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Post by markevans on Jan 11, 2018 20:29:24 GMT
Hello and thanks to you all for your posts, which I've been working my way through.
I’m looking to buy a 40 DS or 43 DS for a full-time liveaboard voyaging couple. At around 15 years old I'm hoping they still have enough life in them.
I have a few questions that I'd like your help with, but more importantly, I’d really welcome any feedback borne from your own experiences with these models.
1. Has the documented compression post base issue on the 43 DS also affect the 40 DS?
2. Are the original through hulls bronze but the seacocks are brass?
3. Where are the most common leaks?
4. Which wind vane steering systems have worked well for you?
5. LOA for the 40 DS is shown as 12.19m yet I’ve seen reports that the measured hull LOA is less than 12m. Is this true? This of course has significant cost implications where there is a 12m step in permits. How have others managed this issue?
6. What do you know now, that you wished you had known when you bought a 40 DS or 43 DS?
Thanks in anticipation. Hopefully, I’ll be able to reciprocate when I become an owner too. 😊
PS If you are thinking of selling your 40/43 DS , it's not too late to sell yours to me ;-)
PPS We'll be at the London Boat Show this Saturday if you would like to meet up.
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Post by mikebnz on Jan 11, 2018 21:16:56 GMT
Hi Mark,
I’ve got a DS43 and I’m very happy with it, just spent two weeks sailing with my two young kids, my wife and our cat and there was always plenty of room for all of us.
In terms of your questions:
Mast compression issue - can’t speak to if it impacts the 40 but my 2005 43 is fine, and it’s been across the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. So don’t assume it affects every 43, but do get it checked as part of the survey.
Through hull fittings - my boat is out of the water right now having new keel bolts and replacing all through hull fittings with plastic ones. The original ones had started to cease in the forward bathroom and were leaking. It’s not a big expense.
Leaks - mine leaks through the top of the cabin where the hatch slides forward, drips onto the couch just in front of the kitchen bench, and the starboard middle window leaks a bit. Neither is serious but I’ll re-seal them both to fix it.
I’m very happy with the 43, but I didn’t look at a 40 so I can’t comment on which is better.
Cheers
Mike
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Post by markevans on Jan 11, 2018 21:37:20 GMT
Thanks for your input Mike.
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Post by hoppy on Jan 12, 2018 2:41:56 GMT
The hull length of the SO40 and 40DS is just under 12m whilst the LOA is over 12.
Personally I think the SO40 is better looking than the DS's of the era and the twin wheel makes cockpit access great and allows me to have a 1m long table for entertaining. I've never really spent much time below deck entertaining so I don't see the value in the raised saloon or big windows and in summer (Greece & Aus) I always keep the curtains closed to keep the cabin cooler.
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 12, 2018 10:21:30 GMT
We are so happy & pleased with our 40DS , although sometimes I think we should of bought the 43DS . But definitely a DS !!!! Yet when I compare the setup of a 43DS with ours I must admit that if I would change now I would most likely regret it . First of all the compression post is smack next to the saloon table , I would guess very annoying . Second , the 43DS , as far as I know , doesn't come with a steering wheel in the front of the cockpit starboard side . And that Mark , that is the priceless distinction between the 2 models. Somewhere in the recent history on the board is a topic about someone who wants to change the position of the wheel to expand the cockpit table . Have a read . jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/6030/moving-aft-central-wheel-40dsWhat I would like to see different on our boat is the draft , we have a short keel and the benefits , they are present no doubt , do not compensate the disadvantages .So I would prefer a long keel . The two models are virtually similar , beside the 3 feet and the large bedroom in the 2 cabin version that is . Up to this day I'm not sure I would want to give up my open cockpit for 3 feet extra but alas also a steering wheel and instrument post blocking the swim platform passage . But then there is also the price range of both models to be taken into account. In short , if it's for 2 persons , go for the 2 cabin 40DS model and change the cockpit table so you can have a dance floor to entertain your wife ( or girlfriend) once and a while . Most women love to dance . This is how I changed my table , and although I say so myself pardon me , one of my best best modifications ever. My family and grand kids agree with that . jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2873/swingable-turnable-folding-cockpit-tableRegards |
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Post by MalcolmP on Jan 12, 2018 14:13:27 GMT
I don't know how, but this great project of yours slipped through the net a few years ago... and I never did a transfer to the Hints and Tips section... apologies, but as the weather remains cold and miserable, I will make amends in the near future and get it loaded up Did you ever fit the footrests? kind regards Malcolm |
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Post by MalcolmP on Jan 12, 2018 17:17:04 GMT
I don't know how, but this great project of yours slipped through the net a few years ago... and I never did a transfer to the Hints and Tips section... apologies, but as the weather remains cold and miserable, I will make amends in the near future and get it loaded up Did you ever fit the footrests? kind regards Malcolm Now online at: www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/SO40DScockpittable.html |
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Post by super g on Jan 12, 2018 18:08:59 GMT
I had a 40ds and it’s was a superb boat. Though not an issue for me the glues for the saloon windows will eventually fail and they will need rebedding. On mine I added external mesh which protected everything from uv but meant I could still see out.
