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Post by hoppy on Jul 26, 2016 18:09:05 GMT
Luck Hoppy said the post was about hypothetical options so we can be a bit more imaginative with the suggestions. exactly..... I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a carbon fibre keel step mast upgrade and a new keel & rudder. I was bored swinging at anchor so I sent in a quote request to Quantum in Aus. Will be interested to see what they recommend and how much. Petermc, which cloth do you have? Fusion M 5000 series?
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Post by petermc on Jul 26, 2016 23:46:03 GMT
yes, i have the M5000 series laminate. This range comes with either yellow or black Aramid string (not carbon), I chose black simply because I liked the look better....and some think they are carbon! Something interesting to point out, on my newer sail, the No.1 light, its relatively transparent, so much so that I can kind of see through it going to windward. Makes tacking through tight fleets that little bit easier. Only thing I will say about this laminate is that (my sail maker tells me) they hate the sun. He gets very upset if he sees my headsail not packed away already when i get back to the dock. Having said that I have noticed no wear and tear at all on my Main which has been in the boom constantly since mid 2012, kept in a lazy jack boom bag.
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Post by hoppy on Jul 29, 2016 6:27:13 GMT
Not happy with my quote In spite of a long description of my requirements, specifically mentioning that my cruising sails are still ok, I don't need a UV strip, I want better than a cruising laminate (as mentioned in their first contact with me) and that I want a price on a no.1, 3 & main, I still got a quote on triradial cruising laminate sails with UV strip and no no.3 and stated "go that 1 step better than Dacron for performance reasons". If I was out to replace my cruising sails, this is probably what I'd look at now. I was talking to another Aussie sailor who I met at an anchorage the other day about Quantum. I bought a sail from them in Turkey which was less than good and was told he can get it fixed under their international warrantee in Greece, which is turning into a major headache for him. It had us wondering if Quantum and I guess many other international brands are sometimes not much more than the sign over the door. The sails I am quoted for would be made in Melbourne and I'm guessing the good stuff I want a price for is either made in a main loft in Aus or OS. It would be nice to get the price for the right sails so I can figure out how much I need to beg, borrow, steal and grovel to the missus for when I want the upgrade.
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Post by hoppy on Jul 29, 2016 6:57:40 GMT
The SO 40 needs more mainsail and the most effective way to do it is to put on a big fat head main and a longer boom out to an E of 5.5 metres. The Red Hand is a super fast daysailer on the harbour and it has a mast head rig with a fat head main. The SO 349 has gone this way too and there will be more on the harbour. I saw another pretty old yacht last Sunday that had put on a fat head main but could not get a good photo. Anyway I am talking my own book because that is what we are doing with the new yacht I am building. On the hypothetical side of the topic. Yesterday I was looking up and wondering about running backstays on a masthead rig. So It's possible... Perhaps the biggest issue for switching to RBS and a fat head would be the deck step mast. I would imagine that a keel stepped will add a safety factor that deck stepped won't have. So I'm guessing that to remove the backstay and add a margin of safety, the spreader and stays would probably have to be different. Maybe a SF37/40 could go the RBS/Fat Head route. Now if I had an unlimited budget and a need to prove a point, I guess a new taller keel stepped carbon mast world be the go along with a much deeper custom design keel and rudder would make a huge step forward
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Post by petermc on Jul 29, 2016 12:59:48 GMT
Hoppy, sorry to hear you got messed around. I can tell you that Quantum used to use locals here to represent (at least in Sydney, a guy by name of Carl Crawford) in a joint arrangement but Carl sold his share of the local op back to Quantum last year, just after my last sail was delivered. Interestingly I have had no contact from them since and I thought I might have made their Christmas card list by now given what I have bought from them.
my sails (the good stuff?) were made in their Malayasia loft, which is where even their US clients laminate sails come from I believe.
i suspect this to be common to all international lofts but the service really depends on your local contact and how good they are at their job. For me Carl was good, spent a lot of time measuring up the boat and was good at Comms, but he would also put a used car salesman to shame.
