Savvy Navvy and Navionics

[Charlie-Bravo]

Having played with navionics now for about 5 years, and enjoyed it, whilst also keeping paper chart work going , and log entries to avoid a catastrophe in the event of total electronic gadget failure, this year I added Savvy Navvy to the phone and Ipad arsenal, as it does something that navionics doesn’t , and as venturing into tidal waters not yet travelled , thought to test it out.

The thing that Savvy does that Navionics doesn’t is mainly in the route plan area, and to be fair, route planning is the Savvy’s main objective, it isn’t trying to be a ‘ full on ‘ chart plotter, it takes into account both wind and tide, mixes it with your boats data … cruising speed, sailing speed , and speed at which you would normally turn on the engine, to produce a forecast of your trip, and, (this is the main bit for me) gives you a course to steer, along with how much sailing you are likely to do, and how much motoring, and how long your route is likely to take, it also shows you the likely difference to your trip of departing at different days and time of day, allowing you to ponder over the realities your general cruising plan, and question why Savvy has come up with such a different plan to the one you hastily put together on a napkin in the bar last night ! …. it’s a very good double check of your chart work, the only thing it doesn’t attempt to estimate is leeward drift.

The weather on Savvy is for any place you select, this works well, with wind overlay and on Savvy test, the weather proved as good as any ( mind you every app, tv , paper, radio forecast is to be taken with a small pinch of salt) neither app is better I found , Navionics wind is fine, although there is more choice of the data source for weather with Savvy.
Savvy weather info is downloaded and gives a good 4 days of data, and a few extra days but as with all forecasts the further ahead you look the less accurate it is going to be.

Savvy tidal data is for any point on the chart and so the tidal info provided saves interpolation between known standard ports, and seems accurate when double checked.
Navionics is fine, but you need to find the nearest port. Navionics is however better or perhaps easier for showing water depth , it changes on the chart showing depths at various times, and the sonar data from users is in my opinion an upgrade to the Admiralties soundings of the 1800’s (and some more recent) Savvy is based on LAT and stays that way …. a bit like a paper chart, do we need more? well sometimes we might.

Savvy charts look a little lacking, possibly less visually exciting when compared to Navionics sonar with shading, but it does tell you what you need to know, and looks uncluttered which can be good on smaller screens, for example it doesn’t give you light sequences for marks unless you turn to ‘night mode’ , but then you don’t see many lights during the day.
I would accept the argument that you can’t have too much detail, and just ignore the bits you don’t need, however the clearer view of the uncluttered chart I found easy on the eye.

Having chosen your Savvy route and time of departure, it is down to you to actually carry out the plan, much like the paper plot, Savvy does display a little boat on the chart much like Navionics, but the Savvy plan doesn’t change if you decide to go faster, slower, or just go off piste and ignore the carefully hatched plan you made earlier, and should you arrive at your next waypoint very early or late the course to steer will not be updated, a plan is the plan, although if you have gone completely off the original plan you can quickly hatch a new plan to follow from where ever you have ended up , to go to where ever you need to be with a few screen taps.
If you stick to the plan it works very well.
Navionics takes a different approach, you make your plan, it shows you a route, and if you go a bit starboard you just steer yourself port back to the line on the screen, and the app tells you that your arrival time has changed …. in real time, this can be a continuously evolving arrival time of course, and should you end up facing into a strong tidal flow the extra hours required for your trip will be displayed , but will still vary as it has no idea what tomfoolery you are likely to come up with next, ….. not a real criticism, just something you get used to, and is just a difference in approach of the two systems.

Auto routing of the two systems , I have to say that for me Savvy wins hands down, Navionics seems to like a direct route, will steer you through horrendous over falls, against huge tidal races, and despite knowing what the wind is predicted to do, and tidal flows, doesn’t adjust its route times or direction, just goes on your predicted speed over ground it would seem.
Savvy isn’t perfect, but it does recognise that sometimes a wiggly route can be more productive , including speed gained by not trying to sail at a poor wind angle, it also shows what a small change to your plan in the early parts will have on the whole trip.
Savvy did struggle a little on occasions in sounds, as in between islands close to headlands, although these are of course notorious for odd tidal flows, eddies and races which no algorithm will ever fully get to grips with, local knowledge and pilotage information must be regarded, but on the whole it did a better job than I do with my pencil.

AIS overlay on charts is not as of yet available on Savvy, but is on Navionics, this put me off Savvy for a year, but in reality I have AIS on the plotter, phones and ipads so having one gadget not showing the AIS data didn’t worry me in the slightest, they plan to add it at some point (don’t hold your breath though).