Once I had fitted a vertically battened main and feathering prop she was pretty quick even in light airs.
Why did I change? I wanted a deeper draft and bigger sail area thought must admit the gains are marginal.
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Post by alenka on Jan 12, 2018 22:42:13 GMT
Hi Mark,
Five years in to owning our 2004 43DS and I cannot think of another boat I would go for (apart from a Discovery 55 which would cost another £400,000 more).
I looked at numerous boats before I bought the one I did. I came across one in immaculate condition but in desperate need of the compression post fixing. I actually agreed to buy the boat subject to it being fixed but the Italian broker was an idiot and though good negotiating was waving his arms around in the air and doing little else so I walked away.
The CP is not just a problem on the 43/40DS it affects other models and other manufacturers.
The fix is not difficult and costs around €3,500,
Signs to look for;
Concave appearance of deck at the base of the mast. Remove the two panels underneath (inside) and check for cracks.
Lift the cabin sole and look for cracks at the base of the compression post.
An early sign of problems is leaking from the forward windows so a quick and easy check is to hose down the area and check for drips inside. Many mistake these leaks for problems with the glue and have them reseated.
I was however led to believe that Jeanneau addressed this problem from 2004 onwards, but I was told this by a broker trying to sell a boat. I have heard some 42DS's have similarly been affected.
Be aware that there are differing levels of interior fit. The charter model goes for extra berths and in doing so loses a great amount of storage and finesse. If you cruise just two up and looking for comfort go for the owners version with the big centreline aft berth and the stowage bins either side. They swallow up everything from spare bedding, to clothes, shoes and even Air-Con units.
Our model has just one large guest bedroom (ensuite) up front. Sometimes I wish I had gone for the one with the extra bunk bed cabin as I sail with a mixture of male/female friends who don't know each other - well not that well!
Versions sold into USA nearly always had a nice front opening fridge and folding saloon table. Very smart and very expensive extras which are almost impossible to source and retrofit. These models are a bit rare to find in Europe.
I get our through hulls inspected every year and have only found a couple starting to go rose/pink - we change them at this point.
We have the 75hp turbo Yanmar and feathering prop which will push us along at 6kts burning around 2,7 LPH. I gather that the fixed pitch prop can use much more fuel. Personally, I find the engine a bit noisy above this speed so tend to under rev the engine for the sake of peace. However, you will find the hull quite quick and easy to move in lights airs (not what you might expect) so cruising under engine is not our thing if we can avoid it.
My pet hate is the exhaust which is close to the wheel and if you are running with the wind fumes can linger around the cockpit. Think it might be just me as no other crew member has ever mentioned it. Our previous boat had the exhaust under the water which I liked much better.
I would buy another 43DS tomorrow without hesitation. The woodwork is pre the 'ikea' look and more traditional. Build quality is very solid. If you want the more modern look then I would go for the 41DS which has a proper separate shower (just like the 43DS) and not the dreaded shower curtain, which it my view spoils the 42DS. But then it's all personal taste.
In my book it all adds to the feeling of a proper home rather than just camping afloat.
There are a few shabby looking models out there. Nearly all of which are ex-charter. With care and attention I think you will find an owners version that has many decades of life left in it. Yes we have the odd stress crack here and there but nothing that really upsets me and that is something I hate to see.
Good luck
Postscript: The compression post is not a problem and does not restrict getting around the table. Entry to the swim platform is offset to the starboard side so the instrument pod does not really get in the way. Obviously it is not open in the same way many modern boats are but I prefer the feeling off being more enclosed.
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Post by markevans on Jan 12, 2018 23:06:14 GMT
Thanks Super G and Sailbleu - very amusing too.