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Post by hoppy on Jul 29, 2016 14:19:41 GMT
I think I'll fish around with another sailmaker and perhaps revisit Quantum when I'm more serious. Not sure if I should try North as they always were so much more expensive for windward sails when I priced them in Sweden. I don't know if I want to hear a price that could dampen my enthusiasm at this premature stage
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Post by hoppy on Jul 29, 2016 14:20:31 GMT
but he would also put a used car salesman to shame. LOL
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Post by sitara on Jul 29, 2016 22:08:16 GMT
Good sail maker in Geelong and his prices are reasonable. Used to be the Quantum outlet there. Knows his stuff and talks sense.
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Post by hoppy on Jul 30, 2016 5:24:38 GMT
Good sail maker in Geelong and his prices are reasonable. Used to be the Quantum outlet there. Knows his stuff and talks sense. Does he have a name?
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Post by sitara on Jul 30, 2016 6:41:54 GMT
Opps a name would be handy. Bull Sails, Tony Bull is the sail maker. 33 Eastern Beach Rd, Geelong VIC 3220 Telephone (03) 5222 2930. Rob
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Post by hoppy on Jul 30, 2016 7:40:17 GMT
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Post by hoppy on Jul 30, 2016 7:52:41 GMT
Marty, I don't think our PHRF implementation down under is nearly as sophisticated as yours! Under PHRF here you are assigned a TCF that is more dependent on the dynamics of the fleet in the particular race series you are entered in. Then it's adjusted post each race penalising the faster boats and helping the slowest. System unfortunately penalises good crew and skipper work. only other wide spread option down here has been IRC but not everyone wants to get their boat weighed. However in the last 12 months we have seen the ORCi or club rating system starting to be used concurrently with PHRF in our regular club races. This rating does not require a formal measurement session but is calculated off datum on sails, spars, hull, age and weight provided by the owner with a formal certificate issued by YA. I got one recently and was a simple process. This at least goes some of the way to fixing our version of PHRF down here I see that the Sydney-Gold Coast race is has IRC, ORCi & PHS. Looks like the IRC boats are also racing under ORCi but the PHS are only entered in that. I thought PHS would be more for the more leisurely cruiser/racers and perhaps old racers well past their prime, but the old racers like the S&S 47 love & war is still in IRC/ORCi and in the PHS is the Volvo 70 Maserati
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Post by MartyB on Jul 30, 2016 13:53:46 GMT
Hoppy, sorry to hear you got messed around. I can tell you that Quantum used to use locals here to represent (at least in Sydney, a guy by name of Carl Crawford) in a joint arrangement but Carl sold his share of the local op back to Quantum last year, just after my last sail was delivered. Interestingly I have had no contact from them since and I thought I might have made their Christmas card list by now given what I have bought from them. my sails (the good stuff?) were made in their Malayasia loft, which is where even their US clients laminate sails come from I believe. i suspect this to be common to all international lofts but the service really depends on your local contact and how good they are at their job. For me Carl was good, spent a lot of time measuring up the boat and was good at Comms, but he would also put a used car salesman to shame. Being as a 349 has a fat head main, deck stepped, not so sure a keel stepped is needed per say. It might take a different rigging setup to achieve this, but I feel one can do it and still be a safe and sane setup. a carbon mast would help, you can probably go 2-3' taller over an SF rig, 4-5' over the so rig. Then yes, go to a keel that has a lower CoG, in a lead bulb steel fin. A local boat has a 10' 750 lb fin, and 10500 of lead in the bulb. I could see a 500-700lb fin, 3000 lb lead bulb with a 7-8' draft giving a boat this size a pretty good righting arm, better SA/Disp......but, not so sure an SO/SF35,37,40 is worth doing this to. THe 349/409 would be, as the hull design is more capable of planing etc. FRom a cost effectiveness, these two 9 series Jeanneaus if one had an unlimited budget per say to mod a boat, would be better choices imho. Marty
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Post by petermc on Jul 31, 2016 2:29:36 GMT
Im on the same page as Marty, personally I'm a bit of a fan of the 349 with a fat head main, as I have mentioned before I have raced against one and I kept up with it to windward but was not faster. I think that boat powered up with the right amount of crew weight on the side is nearly as fast at the new SF3600, to windward at least. Problem with messing around with say my SF37 is that changing the main (boom length, mast height etc) changes the geometry of the boat and moves the centre of effort more aft (assuming no major keel mods) and would likely produce more weather helm, and I already have enough of that in the current config! But I do like fat head mains.....they make trimming so much easier in gusty weather
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Post by petermc on Jul 31, 2016 2:40:36 GMT
I see that the Sydney-Gold Coast race is has IRC, ORCi & PHS. Looks like the IRC boats are also racing under ORCi but the PHS are only entered in that. I thought PHS would be more for the more leisurely cruiser/racers and perhaps old racers well past their prime, but the old racers like the S&S 47 love & war is still in IRC/ORCi and in the PHS is the Volvo 70 Maserati Interesting isn't it. Thing about ORCi (not ORC club) is that both it and IRC require the boat to be weighed, so most who go for IRC rating also do the ORCi at the same time because the measurements can be used for both. Those only in PHS almost certainly have not gone to the trouble of having their boats weighed, hence no IRC or ORCi entry As an aside, I have been told I should get an IRC rating because the age factor (2001) would be kind to me and those in the know thought the boat should therefore be reasonably competitive under IRC. Not sure I can be bothered with all the work to empty the boat out for the weigh. As a funny aside, a 42i owner here in Sydney did tell me that by the time he emptied the boat out for his IRC weigh-in the boat was apparently floating several inches higher in the water. Perhaps the getting a rating is a good way to clean out the rubbish!
