data cable (that has 2cm wide connector on both sides of the cable) trough the mast and deck. Raymarine said the pin on the cable should not be cut off. So getting the cable with that pin trough the mast and getting it out at the base is one thing but drilling a hole 2cm wide in the deck and then installing it all the way to the cockpit where MFD is... (that is 25 of cable).
Should I make a cable extension inside the boat where the cable gets trough, so if I have to remove the mast, I will just unplug the cable?
At the moment I have an older Raytheon radar and it seems that the cable was cut by the connector when installing (everything worked fine).
Any suggestions, links to videos etc?
Thanks
|
|
SY Racer
Full Member
Posts: 49
Jeanneau Model: SO 34.2
Yacht Name: Racer
Home Port: Kiel
Country: Germany
|
Post by SY Racer on Jun 13, 2023 11:44:04 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ales on Jun 13, 2023 12:56:08 GMT
Thanks.
I got in touch with Raymarine Customer support (btw; they replied really fast).
They say that in no circumstances I should cut the data cable. Beside loosing warranty, technical problems can occur.
So at the moment my thinking goes towards getting the data (and power, but this one can be cut) trough the mast and trough the deck via gooseneck. The only way I see to get that connector trough.
When trough, I'll bind it with additional data cable and get it to MFD (Axiom+).
That way I'll have no problems disconnecting the cable if needed (mast removal) and also data cable won't be cut.
So I'll get rid of all that nasty trough-hull cable seals that I am afraid are leaking (common SO43DS problem).
I guess I have to remove the mast and do the major repair.
Looking forward:(
If anyone has any better idea... you're welcome.
When I'll start the job, I'll post it here.
One other question: any experience with MFD displays? Should I go fro Axiom+ 9 or 12?
|
|
SY Racer
Full Member
Posts: 49
Jeanneau Model: SO 34.2
Yacht Name: Racer
Home Port: Kiel
Country: Germany
|
Post by SY Racer on Jun 13, 2023 14:23:35 GMT
Technical problems may occur when you try to connect the cables like the usual electrician will do (with ordinary screw terminals). I saw "solutions" like that in computer networks from time to time in the past. Normal terminals will for sure cause problems. The standards for ethernet are quite strict (given the fact you want to transfer a gigabit per second or 10 gigabit per second).
NEMA2000 (aka seatalk-ng) transmits data at a rate of 250kb/s compared to 1Gb/s for ethernet. That means ethernet data rate might be 4000 times the data rate of NMEA2000, resulting in much higher requirements for the cabling.
What works for NMEA200 will not work for RayNet (aka ethernet), as with higher data rates any change of the cable impedance will lead to reflections of the signal at the junction.
Fortunately the problem of connecting ethernet cables was solved by the telecommunication engineers some time ago, resulting in connectors exactly produced for the purpose. These connectors will ensure the cable impedance of 100 Ohm (ethernet) is matched at the junction to prevent unwanted reflections.
Assuming the connectors are fitted the right way you will not experience any problems. They are used on a regular base in high speed ethernet networks and are proven to work.
BTW: Raymarine sells adapter cables between and RayNet usual ethernet (RJ45).
|
|
|
|
Post by bereboot on Jun 13, 2023 18:29:56 GMT
Of you have the place? Go for the 12 version. We have the axiom +9 and often find the screen to small. Also we would now opt for something with "knobs" instead of tactile only.
|
|
|
|
Post by Charlie-Bravo on Jun 13, 2023 20:29:03 GMT
Practically speaking, I’m with SY Racer’s thoughts , and I don’t like drilling holes in the boat, but when you have to, like to keep them small, but understand your not wanting to chop the cable and spoil any warranty, radars from Raymarine are not budget friendly items after all, and suspect Raymarine would like you to buy and use their own cables, they do this well, and usually offer ‘extension cables’ at quite a price, and they give their plugs and sockets names seatalk ng, Raynet etc, and make sure you can’t just plug in to a normal network without at least buying a Raymarine adapter to keep you on board with them, and make mixing their kit with others seem like a mine field to the average sailor, would be so much simpler if they all used tech industry standard connectors.
At base level, they are a wire, all be it with specific qualities and shielding, and can be attached to connectors ……. Raymarine do it, and so can you.
If your fine cable with huge connectors should get damaged once the warranty period has expired, there are some jolly good ‘field’ Cat7 RJ45 connectors that don’t even need special crimps to install , just handy to know later on perhaps.