In the end they are both useful tools, and with good knowledge of their limitations can be a great help to passage planning. I like the fact that digital charts are much more up to date than my feeble attempts at modifying and updating my humble paper charts …. but rocks don’t move too much in my area, and although both systems cost quite a bit, when you embark on a lengthy coastal trip the cost of every chart you are supposed to carry adds up as well. I like having a paper chart, but do sometimes skip buying the ones that I probably won’t need on the basis that the digital charts are available to me.

Savvy isn’t cheap for their full package, and buying the cheapest version would miss out on desired features like full tidal data and night mode, it is more than Navionics, but if venturing in tidal waters with limited prior knowledge of an area, I would buy it again.

Hope this little ramble interests.

CB

[Chris Meyer]

Oct 21, 2022 10:47:49 GMT Charlie-Bravo said:

Having played with navionics now for about 5 years, and enjoyed it, whilst also keeping paper chart work going , and log entries to avoid a catastrophe in the event of total electronic gadget failure, this year I added Savvy Navvy to the phone and Ipad arsenal, as it does something that navionics doesn’t , and as venturing into tidal waters not yet travelled , thought to test it out.

The thing that Savvy does that Navionics doesn’t is mainly in the route plan area, and to be fair, route planning is the Savvy’s main objective, it isn’t trying to be a ‘ full on ‘ chart plotter, it takes into account both wind and tide, mixes it with your boats data … cruising speed, sailing speed , and speed at which you would normally turn on the engine, to produce a forecast of your trip, and, (this is the main bit for me) gives you a course to steer, along with how much sailing you are likely to do, and how much motoring, and how long your route is likely to take, it also shows you the likely difference to your trip of departing at different days and time of day, allowing you to ponder over the realities your general cruising plan, and question why Savvy has come up with such a different plan to the one you hastily put together on a napkin in the bar last night ! …. it’s a very good double check of your chart work, the only thing it doesn’t attempt to estimate is leeward drift.

The weather on Savvy is for any place you select, this works well, with wind overlay and on Savvy test, the weather proved as good as any ( mind you every app, tv , paper, radio forecast is to be taken with a small pinch of salt) neither app is better I found , Navionics wind is fine, although there is more choice of the data source for weather with Savvy.
Savvy weather info is downloaded and gives a good 4 days of data, and a few extra days but as with all forecasts the further ahead you look the less accurate it is going to be.

Savvy tidal data is for any point on the chart and so the tidal info provided saves interpolation between known standard ports, and seems accurate when double checked.
Navionics is fine, but you need to find the nearest port. Navionics is however better or perhaps easier for showing water depth , it changes on the chart showing depths at various times, and the sonar data from users is in my opinion an upgrade to the Admiralties soundings of the 1800’s (and some more recent) Savvy is based on LAT and stays that way …. a bit like a paper chart, do we need more? well sometimes we might.

Savvy charts look a little lacking, possibly less visually exciting when compared to Navionics sonar with shading, but it does tell you what you need to know, and looks uncluttered which can be good on smaller screens, for example it doesn’t give you light sequences for marks unless you turn to ‘night mode’ , but then you don’t see many lights during the day.
I would accept the argument that you can’t have too much detail, and just ignore the bits you don’t need, however the clearer view of the uncluttered chart I found easy on the eye.

Having chosen your Savvy route and time of departure, it is down to you to actually carry out the plan, much like the paper plot, Savvy does display a little boat on the chart much like Navionics, but the Savvy plan doesn’t change if you decide to go faster, slower, or just go off piste and ignore the carefully hatched plan you made earlier, and should you arrive at your next waypoint very early or late the course to steer will not be updated, a plan is the plan, although if you have gone completely off the original plan you can quickly hatch a new plan to follow from where ever you have ended up , to go to where ever you need to be with a few screen taps.
If you stick to the plan it works very well.
Navionics takes a different approach, you make your plan, it shows you a route, and if you go a bit starboard you just steer yourself port back to the line on the screen, and the app tells you that your arrival time has changed …. in real time, this can be a continuously evolving arrival time of course, and should you end up facing into a strong tidal flow the extra hours required for your trip will be displayed , but will still vary as it has no idea what tomfoolery you are likely to come up with next, ….. not a real criticism, just something you get used to, and is just a difference in approach of the two systems.

