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Post by vasko on Mar 31, 2017 17:14:18 GMT
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Post by MartyB on Apr 1, 2017 4:52:55 GMT
Interesting to know, as I have been toying with a 1003C version......
Marty
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Post by vasko on Apr 1, 2017 6:47:06 GMT
yep, I have a friend who got a 1003 CS - the bigger battery and he was really annoyed with the 20h charging time and I didn't believe that there is no way to speed it up and spoke yesterday with torqeedo engineer directly and he indeed confirm the 24v thing - it is very simple they have a li-po 8s battery inside and step-up controller of 4amp and if you use 12v to charge it charges with 48w if you use the 24v the step up can get to 96w .
btw if you are brave enough and take the battery to peaces and attach additional plugs directly to the cells and use the following charger you may get down from 20h for the 915W battery to about 1h....
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Post by vasko on Apr 1, 2017 6:48:19 GMT
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Post by alenka on Apr 8, 2017 21:00:18 GMT
Wow. Very brave person who takes a lipo battery to pieces and starts messing with the way in which it is charged. Get one of those burning and you are in big trouble.
Got to say that my 1003 battery never takes anything like 20 hours to charge even from a very low state.
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Post by alenka on Apr 8, 2017 21:01:57 GMT
I seem to remember the official Torqeedo advice for faster charging is to use Solar
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Post by vasko on Apr 9, 2017 1:37:04 GMT
I seem to remember the official Torqeedo advice for faster charging is to use Solar The official suggestion is to supply 24v - which can come from the torqeedo solar, but not from the solars on the boat except if your boat system is 24v Also if you have the small battery then by default it will charge for around 10h... |
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Post by alenka on Apr 9, 2017 7:29:31 GMT
I am surprised your friends 1003C battery is taking over 20 hours to charge. According to the specs it should only take around 10.5 hours from fully discharged. Yes, I have the smaller battery which it is claimed takes 7.5 hours but mine is rarely on charge for more than 5 hours. Maybe because I don't run it to flat.
If you are buying a Torqeedo you have to ask yourself what journeys are you going to cover. I am rarely more than a mile from where I want to be so the standard version works just fine for me in the Ionian. It would also suffice for similar places such as the BVI's. Only if you are going four or five mile trips regularly would I consider going for the larger capacity battery; And at £799 I would not even think about invalidating the warranty by using a non-standard charger.
I am often confused by those who cite charging time as a problem. It might be inconvenient occasionally but it doesn't matter where you are in the world, if you have a solar array and a small inverter you will charge your battery. If you run out of petrol in an isolated place then there is one thing you can guarantee - no matter how long you wait the can will not fill itself!
Pluses.
No petrol on board
Free energy with the correct set-up
Lightweight
Never a problem to start
Virtually no servicing
Minuses
Expensive
You cannot 'instantly' add more fuel.
The battery is not secured to the motor - It is too easy for passer by to remove.
The connection cables could be better designed.
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Post by vasko on Apr 9, 2017 15:04:37 GMT
I am surprised your friends 1003C battery is taking over 20 hours to charge. According to the specs it should only take around 10.5 hours from fully discharged. Yes, I have the smaller battery which it is claimed takes 7.5 hours but mine is rarely on charge for more than 5 hours. Maybe because I don't run it to flat. If you are buying a Torqeedo you have to ask yourself what journeys are you going to cover. I am rarely more than a mile from where I want to be so the standard version works just fine for me in the Ionian. It would also suffice for similar places such as the BVI's. Only if you are going four or five mile trips regularly would I consider going for the larger capacity battery; And at £799 I would not even think about invalidating the warranty by using a non-standard charger. I am often confused by those who cite charging time as a problem. It might be inconvenient occasionally but it doesn't matter where you are in the world, if you have a solar array and a small inverter you will charge your battery. If you run out of petrol in an isolated place then there is one thing you can guarantee - no matter how long you wait the can will not fill itself! Pluses. No petrol on board Free energy with the correct set-up Lightweight Never a problem to start Virtually no servicing Minuses Expensive You cannot 'instantly' add more fuel. The battery is not secured to the motor - It is too easy for passer by to remove. The connection cables could be better designed. Hi alenka, I'm seriously bought into the electrics outboards  but I build a outboard myself as my view for regular outboards and also torqeedo is that they have serious down sides - i wanted an advance remote operated outboard that can go minimum 2h on max power and been able to navigate itself - and this is exactly what I build : jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/4132/electric-outboard-engine-opinions-wantedthe thread for torqeedo was for people who already have one or planing to buy one - how with £10 investment to cut the charging time in half no matter how long it is:) |
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Post by alenka on Apr 10, 2017 10:34:50 GMT
Whilst I hear what you say it has to be said that lithium/Li-Po batteries can be potentially dangerous if not charged, discharged or managed correctly and your suggestions for rapid charging do not make the reader aware of such issues.
Even Boeing Aircraft and Samsung have recently got it wrong and found that what should happen in theory and what actually happens in practise can be poles apart.