Your initial challenge may be getting the 20mm connectors through the mast, I don’t have experience of your mast but some have ‘anti clatter’ foam inserts to stop the noise of loose cables, and should this be the case, I have found that to first thread a small mouse line, followed by a larger, and larger, until your mouse is as big or bigger than the connector, seems to work well ……. but haven’t had to go up to a 20mm mouse, (perhaps that’s called a Rat) about 12mm was my worst case, never had to use anchor warp to pull a cable!
It might just be worth a chat with your local Raymarine dealer, ask how they thread these through masts, they might just enlighten us all on the conundrum, ……. or not, but if you don’t ask ….
Perhaps an external mast conduit ? not that I have seen those used much nowadays except on timber masts.
Good luck on the install, and spread the knowledge when it’s done.
CB
|
|
|
|
Post by ales on Jun 14, 2023 6:13:31 GMT
Thanks for the replies. @sy racer and @charile-Bravo I know it is just a cable and not a rocket science despite it is presented like that from the manufacturer:) I almost bought radar and MFD but now I see it is more that just buying it. I was surprised by the lack of installing information about radar (cables) on the internet. There is no youtube video that would cure my curiosity. Everybody is just filming the mounting of the radar (a few rivets.. .so what...). Of course I'll ask the local dealer. I wonder what will be his solution. In Trieste (Italy) the dealer told me not to cut the cable... At the moment I have an old version of Raytheon and Raymarine RL70C that stopped working. Well it was 20 years... So there is wiring trough the mast (no foam as far as I know). It's Sparcraft mast: does anybody have a pic of a profile/cut of the mast? I will dig even more in this project and hopefully after the summer the installation will begin. I also have thoughts about size. bereboot I'll consider the 12" version. Softouch is something I also do not like but in this price range B&G has the same solution. Maybe it won't be Raymarine although I have autopilot, wind-meter and sounding from Raymarine and I want to make it part of the new system. So is B&G MFD and radar compatible with Raymarine autopilot via adapter kit? Many questions, not just the data cable problem. But I have time to find the best solution. As mentioned SO43DS has also DECK MAST STEP PROBLEMS SO43DSso making a refit seem a vise idea. And when the mast is down I can change all the cables, mount new radar etc.. Maybe change the rigging:) Here are some pics of a current situaton:   |
|
|
|
Post by jy51 on Jun 14, 2023 8:52:12 GMT
I am in the process of buying and installing new radar (Raymarine doppler) and MFD and I can not find a good advice, how to run data cable (that has 2cm wide connector on both sides of the cable) trough the mast and deck. Raymarine said the pin on the cable should not be cut off. So getting the cable with that pin trough the mast and getting it out at the base is one thing but drilling a hole 2cm wide in the deck and then installing it all the way to the cockpit where MFD is... (that is 25 of cable). Should I make a cable extension inside the boat where the cable gets trough, so if I have to remove the mast, I will just unplug the cable? At the moment I have an older Raytheon radar and it seems that the cable was cut by the connector when installing (everything worked fine). Any suggestions, links to videos etc? Thanks Maybe I am mistaken but if you have the newer Raymarine displays you can connect the radar with its own wifi with no need to instal a cable. |
|
SY Racer
Full Member
Posts: 49
Jeanneau Model: SO 34.2
Yacht Name: Racer
Home Port: Kiel
Country: Germany
|
Post by SY Racer on Jun 14, 2023 10:19:25 GMT
Just to add another issue: I lost the mast of a chartered etap32 two years ago. The mast broke in bft 5 condition with two reefs just at the point where the stainless steel mount of the radar was riveted to the aluminum mast. All shrouds and stays intact. I guess (and it was the guess of the insurer as well) that corrosion took place at the contact area between stainless steel and aluminum due to lack of isolation of the different metals. As we weren't able to recover the mast with a short handed crew, the mast couldn't be inspected afterwards, so the insurer couldn't prove the theory of corrosion.
I would recommend to make sure to isolate contact area of the radar mount from the mast if different metals are involved. Check for corrosion if using an existing mount!
|
|
|
|
Post by ales on Jun 14, 2023 11:34:27 GMT
jy51I know about wifi connection. Call me old-fashioned despite I am in my late 40s but I prefer cable. I believe that we became slaves of technology and we are dealing most of the time with upgrades, connections... My style in old school in this case. @sy Racer All rivets are aluminium. If there would be some other material a suitable washer would go in between Otherwise I see no problem in drilling holes. In my case, there would be the same number of holes only the existing data cable hole would be slightly bigger.
