Quick Windlass odd behavior

[moonshadow]

Hi. I have a 2014 boat with a 1000 watt, 12 volt quick windlass. Lately when I start the windlass either up or down it starts out very slowly for about 5 seconds and then comes up to normal speed. This is very consistent now. Once up to speed I can change direction without a problem at normal speed. I use the windlass, a lot. I anchor almost nightly for about 6 months every year. The voltages I can easily get to seem correct and the electrical connections look good. I have not yet been able to get a meter on every connection. I disassembled and greased the accessible parts.
I am starting to think the motor is about at end of life but before I order a new motor I’m looking for suggestions to check. I’m currently in the Bahamas and experts and parts are hard to locate.
Thanks for your ideas.
Paul

[Zanshin]

Do you have a clamp ammeter? If you could measure the power draw directly at the relay for the windlass you could see if the problem is mechanical (something binding/rubbing when first starting the windlass) if the initial amps are high or electrical if the draw isn't higher than later while the windlass is running at normal speed. This would be best done with little strain on the windlass, such as when lowering the anchor chain.

[Mistroma]

It might be worth looking at the commutator and brushes. No idea if it will solve your problem but it isn't difficult to do. A clean up might extend the life of your windlass.

I anchor a lot during the summer and did check mine out a few years ago. They were in perfect condition but overdue another check this year.

It was fairly easy to remove the brushes to examine them and the commutator.

Motor with a brush removed www.mistroma.com/Quick1000W_DSCN4278.jpg

All 4 brushes, looked good at the time. I compared them with pics. in this document www.mistroma.com/SurfaceAppearanceOfBrushes.pdf

Brush surfaces had good sheen (equiv. S2/S3) and commutator was also OK (equiv. P/P2).

I measured the partly worn brushes to help find replacements, assuming I'd buy new ones a few mm longer.

Tangential 12.9mm
Axial 8.9mm
Radial 24.4mm

Longer brushes would be OK as they need to be bedded in using abrasive tape to get correct curvature.

Picture of brushes www.mistroma.com/Quick1000WBrush.jpg


I noticed that original Quick brushes were very expensive at around £100 for a set. I'd try to source non-Quick replacements with similar current specifications.

I think the Quick Part No. might be FVSSR1012Q00A00 or EMF101200000
Current absorption at working load 140A

[moonshadow]

Thank you both for the replies and the information. And the pictures! I was able to test the current (120amps when slow, 80 amps when at normal speed) and I had a talk with quick tech help. Bottom line is that my brushes are likely finished. New brushes from quick are about $280 USD!! A new motor is $697 USD. But it turns out that when my motor finishes its life it will trip the breaker and stop working. So it looks like I will keep using it as is for the next few weeks and hope it keeps working and keep the hand crank ready to use. I don’t plan on making any stops between the Bahamas and my home slip in Virginia so it won’t be an issue soon. Then I can find reasonable priced brushes and repair it myself or buy a new motor when I am home.
Again, I appreciate all the help with this issue and the other issues that you have all helped me with over the past few years.
Paul

[Zanshin]

Thanks for updating the thread - that's what makes this a great resource! Often threads in forums contain the original question, several possible answers, and then ... nothing.

Good luck; I'd try to service the brushes myself, but expect failure and having to get a new motor

[moonshadow]

I agree that it is useful to hear of the eventual solution to the questions posted. I will soon be heading back home and will have more resources so, like you, I will do my best to repair this motor with the knowledge that it may become more of a learning experience than an effective repair.
Given that I am wondering if I should consider the 1500 watt to replace my 1000. As far as I can see looking at the Quick Aleph manual and parts list all the motors will fit and work with the same gearbox and above deck parts. I think the 1000 watt unit is recommended for boats generally smaller than mine. I anchor out usually over 125 nights per year and I would like to know thoughts on if the bigger motor might give a longer life. Seems to me that generally it’s better to size things in the middle of recommended range rather than at their maximum.
Any thoughts from anyone here?

[moonshadow]

Additional thought to the above question about upsizing the windlass motor. I realized that my circuit breaker is 100 amps and I don’t expect that the cable wiring was oversized by Jeanneau. So it’s probably a good idea to stick with the 1000 watt motor. I’ll still do my research when I get home from this trip in a few weeks though.

[NZL50505]

Had a 1000W Quick on my 42DS which died. I replaced it with a 1400W (same mounting points) and my marine electrician confirmed the wiring was sufficient to cope. Noticed a big difference in the ease of raising anchor especially in fresher conditions.

[NZL50505]

Point of interest - I was told that as a cost cutting measure Jeanneau have been known to fit undersized Quick windlasses eg only 800 or 1000W motors on boats that really need 1200 or 1400W. And they replace the small gypsy eg 8mm with bigger one to carry bigger chain eg 10 or 12mm, to make the whole unit appear more grunty than it really is.