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Post by markevans on Jan 12, 2018 23:13:23 GMT
Alenka, thanks so much for the time and detail you included in your response. This sort of information just isn't available anywhere else. You've been really helpful.
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Post by alenka on Jan 13, 2018 13:23:26 GMT
Mark, This is what a failed compression post may look like at the base. This is normally hidden under the cabin sole but a handy inspection panel gives easy access. This is from the Italian boat I walked away from. Not because of the failure, which is an easy fix but due to a broker with unrealistic ideas.  www.23hq.com/Alenka43ds/photo/39710243/original |
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Post by alenka on Jan 13, 2018 13:29:25 GMT
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Post by alenka on Jan 13, 2018 22:24:29 GMT
5. LOA for the 40 DS is shown as 12.19m yet I’ve seen reports that the measured hull LOA is less than 12m. Is this true? This of course has significant cost implications where there is a 12m step in permits. How have others managed this issue?
If you are visiting Greece (with its proposed new cruising tax) being under 12m is a good thing.
I did once come across a 43DS with the graphics of a 40DS. The owner admitted that he had changed the spec on the SSR when he changed it into his name and adjusted the graphics accordingly. Claimed it had saved him a fortune in Marina fees because no one ever physically checks with a measure.
Naughty!
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Post by andreshs1 on Jan 14, 2018 16:11:01 GMT
hi
we got our 2002 43DS around 2 months ago, the 2 cabin version.
It is a great boat all around with tons of space. the only thing I would've liked was for the surveyor to have seen that the CP needed repairing so I could've lower my offer accordingly, yet we do not regret getting the boat. And anyway most boats will suffer at thr base of the compression post.
As Alenka mentioned the finishes are very nice, not the cheaply looking plywood you get today in most of the production boats.
as for the space, 3 ft is quite a lot of space in a boat.
Cheers
Andres
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 15, 2018 5:03:32 GMT
I don't know how, but this great project of yours slipped through the net a few years ago... and I never did a transfer to the Hints and Tips section... apologies, but as the weather remains cold and miserable, I will make amends in the near future and get it loaded up Did you ever fit the footrests?
kind regards Malcolm Now online at: www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/SO40DScockpittable.htmlHi Malcolm , yes and no , I actually made a rectangle frame in 60mm S/S square profile that can be bolted to the deck . Strangely enough we never felt the need for it , so it's 'somewhere' in one of the lockers . Regards |
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so43ds
New Member
Posts: 6 
Country: Italy
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Post by so43ds on Jan 15, 2018 8:35:27 GMT
I bought the boat SO43Ds 2002,5 years ago. I just wanted this boat. I saw 7 boats in Italy, France, Spain and Croatia. Only 3 did not have this problem compression post. I do not speak English well. I understood that the cost of the repair is € 3500. They are few. while doing this job you also have to change the shrouds. It's a beautiful boat, it sails very well and it's all inspection like the fuel and water tanks. this is very important. I changed all the valves with the new Randexs valve made in France. I know other boats in Italy that have problems hidden well. I discovered through local friends that they told me the story. but I'm talking about 5 years ago. mine has the problem with picture up in this post. I will have to repair as soon as possible.
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Post by chuckr on Jan 15, 2018 9:00:43 GMT
We got a new 40DS in 2003 - built 01 launched 03 - and it is our first and only boat. This year we start our 11th year of full time liveaboards. We simply love the boat and constantly tell Jeanneau it is the best and most solid boat they ever produced. At least in our opinion.
We have sailed her up and down the east coast of the USA 2 1/2 times, all the Bahamas twice, Miami to Mexico to Colombia across to Jamaica down to Trinidad up to Antigua across the Atlantic to Azores on a two handed crossing, into the Med and most of the Med. In 2016 we sailed the entire Black Sea (except Crimea) and were the first boat to do the entire circum nav of it in a long time. We are currently wintering over in Marmaris Turkey. As you can see we got a lot of miles in a variety of conditions.
First we are not racers but she is a very fast boat and if there were better sailors aboard I would imagine that she would be very competitive but we don't care.
Second we love the shoal draft and it has proven very useful in the Bahamas, San Blas, Rio Dulce and a few other places where the water is sometimes a bit skinny.
Third we have had no issues with the mast or compression posts.
