obione
Junior Member
Posts: 11
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Post by obione on Apr 7, 2023 14:48:32 GMT
Hello, I have a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 49 from 2006. Originally it should have had a refrigerator (big box next to the stove) and a freezer (smaller box next to the refrigerator). When I bought the boat used, it only had the Frigomatic Elba 35F, but no Freezer or compressor for the freezer. So the big box has an evaporator and a thermostat. The small box has no evaportaor (anymore), but the holes, where once an evaporator was mounted, and a thermostat.
Looking below the stove, I see only enough space for one compressor but I can see a cable for the thermostat (coming from the small box) and a second pair of quick-couplings from the compressor. And I can see a Frigomatic Mod Master, which is connected to nothing (see attached photos).
Unfortunately the information from Frigomatic/Frigoboat are quite sparse (or Veco.net), which I contacted. But other than trying to sell me one more compressor, they were not answering any of my questions.
Does the Frigomatic Elba 35F allow for connecting two evaporators to it? Does the Frigomatic Elba 35F allow for two thermostats to connect to it (maybe using the Mod Master)?
Do I need another compressor to have a working freezer? How was this originally designed?
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Post by Charlie-Bravo on Apr 7, 2023 20:00:35 GMT
Hi, just as no knowledge seems forthcoming, and having fiddled with fridges a bit, here are my thoughts.
To have a true independent fridge and freezer, you would normally have two independent thermostats and for simplicity, two compressors, or for a more complex set up , a switching valve for the refrigerant lines to cool one or the other evaporator plates. thermostatically controlled.
But …… with your set up, already having extra evaporator lines with ‘no loss’ quick couplers and no mention of a switching valve, plus no vacancy of space for another compressor, I feel that this could work with the thermostat controlling the fridge side of things, and the fact that the freezer compartment is smaller in capacity, but with perhaps a similar sized evaporator plate as the fridge , this would have the tendency to freeze the smaller box, evaporator plates in fridges often ice over, and the overall cooling capability is down to the size of the box and how many pizzas / beer you stash in the box, how many times the lid is opened and for how long, plus the ambient temperature of your galley, technically a bit of a random system with little control of the freezer side temperature , …….. but as long as there is ice for G&T and the pizza stays frozen it’s a result, and if the milk doesn’t freeze in the fridge, the balance of cooling is correct.
Your ‘Mod’ controller gives you the opportunity to change the speed of the compressor, depending on which spade connection you choose, as bigger fridge box’s would need a faster run to maintain the cold temperature required, hence the label on the box giving the biggest size in litres also says freezer, must be a clue there.
I could be wrong, but with the given info on your set up it looks like the evaporator in the freezer box gave up at some point, and so the owner just removed it and lived with only a fridge.
Hope my rambling deduction helps in some way, and that someone with actual knowledge of your model comes along soon.
CB
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Post by zaphod on Apr 8, 2023 18:13:00 GMT
Yes, it looks to me like the previous owner decided to eliminate 1 evaporator. I suspect both boxes were refrigerators since there is no apparent means to isolate the fridge evaporator when it is satisfied.
The unused controller allows for a selectable compressor speed control. I can't tell from the pics, but it is possible that the PO upgraded to a better compressor module that automatically modulates compressor speeds, eliminating the need for manual speed selection.
See if you can get a pic of the label on the compressor module.
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Post by loredo on Apr 9, 2023 8:12:31 GMT
The SO49 came with two compressors both in the locker under the kitchen. The one for the freezer (which from the factory could be turned into fridge) is a keel cooled BD35. Search for the for the keel cooler, it's under the floor close to the compressor compartment. Also, when my freezer unit failed it was due to the blocked capilliar tube in the evaporator plate. My best advice would be to replace the whole system. Compressor, keel cooler, evaporator. BTW, to switch the freezer into fridge : look into the compartment with the sliding door behind the freezer. There's the small box with two thermostat knobs and a switch in the between them. Left thermostat = freezer, right thermostat = fridge, the switch is to change the freezer thermostat into fridge temperature range.
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Post by knotsmart on Apr 11, 2023 16:46:05 GMT
my vote would be to install an additional whole separate system for the freezer
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Post by GrahamT on Apr 12, 2023 6:26:09 GMT
Our SO49 (2004) has the fridge compressor under the stove and the freezer compresser behind the garbage bin. The freezer is raw water cooled with through hull in the forward cabin and the strainer and pump mounted on the forward side panel behind the bin. The outlet is via the sink drain. We replaced the entire "guts" of the system a few years ago (new evaporator and compressor), retaining the original raw water setup.
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obione
Junior Member
Posts: 11
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Post by obione on Apr 15, 2023 20:15:56 GMT
The SO49 came with two compressors both in the locker under the kitchen. The one for the freezer (which from the factory could be turned into fridge) is a keel cooled BD35. Search for the for the keel cooler, it's under the floor close to the compressor compartment. Also, when my freezer unit failed it was due to the blocked capilliar tube in the evaporator plate. My best advice would be to replace the whole system. Compressor, keel cooler, evaporator. BTW, to switch the freezer into fridge : look into the compartment with the sliding door behind the freezer. There's the small box with two thermostat knobs and a switch in the between them. Left thermostat = freezer, right thermostat = fridge, the switch is to change the freezer thermostat into fridge temperature range. Thanks for your (and all other insights). Upon further examination today onboard I realized, that the second pair of couplings seemed like it was coming from the compressor, but the former own just put a new compressor ontop the hole, where the cold-tubes from the keel-cooler where coming from, which made it look like, the compressor had four couplings.