Suggesting that is is possible to take apart a Torqeedo battery to modify the cells rings very loud alarm bells for me. The consequences could be extremely serious and may even result in possible injury.
Personally, I would never consider going against the instructions of the manufacturer for charging such batteries and certainly never ever use cheap Chinese circuitry that has no CE compliance associated with it.
The question I am left asking myself is, if doubling 12v to 24v makes such a huge difference then why haven't Torqeedo made a rapid charger that performs this function as an optional extra. Could it be a safety issue? Or perhaps a shortening of battery life in the long term?
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Post by vasko on Apr 10, 2017 16:26:08 GMT
Whilst I hear what you say it has to be said that lithium/Li-Po batteries can be potentially dangerous if not charged, discharged or managed correctly and your suggestions for rapid charging do not make the reader aware of such issues. Even Boeing Aircraft and Samsung have recently got it wrong and found that what should happen in theory and what actually happens in practise can be poles apart. Suggesting that is is possible to take apart a Torqeedo battery to modify the cells rings very loud alarm bells for me. The consequences could be extremely serious and may even result in possible injury. Personally, I would never consider going against the instructions of the manufacturer for charging such batteries and certainly never ever use cheap Chinese circuitry that has no CE compliance associated with it. The question I am left asking myself is, if doubling 12v to 24v makes such a huge difference then why haven't Torqeedo made a rapid charger that performs this function as an optional extra. Could it be a safety issue? Or perhaps a shortening of battery life in the long term? alenka, please do not touch the battery or open or do anything else with your torqeedo - leave it as it is. My post is for boat owners who also has significant engineering knowledge about how a li-po battery works , what is balenced charging , li-po charging process and what is 8S, 7S etc means and are able to produce their own electric motor with li-ion battery bank. Re: why torqeedo hasn't done this or that you can ask them on their web site there is a nica chat form that you can do a immediate/online chat with skilled torqueedo engineer who can answer your questions. |
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Post by alenka on Apr 10, 2017 18:36:46 GMT
Your thread under the heading 'Tips and Tricks for Torqeedo current and future owners' makes no suggestion that your comments are only intended for engineers possessing high levels of knowledge and skills in lithium/Li-Po batteries systems. The inference is quite the opposite.
I consider that you should never have created this thread on this forum. The comments are misleading and could lead the unsuspecting into serious injury or substantial damage. Not only can bad charging practice put one of these batteries into a thermal run-away state that cannot be shut down, some charging techniques are also know to interfere with heart pace-maker systems.
For the sake of safety I suggest you ask the moderator to remove the thread from the forum without further delay.
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Post by MickeyB on Apr 11, 2017 6:44:34 GMT
Gents - let's keep calm about this.
I think Vaskos original post is great, and very instructional. Yes, you can blow yourself up if you are not careful, but a huge amount of anything discussed here can result in serious problems (for example my thread last year of replacing the prop bearings whilst afloat!!)
If someone is daft enough to read ANYTHING on the internet and then go and do it, well, I think Darwin's evolution springs to mind.
I for one, understand enough about electrics and engines to dive right in. Gas, on the other hand scares me to bits. Cannot see it, it sinks and hides and I am a smoker. Nuff said.
I love all these ideas - and hope that this forum remains a mix of everything - it is truly a brilliant resource.
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Post by Aroha on Apr 11, 2017 21:18:37 GMT
The strength of a forum like this is that it allows ideas of all sorts to be expressed - ideas to be "floated", things for newbies and things for experts. There is a broad base of experience and expertise. If there is an idea expressed that may have dangers for some within it then one would hope that within the membership someone would pick up and highlight the dangers. I would be unhappy with any editing but equally unhappy if there were signs of membership complacency such that ideas were not challenged on all sorts of grounds, including warning the "less able" about difficulties that might exist in implementing any idea posted. Vaskos wide ranging and obviously expert ideas, and his floating of many fascinating concepts are not a problem, nor is it a problem that some have raised concerns about aspects of them that may be seen as problematic by other members. Suppressing ideas would decrease the value of the forum
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Post by vasko on Apr 13, 2017 17:37:08 GMT
All, We exchanged couple of private messages with alenka and all is sorted He is making a good point that if Li-Po are not properly handled they can be dangerous. and to clarify the suggestion that I made are : 1. use step-up-controller and totqueedo car charger cable and get 2x faster charging - actually this one comes from torqeedo themselves to supply 24v instead of 12v. as they use step-up controller themselves which is not very powerful because of space/price constraint and when input is 12v the power is exactly x2 less compared with 24v input. 2. if you open the battery box - not the batteries themselves! - and solder additional cabling to be able to use in addition to the original input a external powerful li-po - 8S balanced battery charger you can go to as low as 1h to charge the bigger battery pack - of course if you do this - you will loose the warranty and also need to buy a powerful li-po 8S battery charger which is not pennies ( although available from hobbyking) |
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but I build a outboard myself as my view for regular outboards and also torqeedo is that they have serious down sides - i wanted an advance remote operated outboard that can go minimum 2h on max power and been able to navigate itself - and this is exactly what I build : 
