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Post by rxc on Nov 3, 2021 19:16:23 GMT
I am looking for advice about replacing my frigoboat refrigerator. It appears to have sprung a leak some time in the last 6 months, while just sitting, unused, behind my house. The repairman considers it to be unrepairable, because the system is now "compromised/contaminated" with air, and since it is 18 year old, it is time to give it up. I have already ordered a W35 water cooled unit, because the compressor for it may become available in the next 4-6 weeks, as opposed to3-4 months for the air-cooled unit. I am starting to remove the old system and try to install everything except the compressor before it arrives. Evidently COVID has had a serious impact on the production of the compressors in Italy and their distribution. I have hit one snag, though. I pulled out the stove/cooker to have better access to the fridge locker underneath, and cannot figure out how to remove the shelf between the stove and the fridge. I removed all the screws I could find, on the edge, and the shelf now rattles a bit, but I cannot figure out how to get the shelf out. Unless I remove this shelf, it will be very painful to replace the compressor... Any thoughts from anyone who has done anything like this?  |
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Post by zaphod on Nov 4, 2021 17:58:10 GMT
I'm not sure I agree with your "repair man". The first step is to find the leak and repair it. Then it is a question of installing a filter-drier on the system, pulling a vacuum, and recharging the system.
Just because a system has a leak doesn't mean you have to throw it away and buy a new one!
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Post by rxc on Nov 5, 2021 14:15:52 GMT
I can see the leak. There is a small drip of lubricating oil from the joint of the capillary tube to the larger tube, right at the bottom of the "bulb" on the evaporator plate. I have asked a number of possible repair places about this. They all, without exception, say that given the age of the unit (at least 18 years) and the location of the leak, it would be wiser to not spend any money on trying a repair, which would be a substantial fraction of the cost of a new unit.
And, in any case, I still have to remove the shelf to be able to get to the connections to the evaporator plate, because it would have to come out for a repair.
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Post by Charlie-Bravo on Nov 5, 2021 15:25:53 GMT
Looking at your photo, the shelf may have further fixings under the bottom edge of the cooker support panel to the right of the picture, and even if no fixings lurk there, removal of the panel looks like it would ease shelf removal. Having had fridge troubles on an earlier boat, I went with an isotherm compressor with evaporator plate kit off ebay , about half the price of frigoboat and seems to have the same make and model of compressor, my kit worked very well, easy to fit, quiet, and drew very little power, about 3 amp start up then dropping to 1.5 - 2 amps , my old unit (1986) pulled 7 amps! The kits are all pre charged and are connected up with no loss quick connectors. With a choice of evaporator, flat plate or a rounded oblong item which doubles as a great ice cube maker. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264305508425?hash=item3d89d60049:g:YfMAAOSwYLZbbaG0All of no help to you I know, as you have already ordered, but just thought to throw it in to a fridge based post for others. Good luck with the shelf CB |
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Post by rxc on Nov 5, 2021 16:03:58 GMT
Thanks for the experience about the Isotherm. I considered them seriously, but could only find one, at Defender, and I don't think it would have been the right size for my boat. I will look again under the shelf. I wonder if I need to take out all the screws on the sides that hold the side panels. Maybe they keep the entire structure fixed to the fridge and the aft bulkhead. Unfortunately, they also appear to be glued(!) to the deck and the laminate countertop segments. I really don't want to have to remove the microwave.
I may have to bite the bullet and cut a large hole with a jig saw, and then figure out how to re-attach it when I am done.
Oh, and I think that this might be a good opportunity to replace the gas hose, which means dissasembling a LOT of other stuff back to the stern...
More to come.
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Post by Charlie-Bravo on Nov 5, 2021 21:16:02 GMT
Re the gas pipe, boats I have tinkered with, including my SO 35 have a copper gas pipe through the boat, often plastic coated, and this terminates in rubbery flex hose at either end via screwed fittings , one for bottles one for cooker, the latter often braided in stainless which I don't like as you can't see it's condition ..... but is supposed to protect from chafe with the gimbled cooker swinging about and possibly from oven heat as well, but I haven't seen a melted unbraided one .. yet, and the change from copper to flex is often found either at the gas valve located near the cooker , near the fridge mech on mine, but in the nearest aft cabin on others.
If you find stiff copper pipe is installed it should be good for 20 + years and just the rubbery flex pipe at either end could be replaced which might save on ripping the aft end apart .....( for a few years). but if yours is flexible pipe all the way it is probably a good time to replace as you say.
