Downwind sails for Atlantic crossing on 42DS

[airabvi]

Preparing for ARC and considering what (if any) extra sail to buy.  

Currently have Asym in sock in great condition which we use in under 15kts, and standard roller furling main and jib.  

Due to the swept back spreaders we can't get great angle downwind with main and we generally put it away or keep it over-sheeted rather than have it sit on spreaders and chafe through in a few days.  

So do we fork out for a Code zero on furler which we can supplement the jib with for wing-on-wing and probably douse at night, or am I over estimating the angle on which we are going to be sailing for the majority of the time and our current set-up is good?  

I know there is a plethora of information out there - but every boat is different so advice from other DS sailers would be really helpful!  

[JEF]

SO 440

As I intend to join the ARC Portugal 2020 we have been asking our self similar questions ... After much discussion with Elvstrom Sails UK we eventually purchased the Elvstrom Blue Water Runner.

It gives us three options in one sail and is very easily managed with shorthanded crew... we have test sailed on two occasions to date with in mast main rolled away. Once set very pleased to date with the overall down wind performance and would recommend you look into this option from Elvstrom. Reference test reports are available and Youtube vids also show it in action.

Hope you find this useful

[sailbleu]

4 years ago I had to replace the in-mast main sail , sooner or later this sail is deformed in such a way that furling it becomes an issue .
A year later I had a new Genoa made .
I stored both old sails in the boat ( mixed feelings because of the extra weight ) as emergency spares , but mainly as wear-down-Atlantic-crossing-sails . Next year I will finally get the dust off and probably get rid of them when we arrive on the other side of the pond . The trading winds East >>> West allow the use of sails that are out of shape .

Why not buy cheap old sails for the back-wind trip instead of spending good money on a new sail for a heavy duty trip ?

Regards

[jy51]

Sept 27, 2019 15:04:00 GMT airabvi said:

Preparing for ARC and considering what (if any) extra sail to buy.  

Currently have Asym in sock in great condition which we use in under 15kts, and standard roller furling main and jib.  

Due to the swept back spreaders we can't get great angle downwind with main and we generally put it away or keep it over-sheeted rather than have it sit on spreaders and chafe through in a few days.  

So do we fork out for a Code zero on furler which we can supplement the jib with for wing-on-wing and probably douse at night, or am I over estimating the angle on which we are going to be sailing for the majority of the time and our current set-up is good?  

I know there is a plethora of information out there - but every boat is different so advice from other DS sailers would be really helpful!  

Firstly you have to consider that sailing down the trades usually means force 5/6 with gusts.  To keep things safe at night, it is prudent to reduce sail.  Large light wind sails like the code 0 are designed for exactly that, light winds, dropping them in a squall can get very lively. Also if the winds are light, a rolling boat can cause havoc with large coloured sails.  

I think your first consideration is for a down wind configuration that is simple and chafe free, which is easy and quick to reduce when needed. There is no definitive sail configuration, it depends on the boat, every past ARC sailor will have a different story to tell.  Sailing directly down wind in a monohull can be very difficult, I have never taken part in the ARC but would have thought that sailing off the wind with your standard sail plan would be a good compromise. 

[johannes]

Latest issue of Yachting World has an article on this subject. They advise against sailing other other angles than the direct course:

Bones Black hits the nail on the head when he advises (for most boat types) to discount the idea of gybing the angles downwind. “The deeper you sail downwind the quicker you will arrive. Reaching back and forth across the Atlantic can put a huge number of miles onto your trip and not get you there any sooner,” he says.

www.yachtingworld.com/sailing-across-atlantic/bluewater-tips-first-crossing-123215

[jy51]

Oct 1, 2019 7:43:44 GMT johannes said:

Latest issue of Yachting World has an article on this subject. They advise against sailing other other angles than the direct course:

Bones Black hits the nail on the head when he advises (for most boat types) to discount the idea of gybing the angles downwind. “The deeper you sail downwind the quicker you will arrive. Reaching back and forth across the Atlantic can put a huge number of miles onto your trip and not get you there any sooner,” he says.

www.yachtingworld.com/sailing-across-atlantic/bluewater-tips-first-crossing-123215

I think you have to be very careful in interpreting what they are saying here, they are suggesting 160 to 180 degrees off the wind as most boats are very uncomfortable and difficult to control in trade wind conditions directly with the wind 180 degrees on the stern.

Nobody has suggested reaching, using a normal sail plan 150 to 160 degrees is doable.  The comment I originally made was simply that you don’t need a special sail to cross the Atlantic.

[johannes]

I agree, my post was mostly to provide the link to the article.

[jy51]

Oct 2, 2019 8:28:14 GMT johannes said:

I agree, my post was mostly to provide the link to the article.