Fourth we have had the same seacocks since launching but saying that we treat the exterior with some type of lubricant (what ever we can find) to keep them clean. I forgot one under the sink in the galley and it also is the drain for the watermaker and it came apart on our trip from Rhodes to Marmaris. Fortunately the break was above the valve and we closed it to get in and hauled out. This winter we will haul out and replace most of the thru hulls - it is about time I think.
The only real leaks are the windows and we had a small leak (depends on if you are talking with chuck or patty - chuck says small leak patty said the entire Atlantic) on our trip across the Atlantic. We did check them as best we could before we left and only took water when the seas were fairly big as we took a few that went over the bimini. We pulled all the windows in the Azores and reset them only to have them leak a couple of years later. In 2016 we pulled them before the Black Sea and the guy in the yard that helped us said he thought the problem was a bad batch of Sikaflex that they acknowledged and said we could send a sample and maybe get some relief that we did not do. Right now the boat is very dry and it is raining as if Noah were loading the Ark and no leaks at all.
Not sure about a windvane as it would screw up the swim platform but I guess it is possible. We have a Raymarine Autopilot that does most of the work. We carry 6 Trojan house batteries and about 500w of solar and a 150amp alternator.
What we like is you can see everything in the boat. Pick up the floor and no liner just the hull. We did have a problem with the forward water tank and it is currently not in use but with a water maker we could care less. We will remove it and replace it when we haul out this winter. We added drawers under the table and nav station table. We added a stainless steel piece on the front so the chain would not eat into the fiberglass when you pull the hook. We put on a 2nd fuel tank under the rear berth where there is room for a 3rd water tank and redid the fuel system with racor filters in a location we can get to and see them easily. We just replaced the mattress in the forward berth.
She is on our documentation and it depends on who does the reading as to her size. I say 12m and some bright c&i folks and marinas say 12.1. We do not argue as they are probably right.
Sometimes we wish we had a couple of more feet but sometimes not. We LOVE SoulMates and would want nothing else.
Hope this helps. Any issue or questions please let us know.
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Post by tomina on Jan 15, 2018 19:52:48 GMT
Sorry, I am coming a little late to this thread, I have an SO 40. The LOA is 11.77 but the length overall (including the anchor roller etc) is 12.2 mts. And this is the length that many Marina’s (in the Eatern Med) take for their berthing charges. In terms of leaks my boat is 2001 and we have found that the mastic sealing is failing in odd places notably around the stainless steel anchor and forestay fitting, if we are in a heavy sea burying the bow we will take a little water into the forward bilge around the tanks, we have two in the bow. This is not such a problem but does need occasional supervision. We also have a leak problem from the varios deck filling points, these are mastic sealed and screwed down with three s/s screws, not terribly sound. The forward water filler port side leaked for some time filling the bottom of the front cabing hanging locker. This was difficult to find until our shoes started coming out wet!!. Its an easy enough solution. Remove the three screws and pull the fitting up slightly, there should be no need to release the connecting pipe, clean up the fitting and the deck immediately beneath, form a sealing tape ring around the fitting and apply fresh mastic before screwing down again. Remove the tape when the mastic is not quite cured. Funnily enough we have had no trouble from the rigging through decks. Our through hulls afe all now replaced to ‘plastic’ we like this but not everybody does but they do remain very easy to open/close. No problems with the deck stepped mast nor the compression strut. And finally controversially. I would not have the deck saloon 40 or 43 I’m sorry to say but I do think they're so ugly!! But they are the most marvelllous boats inside. My 40 with its twin wheels and space on deck is after 17 years and many thousands of miles is still my boat of choice.
Which ever you choose will be a good choice. Happy sailing
Michael Solano & Julia Too
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Post by alenka on Jan 15, 2018 21:56:37 GMT
I would not have the deck saloon 40 or 43 I’m sorry to say but I do think they're so ugly!! But they are the most marvelllous boats inside. Of course when you are sat on the boat enjoying all that space you are not looking at it. LOL. !!! Will concede from some angles they are not pretty but a well maintained one still turns heads. Talking for leaks I met a Canadian who did two years live-a-board in the Med with his family. He told me that on certain tacks water would enter the chain locker through the drain and then seep into the bilge. He thought the problem might be all the extra weight he was carrying causing his boat to sit lower in the water. To date I have had no such problems. I have found however one under floor compartment in the fwd cabin that has no drain to the bilge. Water can get into it from the fwd heads tap if it is not connected properly onto the supply pipe. It is worth checking and drying out otherwise you have around two gallons in there with no place to go.   www.23hq.com/Alenka43ds/photo/39710277/original |
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Post by markevans on Jan 21, 2018 22:33:23 GMT
I just want to say thanks to all those who responded. The information proved very helpful. Fingers crossed we can come up with the right deal soon.