Whilst pulling things apart, one mod I have done that really is good, is to install a solenoid valve at the bottle with an illuminated switch in the galley, the gas bottle on the 35 is a real pain to access, removing helm seat, opening starboard locker, getting one foot into the starboard locker for balance then opening the gas locker . The switch in the galley can switch off the gas at the bottle, and being illuminated reminds me to turn it off after cooking, but we do disconnect the bottles when leaving the boat for days though.
Even if the bottles are easily accessible on a future boat I would still install the same system.
Just thought to throw that in, in case you get some spare time whilst the boat is in pieces and don't know what to do with yourself.
As the shelf now rattles you can't be far off making it come out, how about examining the rattle ... one bit probably doesn't , and there will be the hidden fixing, and being as installing the original unit was more than likely fitted prior to being entrapped by the shelf, it should be possible to extract it (with the exception of French boat yard humour of course !)
Happy tinkering
CB
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Post by andreshs1 on Nov 8, 2021 14:34:31 GMT
I'm not sure I agree with your "repair man". The first step is to find the leak and repair it. Then it is a question of installing a filter-drier on the system, pulling a vacuum, and recharging the system. Just because a system has a leak doesn't mean you have to throw it away and buy a new one! My fridge also just decided to give up... I already changed the cooling plate once because only half of it was freezing while the bottom half would only get cold and the mighty engineer told me hat the cause was a blockage on the plate and that could not be repaired...now, 2 years after replacing the plate, the behavior repeats....  anyone knows how to flush the cooling plate to remove any debris that might be in there? do you have the model of the filter we should fit? Cheers |
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Post by rxc on Nov 10, 2021 20:06:54 GMT
Charlie Bravo,
Ahhh you don't have an American-registered vessel. The gas line conflict is the primary example I give people about differing safety standards in different countries.
In the US, it is FORBIDDEN to use hard gas piping for propane. We MUST use flexible hose, because the USCG has decided that hard pipe flexes and hardens and eventually breaks. Very similar to the rationale used to justify stranded wiring in boats instead of solid wire.
Outside the US, it is FORBIDDEN to use flexible hose. You MUST use hard pipe because the relevant authorities have decided that it is less susceptible to chafe and degradation as the rubber ages. If I ever register the boat in the EU, I will have to change to hard pipe.
I just traced out my hose, and it runs inside a conduit from the cooker back to the gas tub that holds the bottles. I will have to cut the tub loose from the deck to get at the hose and replace it. Yet another thing to take apart for this simple project.
I just decided to cut the hole in the shelf. That was relatively easy, and I will just epoxy it back in place. It is very much out-of-sight, so the aesthetics of the job will not be an issue. It may have been installed with the shelf in place. The wiring and the piping are long enough to just coil it up and shove the compressor back into the space. But I would not have known that without cutting the shelf open. There is no indication that the shelf is designed to come out.
Oh, and I decided to install another electrical outlet inside the box where the current electrical outlet is located for the microwave. I once thought i would install another outlet on the side of the box, but I think it will be easier to install another outlet inside, and drill a smaller hole in the box so that the cord for the microwave can be led into the box and plugged in there. Out of sight completely.
The pump and strainer were not hard to install, and I figured out how to install another branch on the thru-hull for the genset for the fridge pump. The discharge is more of a problem. I want to run the discharge back to the sink drain in the aft head, and was going to install a bronze tee on the inboard side of the valve, but the existing nipple does not want to come off. So, I will just install a plastic tee high up in the drain line and lead the fridge drain there. Next time the boat is hauled, I will replace the thruhull, the valve, and re-install the fridge drain line.
What a project! Photos to come.
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Post by Charlie-Bravo on Nov 11, 2021 8:18:53 GMT
US v EU ..... both are correct in their own way, and of course both will not last forever, actual longevity of each will probably depend on the quality of the installation.
Shame you need so much boat surgery to replace a 'consumable ' item.