Auto routing of the two systems , I have to say that for me Savvy wins hands down, Navionics seems to like a direct route, will steer you through horrendous over falls, against huge tidal races, and despite knowing what the wind is predicted to do, and tidal flows, doesn’t adjust its route times or direction, just goes on your predicted speed over ground it would seem.
Savvy isn’t perfect, but it does recognise that sometimes a wiggly route can be more productive , including speed gained by not trying to sail at a poor wind angle, it also shows what a small change to your plan in the early parts will have on the whole trip.
Savvy did struggle a little on occasions in sounds, as in between islands close to headlands, although these are of course notorious for odd tidal flows, eddies and races which no algorithm will ever fully get to grips with, local knowledge and pilotage information must be regarded, but on the whole it did a better job than I do with my pencil.

AIS overlay on charts is not as of yet available on Savvy, but is on Navionics, this put me off Savvy for a year, but in reality I have AIS on the plotter, phones and ipads so having one gadget not showing the AIS data didn’t worry me in the slightest, they plan to add it at some point (don’t hold your breath though).

In the end they are both useful tools, and with good knowledge of their limitations can be a great help to passage planning. I like the fact that digital charts are much more up to date than my feeble attempts at modifying and updating my humble paper charts …. but rocks don’t move too much in my area, and although both systems cost quite a bit, when you embark on a lengthy coastal trip the cost of every chart you are supposed to carry adds up as well. I like having a paper chart, but do sometimes skip buying the ones that I probably won’t need on the basis that the digital charts are available to me.

Savvy isn’t cheap for their full package, and buying the cheapest version would miss out on desired features like full tidal data and night mode, it is more than Navionics, but if venturing in tidal waters with limited prior knowledge of an area, I would buy it again.

Hope this little ramble interests.

CB

CB
Good summary.
I am very happy with Navionics especially the autoroute feature.  
We went this year to the North Channel of Ontario and I totally relied on electronic navigation to guide us thru rocks and other shallow spots.  We don't worry about tidal changes!
Chris

[shenandoah]

This is interesting. I use Navionics but I do the weather / current routing you describe in PredictWind. I like PredictWind because it uses multiple weather and current models and you can see them all. 

One could pick a course and then export it to Navionics and I have done that, but I usually just take it as input into charting my course myself. 

Have you ever used PredictWind, if so how does it compare to Savvy? 


Warm regards,

Chuck

[Charlie-Bravo]

I haven’t tried PredictWind, guess it would take quite a while to test all these apps, I’ll have a little read up on it.
CB

[Outlaw AF]

Old thread I've come across, but very useful and helpful description. I have been using Savvy Navvy as an additional tool (along side Navionics and also I use Predict Wind) and completely agree with the points on its advantages and shortcomings.



I wondered if you had attempted to use the export function at all. It would be useful if one could easily export a route to ones chart plotter. There is a export function and this emails a GPX file to the account holders email address. From there I'd like to know how to import the GPX file route to the Raymarine Axion chart plotter. It is possible on the Navionics app to export from iphone or ipad to the chart plotter, video here . Has any one else tried to export savvy navvy files and had any success?

Oct 21, 2022 10:47:49 GMT Charlie-Bravo said:

Having played with navionics now for about 5 years, and enjoyed it, whilst also keeping paper chart work going , and log entries to avoid a catastrophe in the event of total electronic gadget failure, this year I added Savvy Navvy to the phone and Ipad arsenal, as it does something that navionics doesn’t , and as venturing into tidal waters not yet travelled , thought to test it out.

The thing that Savvy does that Navionics doesn’t is mainly in the route plan area, and to be fair, route planning is the Savvy’s main objective, it isn’t trying to be a ‘ full on ‘ chart plotter, it takes into account both wind and tide, mixes it with your boats data … cruising speed, sailing speed , and speed at which you would normally turn on the engine, to produce a forecast of your trip, and, (this is the main bit for me) gives you a course to steer, along with how much sailing you are likely to do, and how much motoring, and how long your route is likely to take, it also shows you the likely difference to your trip of departing at different days and time of day, allowing you to ponder over the realities your general cruising plan, and question why Savvy has come up with such a different plan to the one you hastily put together on a napkin in the bar last night ! …. it’s a very good double check of your chart work, the only thing it doesn’t attempt to estimate is leeward drift.

The weather on Savvy is for any place you select, this works well, with wind overlay and on Savvy test, the weather proved as good as any ( mind you every app, tv , paper, radio forecast is to be taken with a small pinch of salt) neither app is better I found , Navionics wind is fine, although there is more choice of the data source for weather with Savvy.
Savvy weather info is downloaded and gives a good 4 days of data, and a few extra days but as with all forecasts the further ahead you look the less accurate it is going to be.