I should have added, thank you Johannes, it was an interesting article, always interesting in other's opinions and experiences.  

[so36idavid]

I've never done an ARC but I have sailed thousands of miles downwind on some pretty long passages. In my experience there's no right answer to this, it depends on the boat and the conditions. For a heavily laden cruising boat, sailed shorthanded it's probably not faster to gybe the angles. For a lighter boat with a hardworking crew it almost always is. What nobody talks about in these articles is the sea state. If you're running DDW in following seas then you're going to be rolling. The steeper the seas the bigger the roll. This can be uncomfortable and wear on the crew. You'll get to your destination with a lot of bruises. Often the answer is to heat it up 20 or 30 degrees so that the sails fill and stabilize the roll. There's usually one gybe that's better than the other because the seas don't 100% line up with the breeze. It may not be faster but your wife will still talk to you when you get there. 

On our boat we have a cruising chute (with a dousing sock) as well as a spinnaker pole that we use to pole out the jib. The exact sail plan depends on the breeze and sea state. Sometimes we go everything from wing-on-wing-on-wing with the cruising chute+jib+main. As the wind builds we might do any of: douse the chute, reef the main, roll up the jib, drop the main and roll out some jib or, sail with only the cruising chute or two headsails. All of these have their time and place.


I've done a lot of racing in my life and I know how to get the most out of my boat. I'm one of those guys who likes to tinker with the sails, even on passages. If you're more of the "throw up some sails and go read a book" sailors then a simple sail plan is probably for you. I'll probably beat you in by tens of minutes ! But even for you guys I wouldn't leave on a long, downwind passage without some kind of lightweight sail plan. Whatever you get, practice with it before you go because if you're not comfortable with it you're not going to use it and that could add days to your passage. 

[panoramix]

Are you racing, or is it about comfort? That makes a big difference for your sail plan.

Mine was about comfort when crossing the ocean from the Canaries to Barbados. My wife and i experimented a lot and ended up with just the mainsail.
Because of the rolling you can't prevent the genoa from collapsing and filling again, thereby generating loud bangs and big loads on the sheets.

We had a boombrake installed so an accidental gybe was no problem. Specially at night a big advantage.
At first we used a gybe preventer, but when the wind changes fast in direction you have a problem with the negative load on the main.

So in the end we sailed in 19 days across the pond with just the mainsail up 24/7. Good sleeping at night (with radar watch) and automatic gybing.

At the end we had a small hole in the mainsail where it touches the top spreader. Just put a small patch on it and it held up for the next few years. Also because you don't have to sail downwind so much.

[zzmeyer]

Lots of good advice here. I've sailed the 42ds extensively offshore. We generally flew a chute downwind. I am always surprised how much of the time the wind is light and will either need to motor or go real slow with white sails only. I never sail deeper than about 150-160. Not as comfortable, not as safe, and your VMG goes down. The 42ds is not as stable as some boats, but still fine, so finding "the groove" for comfort is important. The referenced article has some interesting discussion of watch standing. Offshore racing we did what we called "modified Swedish watch system" that staggered crew coming on watch. Was discussed in article. For long offshore passages I set a watch schedule that has crew on watch the same time each night. We group decide who has which one. Some people are night owls, some morning people. I find once adjusted the crew prefers this. Every three days I ask if anyone wants to change. Almost never does anyone want to. I think what the article did best is to point out there are different solutions to the problem. Those who head DDW with a rotating watch schedule are no less right than my biases.

[Caxton]

Any one do wing on wing with a preventer on the main? I have sailed DDW down the coast of California that way and it was very controlled and comfortable in winds 15 to 25 kts.  I have a whisker pole on the jib.

Caxton

[airabvi]

Thanks for all the great advice here - I think the decision we have come to is that the best set of sails for the trip are the ones already on the boat - cheapest too!  Taking into account that its not just the crossing - but what we are doing the other side off the crossing (we live in the BVI) where the wind is pretty solid and its probable we will not get a lot of use from a code zero as the wind is normally 15+ knots in the winter season, and so light in the summer we will probably be using the big asym.

The blue runner looks like a great sail, and will be a serious consideration for the next longer trip... 

Fingers crossed my husband is still talking to me at the end of this trip too  .

[Quiddle]

Maybe a bit late for the OP but I'm surprised nobody has suggested a twistle (twizzle) rig. Two headsails hoisted on a single halyard using the two foil grooves. Ideally each poled out but main boom (with mainsail stowed) can be rigged for one sail. No chaffing, sails reduced on a single furling line, relatively cheap if you can get hold of an old headsail as shape hardly matters downwind. I've played with concept on my 36i using my original genny as the 2nd head sail and it works.

www.simetric.co.uk/twizzle_rig/