CB
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Post by zaphod on Nov 11, 2021 18:17:51 GMT
I'm not sure I agree with your "repair man". The first step is to find the leak and repair it. Then it is a question of installing a filter-drier on the system, pulling a vacuum, and recharging the system. Just because a system has a leak doesn't mean you have to throw it away and buy a new one! My fridge also just decided to give up... I already changed the cooling plate once because only half of it was freezing while the bottom half would only get cold and the mighty engineer told me hat the cause was a blockage on the plate and that could not be repaired...now, 2 years after replacing the plate, the behavior repeats.... anyone knows how to flush the cooling plate to remove any debris that might be in there? do you have the model of the filter we should fit? Cheers Evaporator plates don't get plugged or accumulate debris. The system is hermetically sealed. If the evaporator plate is partially frosting it is usually an indication that the system is low on refrigerant. The capillary tube feeding the refrigerant can get blocked, but that usually manifests as no refrigerating effect at all. Filter/driers used in those systems are very generic. There is no specific make or model that must be used. Their purpose is to catch any particles that may have been introduced when the system was built, and they have a desiccant block inside them to trap any moisture. They don't typically need to be replaced unless the system has been open to atmosphere. There are specialized tools and skills needed to properly service a refrigeration system. Unfortunately a lot of yard mechanics don't have either, so the simplest solution is to replace the system and call it done. To be fair, the labour cost to properly repair a system can approach replacement cost of the unit very quickly if the technician is charging the going rate for refrigeration techs. That said, refrigerant leaks can sometimes be fixed quite quickly. A common culprit is the quick connectors where the evaporator lines connect to the condensing unit. Anyone with a set of gauges can top up the refrigerant charge, but it has to be done very carefully as it is really easy to overcharge the system. They use a very small amount of refrigerant, and will not work efficiently without the correct amount. |
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Post by andreshs1 on Nov 12, 2021 1:16:18 GMT
Hi Zaphod
thanks for the advise, I will call the 'engineer' again. Sadly in HK the market is small, thus very difficult to get quality yards
cheers
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Post by weagle on Feb 5, 2022 23:41:08 GMT
Hi Zaphod thanks for the advise, I will call the 'engineer' again. Sadly in HK the market is small, thus very difficult to get quality yards cheers |
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Post by weagle on Feb 5, 2022 23:41:26 GMT
Hi Zaphod thanks for the advise, I will call the 'engineer' again. Sadly in HK the market is small, thus very difficult to get quality yards cheers |
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Post by weagle on Feb 5, 2022 23:53:28 GMT
I had a short blow up the controller for the fridgoboat. It was the "mod master 2". I replaced it with the Merlin. Hooked everything up and the system kicked on. The refridgerent lines get cool the evaporator gurgles. Then it stops cooling. Except the air fan continues to run. I went looking for the thermostat. Never needed to look for it before. I don't see anything that looks close to one. There is a temperature sensor. The back of the fridge is completely inaccessible. I probably have a compressor issue,but it is strange that there is no thermostat. I jumped the C and T on the control board so I know the wires go somewhere and the circuit is closed. Might you have any thoughts? Thanks in advance. |
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Post by zaphod on Feb 6, 2022 0:19:48 GMT
I had a short blow up the controller for the fridgoboat. It was the "mod master 2". I replaced it with the Merlin. Hooked everything up and the system kicked on. The refridgerent lines get cool the evaporator gurgles. Then it stops cooling. Except the air fan continues to run. I went looking for the thermostat. Never needed to look for it before. I don't see anything that looks close to one. There is a temperature sensor. The back of the fridge is completely inaccessible. I probably have a compressor issue,but it is strange that there is no thermostat. I jumped the C and T on the control board so I know the wires go somewhere and the circuit is closed. Might you have any thoughts? Thanks in advance. I haven't used the Merlin controller myself, but it has a red diagnostic led. Is it flashing a code? If the fan keeps running then it likely is not a thermostat issue since the fan normally cycles off when the thermostat opens. |
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Post by weagle on Feb 7, 2022 6:12:59 GMT
I had a short blow up the controller for the fridgoboat. It was the "mod master 2". I replaced it with the Merlin. Hooked everything up and the system kicked on. The refridgerent lines get cool the evaporator gurgles. Then it stops cooling. Except the air fan continues to run. I went looking for the thermostat. Never needed to look for it before. I don't see anything that looks close to one. There is a temperature sensor. The back of the fridge is completely inaccessible. I probably have a compressor issue,but it is strange that there is no thermostat. I jumped the C and T on the control board so I know the wires go somewhere and the circuit is closed. Might you have any thoughts? Thanks in advance. I haven't used the Merlin controller myself, but it has a red diagnostic led. Is it flashing a code? If the fan keeps running then it likely is not a thermostat issue since the fan normally cycles off when the thermostat opens. It is flashing green. I will probably have to go with the old advice and throw it all away. The isotherm recommendation from above looks promising. Thanks for checking in. |
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