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Post by reverie on Oct 6, 2009 1:53:02 GMT
Hello all, The original 135% Sobstad genoa on my 2004 SO35 is just about fully depreciated, and I'd like to buy a new sail this fall. It seems to be a good time right now to get some nice discounts from various manufacturers!  My initial thoughts are that I simply get another 135% and not upsize to something a bit larger - ie. a 140% or a 150%. My rationale is as follows: - I seem to have done a fair bit of sailing in 10 to 15 knots in Georgian Bay (Ontario, Canada) last summer (my first summer with the boat), and the 135% seemed big enough. However, we also had a few clunker 2 to 7 knot days! - The current 135% sets up properly when fully unfurled when the jib car is ~18 inches (50 centimetres) from the end of the track, so not sure how much bigger I could go without extending the track, which I don't want to do. - The boat is primarily used for family cruising (although I would like to do a bit of club racing in the next couple of years) so comfort is key. Has anyone upgraded their SO35 with anything bigger than a 135%? Could you please let me know of any issues with the length of jib car track? And in what wind speed do you need to begin furling the genoa. Any insights much appreciated. Thanks, John |
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Post by MartyB on Oct 6, 2009 3:40:53 GMT
This is what I did......
I have an Ullman 155 fiberpath for race day, and an Ullman CAL 140 for the daysail/cruise times, along with a 110 for windier times. I will admit I do not have RFurling. But if I did, the 140 would be setup for furling, the 155 would not, remove the drum when racing and hoist the 155 at the line etc. The 140 would be on when cruising. along with setting it up for days racing, when the wind will be too much for the 155. There is one guy in our club, who races a Catalina 30, he is toying with being able to drop his furled 155 to use a light wt drifter on those less than 6-7 knot days, as the 155 is to heavy! as is my fiberpath for that matter. Amazing what the 130 1.5 oz nylon drifter will pickup for power in the zephers vs my fiberpath!
I know some race with furlers, but you will not be as competitive with a furled sail on windier days than going to a smaller jib that is ment to be smaller. Maybe get a 135-140 for cruising day sailing, along with later if you really get into it, a string type genoa for race days. Granted the more expensive way to go, but better in the long run.
Also, Ullman San Diego had/has an order now, deliver in march with a 30% discount. I went with that last year, would have ordered, was hoping to order a BIG symetric spin this fall, but with my biz down 70%, that is not happening this year!
Marty
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Post by renegade27 on Oct 6, 2009 10:37:23 GMT
Hi, Reverie - I was the (almost) owner of your boat last fall, under contract as the economic world was falling apart. I've seen your posts and glad the boat is a good one.
I ended up buying a SO35 this spring with things settled and am thrilled with it (except my ability to reside at the top of the club racing pecking order as I was used to!).
I'm also replacing my jib this winter. I stayed with a 135% as I've been fine with light air sailing but less so with heavy air (roundups and sideways drift). If you do race at all there is a pretty generous PHRF rating benefit with keeping max overlap to 135%.
I'm having my used Elvstrom "bi-radial" sail cut down to 80-100% (once the sailmaker gets it he will decide). They can put a sleeve on the luff that clips around the furled everyday jib and stays much more aerodynamic than a furled headsail - not to mention the wear on using your regular headsail in 20+ knots of wind! This can't be realistically done on either a cross cut or a tri-radial based on sail shaping techniques, but the inexpensive "production" biradial is shaped by the luff cut (apparently) and not by tapers in the panel. Perfect to be cut down.
Anyway - good luck with your decision - don't go too big - my (limited) experience so far is the boat gets overpowered easily.
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Post by MartyB on Oct 6, 2009 15:19:41 GMT
Renegade,
Is the boat reverie has or name to,,,,,,anyway, is it a deep keel vs you shoal draft? That "might" make a reasonable difference as to how much rounding up you do with a bigger sail in heavier airs.
Not sure what the differences are in your area vs here in puget sound, 140 will give you the same credit as a 135 IIRC, I have the how to rate a boat here in the NW excel spread sheet for my boat from our handicapper. It is fun to play with different sail shapes and sizes to see where the splits endup.
here is the code adjustments for a jib in phrf-nw
SAFJ CODE Adjustment
0.000 2 9
0.820 2 9
0.860 2 9
0.900 3 6
0.940 4 3
0.970 5 0
1.010 6 -3
1.050 7 -6
1.090 8 -9
1.130 9 -12
1.170 L -15
For max sail area and what you have is
Jib: Size Calculations
0.775*I*J 341.11 std
0.5*LLJ*LP 348.42 act
As such, my genoa is a code 6, about half way to a code 7. shoulda had about 4 more sq ft added! LOL It was ment to be a code 5, but something got screwed up!