Savvy tidal data is for any point on the chart and so the tidal info provided saves interpolation between known standard ports, and seems accurate when double checked.
Navionics is fine, but you need to find the nearest port. Navionics is however better or perhaps easier for showing water depth , it changes on the chart showing depths at various times, and the sonar data from users is in my opinion an upgrade to the Admiralties soundings of the 1800’s (and some more recent) Savvy is based on LAT and stays that way …. a bit like a paper chart, do we need more? well sometimes we might.

Savvy charts look a little lacking, possibly less visually exciting when compared to Navionics sonar with shading, but it does tell you what you need to know, and looks uncluttered which can be good on smaller screens, for example it doesn’t give you light sequences for marks unless you turn to ‘night mode’ , but then you don’t see many lights during the day.
I would accept the argument that you can’t have too much detail, and just ignore the bits you don’t need, however the clearer view of the uncluttered chart I found easy on the eye.

Having chosen your Savvy route and time of departure, it is down to you to actually carry out the plan, much like the paper plot, Savvy does display a little boat on the chart much like Navionics, but the Savvy plan doesn’t change if you decide to go faster, slower, or just go off piste and ignore the carefully hatched plan you made earlier, and should you arrive at your next waypoint very early or late the course to steer will not be updated, a plan is the plan, although if you have gone completely off the original plan you can quickly hatch a new plan to follow from where ever you have ended up , to go to where ever you need to be with a few screen taps.
If you stick to the plan it works very well.
Navionics takes a different approach, you make your plan, it shows you a route, and if you go a bit starboard you just steer yourself port back to the line on the screen, and the app tells you that your arrival time has changed …. in real time, this can be a continuously evolving arrival time of course, and should you end up facing into a strong tidal flow the extra hours required for your trip will be displayed , but will still vary as it has no idea what tomfoolery you are likely to come up with next, ….. not a real criticism, just something you get used to, and is just a difference in approach of the two systems.

Auto routing of the two systems , I have to say that for me Savvy wins hands down, Navionics seems to like a direct route, will steer you through horrendous over falls, against huge tidal races, and despite knowing what the wind is predicted to do, and tidal flows, doesn’t adjust its route times or direction, just goes on your predicted speed over ground it would seem.
Savvy isn’t perfect, but it does recognise that sometimes a wiggly route can be more productive , including speed gained by not trying to sail at a poor wind angle, it also shows what a small change to your plan in the early parts will have on the whole trip.
Savvy did struggle a little on occasions in sounds, as in between islands close to headlands, although these are of course notorious for odd tidal flows, eddies and races which no algorithm will ever fully get to grips with, local knowledge and pilotage information must be regarded, but on the whole it did a better job than I do with my pencil.

AIS overlay on charts is not as of yet available on Savvy, but is on Navionics, this put me off Savvy for a year, but in reality I have AIS on the plotter, phones and ipads so having one gadget not showing the AIS data didn’t worry me in the slightest, they plan to add it at some point (don’t hold your breath though).

In the end they are both useful tools, and with good knowledge of their limitations can be a great help to passage planning. I like the fact that digital charts are much more up to date than my feeble attempts at modifying and updating my humble paper charts …. but rocks don’t move too much in my area, and although both systems cost quite a bit, when you embark on a lengthy coastal trip the cost of every chart you are supposed to carry adds up as well. I like having a paper chart, but do sometimes skip buying the ones that I probably won’t need on the basis that the digital charts are available to me.

Savvy isn’t cheap for their full package, and buying the cheapest version would miss out on desired features like full tidal data and night mode, it is more than Navionics, but if venturing in tidal waters with limited prior knowledge of an area, I would buy it again.

Hope this little ramble interests.

CB

[Trevor]

Great summary CB,

Wow, I am feeling like I need to lift my game when it comes to using the modern facilties. I use Navionics on a Rayamrine plotter. On a couple of occasions when a mistake would be extremely unfortunate, I have asked my wife to track us using iSailor on the phone but I am guessing that little phone app is fairly basic compared to the functions this thread has previously described. When the stakes are high it is just sometimes reassuring that two systems agree with the location of the yacht.

Anyway thanks for the very analytical summary of these systems.

Trevor

[shenandoah]

I have used the export function from Predict wind. I use an iPad at the nav desk in addition to the Raymarine plotter at the helm. It is easy to download the file from predict wind to the iPad and then you link the iPad navionics to the Raymarine and the route will be on your plotter. It is pretty simple.