|
|
SY Racer
Full Member
Posts: 49
Jeanneau Model: SO 34.2
Yacht Name: Racer
Home Port: Kiel
Country: Germany
|
Post by SY Racer on Jun 14, 2023 12:06:46 GMT
Ales, working decades now in the telecommunication and computer industry I totally agree with you: a cable is a cable is a cable  And yes, I'm old fashioned, too. cu |
|
|
|
Post by jy51 on Jun 15, 2023 8:45:22 GMT
jy51 I know about wifi connection. Call me old-fashioned despite I am in my late 40s but I prefer cable. I believe that we became slaves of technology and we are dealing most of the time with upgrades, connections... My style in old school in this case. @sy Racer All rivets are aluminium. If there would be some other material a suitable washer would go in between Otherwise I see no problem in drilling holes. In my case, there would be the same number of holes only the existing data cable hole would be slightly bigger. On commissioning, my radar was set up with a cable so if a problem occurred I had the wifi to fall back on. But just to play devils advocate, cables have connections and in a marine environment regularly corrode, both my bow navigation lights needed the connectors cleaned as they intermittently worked and now my anchor light has stopped working. Old fashioned needn't mean best. |
|
|
|
Post by bereboot on Jun 15, 2023 10:04:57 GMT
|
|
SY Racer
Full Member
Posts: 49
Jeanneau Model: SO 34.2
Yacht Name: Racer
Home Port: Kiel
Country: Germany
|
Post by SY Racer on Jun 15, 2023 13:06:22 GMT
jy51 I know about wifi connection. Call me old-fashioned despite I am in my late 40s but I prefer cable. I believe that we became slaves of technology and we are dealing most of the time with upgrades, connections... My style in old school in this case. @sy Racer All rivets are aluminium. If there would be some other material a suitable washer would go in between Otherwise I see no problem in drilling holes. In my case, there would be the same number of holes only the existing data cable hole would be slightly bigger. On commissioning, my radar was set up with a cable so if a problem occurred I had the wifi to fall back on. But just to play devils advocate, cables have connections and in a marine environment regularly corrode, both my bow navigation lights needed the connectors cleaned as they intermittently worked and now my anchor light has stopped working. Old fashioned needn't mean best. So, the next step in technology should be wifi-connected anchor and position lights  Unfortunately, there's no such thing as POE over WIFI, so in any case you will need a cable to power the lights (and the radar antenna) But you are right, there are wireless wind sensors from B&G on the market that eliminate the need for cabling at least for wind instruments. So may be at some point in time we will have wireless sensors for radar as well, perhaps with a small solar cell and a buffering battery. We then will fight corroded wifi antennas and dead batteres instead of corroded cables  |
|
|
|
Post by jy51 on Jun 16, 2023 8:31:46 GMT
SY Racer, I'm not sure why you quoted me in your last comment and opinion?
I don’t recall advocating wifi connected navigation and anchor lights or even radar.
I didn't even think my comment was worthy of a reply as I simply stated that even old technology doesn’t always work well, which it doesn't!
This can clearly be seen with electrical connectors that corrode after 4 years use in a marine environment.
|
|
SY Racer
Full Member
Posts: 49
Jeanneau Model: SO 34.2
Yacht Name: Racer
Home Port: Kiel
Country: Germany
|
Post by SY Racer on Jun 16, 2023 11:48:34 GMT
SY Racer, I'm not sure why you quoted me in your last comment and opinion? I don’t recall advocating wifi connected navigation and anchor lights or even radar. I didn't even think my comment was worthy of a reply as I simply stated that even old technology doesn’t always work well, which it doesn't! This can clearly be seen with electrical connectors that corrode after 4 years use in a marine environment. jy51, sorry, it was not my intention to offend anyone. |
|
|
|
Post by jy51 on Jun 18, 2023 8:51:39 GMT
SY Racer, thank you, but really no need to apologise, I was not offended. Just didn't understand the bases of your comments as I did say I was playing devils advocate, maybe you misunderstood.
|
|
|
|
Post by virtualburton on Jun 19, 2023 18:45:41 GMT
FWIW I installed the new Quantum II Doppler about two months ago on my mast.
I cut the cable, ran it through a sealing gland at the base of the mast, then into a small waterproof box that I mounted above the shower on my 469. I installed a Terminal block in the box and just ran the same wires in one side and and out of the other and then down the mast pole on the inside of the cabin, under the floor, and over to the side and out my regular wiring channels to the MFD.
Raynet is just ethernet so it's the standard 8 wires, no big deal.
It works fine for me and I've had no issues.
David
|
|