That’s another reason I wasn’t surprised to find that my undersized unit struggled with my 42DS, hence upgraded to 1400W.

[rxc]

Do you have a chain counter? If so, then you should remove the windlass top parts to see whether the magnet for the counter has corroded and swelled, and is now rubbing against the bottom of the windlass chainwheel. I just did this a couple of weeks ago (for the third time). If I get to take the windlass apart this weekend, I will post some photos. Now working on wiring, with a requirement to entertain relatives on the boat today.

[moonshadow]

RXC. Thanks. That is where I started my troubleshooting. Had to rule out mechanical issues. Those magnets don’t last forever!

[rick63]

Hi,

I have the exact same issue with my Quick windlass. It started last season but got worse this year. Spent the last two day stripping the whole thing down and discovered two or three issues which may contribute to the problem.

1. The top of the base plate which the gypsy sits on and where the shaft is mounted was extremely corroded so could have caused some friction although I don’t think that would cause the slow start then speeding up. I have ordered a new base plate as the corrosion was significant.
2. Shaft bearing in the base plate has significant play and running rough. Again not sure this would cause the symptoms I gave. I have ordered a shaft bearing and seal kit to fit to the new base when it arrives.
3. When i removed the end cap of the motor it had a significant amount of oil in it and the brushes were contaminated. Traced the oil to a leak on the gearbox oil seal where the motor shaft goes in. Because the motor was well sealed to the gearbox the oil leaking from the gearbox could not go anywhere except sit round the motor shaft then leak into the motor casing. I suspect this is the cause of the motor starting slowly then speeding up. I have ordered a new set of brushes for the motor and cleaned out as much of the oil from the electric motor as possible. When I inspected the gearbox it only had a small amount of oil left in it. I decided not to replace the gearbox as it was running smoothly but will monitor oil level. I may also see if I can create a route where any oil leaking from the gearbox does not find its way into the electric motor.

Now waiting for the spare parts to arrive so I can rebuild and refit. Will update this thread when I get it all back into the boat. Unfortunately the base plate has a three to four week lead time to get it from Italy to the UK.

On the plus side I am away for the next four weeks on a delivery trip bringing a Jeanneau 53 back from St Lucia to the UK so hopefully all the bits will be there when I get home.

[moonshadow]

Thanks for your info. I removed my motor and found the same issue. A little bit of oil dropped out from the gearbox and the motor was apparently full of the oil.
I had a local starter/alternator etc shop take apart the motor, clean the insides up from the oil, and replace the brushes. This cost me $125 US. Considering Quick wants $330 or so just for the brushes I think this was a good move.
Now…. I am wondering where to get oils seals for the gearbox. Quick is not being responsive. I have no idea where else to start. I would like to do the work myself but I might make things worse so I’ll look for someplace that repairs mechanical gears and see what I learn.

[rene460]

Hi Moonshadow, in this country there are several stores that sell bearings, names like Bearing Supply and similar.  They also sell seals and well worth trying for the ones you want.  You will need to know the relevant sizing and seal style, but worth a try.  I am sure there will be similar places where ever you are.  I assume Bahamas also needs ball bearing supply, so worth a look.  I assume you have tried the local Yanmar mechanics.

rene460

[moonshadow]

Quick says that the gearbox is not able to be opened at all. So no seal replacement. So I bought a new gearbox and installed it with my rebuilt motor and all is working well. I saved the old gearbox and I will take it apart and see if it really is repairable.

[ianf]

My Quick windlass (1000W) failed this summer while dropping the anchor in high winds. All went well but before I could get the snubber on the chain started paying out uncontrollably. I just managed to stop it with the snubber hook before the whole chain was out.
When I got a look at it I found the motor and gearbox had dropped off the windlass shaft altogether. I was amazed that the whole weight of the gearbox and motor and the torsional resistance was held by four short M6 Allen screws into the top bearing cap of the gearbox. the screws had sheared through the mounting points on the cover.

Luckily I noticed that the bottom bearing cap of the gearbox is exactly the same as the top cover so I drained and dismantled the gearbox and swapped the top and bottom covers around. So far it is working well but I'm going to make a support bracket to go underneath and bolt it to the bulkhead and to a new bearing cap if I can get hold of one. My gearbox is a "Quick by Riduttori" one.

Has anyone got a link to where I can buy spares for this gearbox?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[moonshadow]

I’m not certain of your model windlass. But Quick is usually good about answering questions when you call their tech support number. My quick windlass is attached with studs through the gearbox and the above deck portions with nuts on both essentially the deck is sandwiched between.