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Post by alenka on Jan 27, 2018 11:39:05 GMT
Mark,
In Greece there are many boats for sale that never make it onto the internet selling sites.
If you confirm where and how far you are prepared to look and what you consider to be the ideal boat then I (and no doubt others) will gladly email details to you.
Hope you find your perfect boat.
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Post by alenka on Jan 27, 2018 21:33:24 GMT
Mark, Details of this 43DS were mailed to me a few minutes ago. (I am still on the mailing lists of some brokers from when I was looking four years ago). www.networkyachtbrokers.com/boats_for_sale/Jeanneau_Sun_Odyssey_43_DS-3411.html/It is only a two cabin version(*) and the nav is pre-digital so no AIS indications. The RL series plotters will only run C-Maps not Navionics which is all in fashion these days. You could probably deduct the cost of new Nav gear from the asking price. I have been meaning to upgrade mine since I bought her 4+ years ago but as it is still going strong I have held onto my pennies. I can live without AIS in Greek waters, maybe if I was in the English Channel I would be more encouraged to make the change. Be aware that it is not just a case of swapping the plotter. The radar too also has to be digital to interface... And maybe the autopilot but cannot be 100% certain on this. Just bear in mind this kit was top of the range back in 2004 and is, by no means, bad even in todays world. Its just not the latest bells and whistles. (*)I said in an earlier post my preferred choice would be for the three cabin version. Because I have mixed gender friends sailing with me and an extra cabin would be ideal. If you don't have this problem then any guests you do have onboard will appreciate the really big en-suite guest cabin. Well, mine certainly do. I see the broker is NYB so chances are although the boat is in Spain you would be dealing with English speaking sales people. One of the worst brokers I ever tried to deal with was in Spain, but also I came across one of the most honest, who basically pointed every defect he knew about on a particular boat and hinted I might find a better model elsewhere! The LOA quoted in the ad is also wrong. a 43DS is 13.2m not 12.8m. |
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Post by markevans on Feb 5, 2018 22:49:23 GMT
The great feedback continues. Thanks to you all.
I've been in Europe the past 3 weeks looking at boats (while working I would add) and all but one boat has the compression post issue. And the odd one out has had it repaired. I hope Jeanneau are taking notes on this one.
Alenka, our list isn't that demanding. We are after a privately owned, well maintained, solid, dry, 43 DS. Condition rather than age at a realistic price. More cabins would help with liveaboard storage and since we will be spending so much time at anchor the big aft cabin seems wasted. Sadly the 4 cabin versions pretty much always implies charter. Some boats have been worked hard and others less so but overall the condition of most of the boats appears excellent, although I've only seen one out of the water so far. Most of the boats of this vintage have original rigging and throughhulls so I've assumed changing these at the same time as the compression post. As you say, most electronics are going to be long in the tooth so I'm not putting much store by this. We'll use what we get. Thanks too on the isolated bilge compartment which I haven't see yet but will be on the look out for.
Thanks again.
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Post by alenka on Feb 7, 2018 20:09:22 GMT
Hi Mark.
Think your assumptions regarding the four cabin versions are correct - they are all ex-charter boats. They tend to go very cheap but I have yet to see one in decent condition. Personally, I am not sure it really makes the best of the boat in that configuration either. It just offers ten beds for people to sleep on.
Also, if you have been on one then you will have noted the lack of storage bins (found on the 2/3 cab versions) either side of the aft bed. These are really useful for stowing sheets, blankets, clothes... All the stuff you need on an extended cruise.
If you need four cabins have you thought about a three cabin version and having a lightweight dividing wall put in just as it is on the four cabin version? All the fixing groves are there in place, its just a question of making up templates, cutting the wood and sliding it into place. Maybe someone on here (with a 4 cab version) can help you. You would still retain the storage bins but, of course, the bunks are a little smaller.
If I come across anything in the Greek yards I will let you know. NYB Preveza were listing a blue hull version at the end of last year. It seemed to be well equipped but the blue hull was definitely in need of a T-cut and polish.
Good Luck.
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