This might help the two of you figuring out how big a jib to have for max credits etc. THere are similar tables etc for the man and spin too.
Marty
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Post by reverie on Oct 6, 2009 18:30:55 GMT
Many thanks, both.
Marty, the boat is a shoal draft keel. I agree with Renegade's assessment of how the boat handles in heavier air. At 14 - 15 knots, the boat is a handful with full sails up. A fair bit of heel and weather helm. By 15 knots, I"m certainly furling. So I think a good plan for me might be to stick with the 135, as he did.
I appreciate that this approach might not be optimizing the phrf numbers, but realistically that's a secondary consideration for me. When I become more serious about the cans, I can consider gearing up with a bigger sail.
Btw, Marty, what boat do you have? And did you need to extend your jib car track to accomodate your 155%?
Renegade - Congrats on the SO35. Obviously, your enjoying yours as much as I like mine! Great idea about cutting down the original Sobstad 135%. I will look into this also.
John
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Post by MartyB on Oct 6, 2009 19:40:38 GMT
John, I have an older 30' Arcadia I race/cruise in northern puget sound. My boat being from back in 85 when bigger head sails were somewhat the norm came with ~6/2M' tracks, so I did not need to extend the tracks. I would like to admit, I did buy some 8'/2.5M tracks and put them on. A two or three fold reason. My original tracks were too far back and out side for a 110 or smaller jib. SO when I had a 110 made, the folks at North suggested some 2' tracks just aft of the mast and inside the shrouds on the cabin top. Gives me an 8-9% sheet angle for upwind work, and works really well for my original Storm jib. The new outside tracks, I did get some addition towards the stern, BUT more importantly, some addition forward, so I am able to sheet the 110 on runs and reaches to this track giving me better sheeting angles for the 110. This was really cool last march in a race with mid 30 knot winds on a down wind run. Worked much better for the run, I feel adding some 2 knots at times to my speed. Hit 11+ a few times surfing some 3-5' waves. It was fun until the accidental gybe that broke the boom! The new track addition is in the hints and tips HERE I should have a photo some where with a pic of the old tracks. But if you look at the first pic, you can see where my daughter is cleaning the dirt/debris from the original tracks, and how far they were behind the side shrouds. All in all, doing the line control carr's is a great to almost needed addition for any and ALL boats IMHO, as when you do reef the jib, you need to move the carr, line control cars and having tracks that are long enough, allow ALL to have proper shaped etc of your jib, better power, faster boat speed, less heeling/sideways travel etc. As far as the sizing goes. for cruising, I do like the 135 I had, now a 140, racing, the 6 second credit from base, I got for the smaller sail was not enough to make up for the larger sail. I've more than made up the 9secs a mile and the -3 hit from base rating for my fiberpath in speed with winds up to 15 knots or so. Above that, all of us are down to smaller sails. Hope this helps. Marty |
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Post by reverie on Oct 7, 2009 0:38:57 GMT
It sure does, Marty. The pictures are very helpful.
In my books, that was a major project on your boat - and I'm sure you're reaping the rewards. I'm not going to be quite that aggressive yet. But when I get a bit more serious about racing - look out.....
Thanks again for your help!
John
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Post by MartyB on Oct 7, 2009 1:27:38 GMT
John, While the tracks were a major project for you. That was VERY minor compared to what I have done to Amoretto. The whole interior vinyl/foam backed liner was shot, redid the head www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/headliningheads.html There is the link to the aft cabin, the head redo link is at the bottom. Replaced all the cushions, revarnished the interior, Replace the main sheet system, both traveller carr and 4-1 with a 4-1 and 4-1 micro adjust. Not sure how many hours I have into her. Here is a pic of interior now  Any way, it may pay off, rumour has it, March/April issue of GOB, we should be one of the review boats. Hopefully I do not jinx myself saying this......... Marty |
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Post by reverie on Oct 8, 2009 1:29:14 GMT
Holy smokes, Marty!
I'm guessing you don't have a day job that's getting in the way. I can't imagine the hours that you've put into it. Hopefully you're spending a bit of time on the water too.
Perhaps some day....
In the meantime, back to work, so I can pay for some sails....
Cheers,
John
PS..Cute dog..
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Post by MartyB on Oct 8, 2009 20:30:06 GMT
John
I do have a day job, ie in construction, right now that is REALLY slow! I'm at about 30% of normal $$$ coming in etc. not fun!
If I had to guess on hrs, probably 500'ish for everything. Most of that into the interior. We luv our boat. If I could afford one, I'd have the SF version of your SO35. That would be the cats meow for my useage.
Winston was about 5 months in July when that pic was taken. Not quite full grown, he is now.
Marty
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