So to have a freezer I need to buy another compressor and connect it. If the former owner didn't waste so much space there, this would be an easy (but expensive) task, since I only would have to buy it and install it.
But the way the Elba35F is designed it has to stand sideways and takes up to much space, rather than turning it 90° and then being able to use two compressors side by side. I will have to tinker with the air-cooling on the Elba to be able to turn it 90°C, then I can install the second compressor. Attached my "plan"... 
It's obviously a boat job. Since it could be easy, but isn't.  |
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Post by so40gtb on Apr 30, 2023 1:14:11 GMT
Graham's observation is spot-on. Our SO40, Voyageur, has had the Isotherm refrigerant-to-seawater heat exchanger system for 10 years now and I would not go back to refrigerant-to-air. We observed a 40% drop in fridge power consumption when cruising the Great Lakes with this scheme.
--Karl
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obione
Junior Member
Posts: 11
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Post by obione on May 7, 2023 16:43:41 GMT
Yes, I switched back to the original setup, although I have not installed it yet. So its a Frigoboat K35F (Keel Cooler) for the Freezer and the Elba 35F with air cooling for the fridge.
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Post by loredo on May 8, 2023 6:55:54 GMT
You will also replace the evaporator plate in the freezer and the keel cooler?
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obione
Junior Member
Posts: 11
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Post by obione on May 11, 2023 18:58:38 GMT
You will also replace the evaporator plate in the freezer and the keel cooler? No, there was no evaporator, so I installed the 200F now and the keel cooler is the original one. So far I am unsure if the K35F is up to the task to cool the freezer down with just the keel cooling. |
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Post by zaphod on May 11, 2023 19:24:51 GMT
So you are using the old keel cooler? Were the refrigeration pipes to the keel cooler just cut and left open? What is your plan for reconnecting the keel cooler to the new condensing unit?
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Post by loredo on May 12, 2023 4:48:54 GMT
The BD35 F is what was installed from the factory and has always worked very well for me. Even in the warmest (read hottest) climates and waters. IMHO keeping the old keel cooler is a very bad idea. You need to do your due deligence and get documented with all the problems that can come from them keel coolers. The web is full of stories...
In addition, each single component comes precharged with the correct quantity of refrigerant liquid. What did you do with the old keel cooler? Did you pull the vaccum? Did you add refrigerant? I wish you to be lucky and everything works out as a OK but me think you're looking for (further) trouble.
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Post by zaphod on May 12, 2023 16:16:27 GMT
The BD35 F is what was installed from the factory and has always worked very well for me. Even in the warmest (read hottest) climates and waters. IMHO keeping the old keel cooler is a very bad idea. You need to do your due deligence and get documented with all the problems that can come from them keel coolers. The web is full of stories...
In addition, each single component comes precharged with the correct quantity of refrigerant liquid. What did you do with the old keel cooler? Did you pull the vaccum? Did you add refrigerant? I wish you to be lucky and everything works out as a OK but me think you're looking for (further) trouble.
Yes, this is exactly what my concern is. Who is to say that the old system wasn't removed due to a keel cooler failure. Certainly in can be re-used if it is in good condition. The correct procedure to "re-commission" an abandoned refrigeration component like that would be as follows: Pressure test with nitrogen to ensure it isn't leaking. Purge with nitrogen to remove any old oil and other possible contaminants. If the old compressor ran low on refrigerant it likely pumped a significant amount of it's oil charge into the condenser, (that is what the keel cooler is). If the compressor burned out, that oil would be acidic, and if introduced into the new system, it will quickly attack the windings of the new compressor. Even if the oil logged in the condenser is clean, it could end up over filling the crankcase of the new compressor. Vacuum pump the condenser to remove nitrogen and moisture. If the condenser still has the quick couplers attached, you need to find a way to do all of this through those couplers. If the couplers are cut off, you will need to braze on new couplers, or eliminate the couplers and hard pipe it to the system. That is a whole can of worms you probably don't want to open unless you have a refrigeration tech do it. Simply connecting a new system to an old keel cooler without following the above procedures is a really bad idea, and you will likely have reliability issues, and possible premature failure of the new system. |
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obione
Junior Member
Posts: 11
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Post by obione on Jun 2, 2023 9:36:54 GMT
I whish I read your comments, before I installed the freezer or planned this whole thing. :-D But lets start from the top.
The whole refrigeration system was stolen back in Greece, when the boat was on the hard for almost 10 years. Only the keel cooler was not stolen, since its not easy removable. The previous owner (who bought it from the hard and restored it) just re-installed the fridge system and left the freezer/second fridge untouched.
Yes, that's what I had. Unfortunately I was so naiv, thinking the keel cooler will still have refrigerant in it. A mistake I won't make twice. The system was working for about a day, then the temperatures rose and the compressor got warm. That's when I (thankfully) decided to turn the system off! Since I was already on the way, I have been searching for a cooler-specialist since Klintholm DK. Always being redirected to the next harbour, which "certainly" has someone, at times with a name. A few days ago we arrived in Kalmar SE, where - thanks to the tourist bureau - after two days a house appliance technician was found. He just needed the name of the model and came the next morning, purged the system, checked the whole system with a vacuum for 15min, if it was holding it. Then re-charged it with R134a (the coolant). We are now in our third day using it. The freezer goes down to the temperatures, the ice cubes are freezing, the evaporator is gathering a bit of ice at the top (I guess the seal on the lid is not perfect anymore or could be better) and sometimes it *gurgles*, like somebody is drinking very very fast. But the system is up to pressure, it is cooling and not even on the highest settings. The compressor is cool, but not icy.
Looks good, but doesn't sound perfect. Maybe good enough until we are back in September and can check the pressure once more.
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