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Post by hoppy on Jul 31, 2016 4:21:55 GMT
I guess it's like moving houses or in my case moving countries.
That age factor I guess helped Wild Rose a couple of years ago and is why the oldies are in IRC/ORCi
I noticed that in the standings, the yachts places in both IRC & ORCi are fairly similar. It would be interesting to compare at the end of the race to see what anomalies there are.
Right now WOIX and Love and War are 40 & 41 in ORCi & 50 & 51 in IRC. IRC has 9 more entrants, so it seems like both ratings are affecting a Maxi and an old classic racer equally.
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Post by hoppy on Aug 2, 2016 7:54:40 GMT
I was just looking at the blog site for Equus (519 in VicMaui race) and found this photo A few times, usually when in the companionway trimming the main, I've realised the value of having the instruments on the mast. I'm not sure how useful all of them are for the crew, especially COG/HDG. I do like the idea of TWS/AWA especially the AWA as a number and I must see I can put that on my RM i70 The top one really catches my attention, I don't know what BSP is (speed but what speed?) but the POL 96% would be great to have. I assume that it is saying they are sailing at 96% of their polar speed. Could BSP be the Best Speed and their goal to achieve 100%? It would be nice if RayMarine could give us that information
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Post by hoppy on Aug 3, 2016 7:53:06 GMT
Opps a name would be handy. Bull Sails, Tony Bull is the sail maker. 33 Eastern Beach Rd, Geelong VIC 3220 Telephone (03) 5222 2930. Rob I got a quote from Tony today. Very happy that he listened to what I was requesting. He was good also with the comments he included about the sails in regards to racing regs and the general performance (advice I want to hear from a sailmaker) The main - "3 Reef to comply with special regulations so that for Cat 3 events so no need to carry a trysail." No1. medium heavy - "137% gives an area of 44.8 which will be enough for 12knots, and using 4T light enough to perform well then all the way to 22kts." No3 / 4 - "with areaq around 28 and if designed to special regs Heavy Weather Jib spec won’t need a storm jib for Cat4, plus due to the Sun Odyssey shallow draft this boat will be straight into a J4/Reef 1 in 26 knots, J4/R2 32 knots and J4/R3 at 38kts." The sails would be their 4T Forte 215R composite www.onesails.com/4t-forte/Certainly a sailmaker I can be happy to deal with. But of course it all comes with a big nasty catch. 3 sails for about $30k AUD including a discount. I might have to win the lottery if I want to dress Jessabbe up with those sails
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Post by sitara on Aug 3, 2016 8:29:38 GMT
I am going to stick with plain sails and cruising! Come and have a chat at RGYC when you get Jessabbe here, Tony's loft is part of the RGYC compound.
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Post by hoppy on Aug 6, 2016 6:56:04 GMT
I am going to stick with plain sails and cruising! Come and have a chat at RGYC when you get Jessabbe here, Tony's loft is part of the RGYC compound. Will definitely make it down at some point. If I recall correctly, I think RMYS published on their site that members now get a couple of nights free berthing at RGYC. I received a followup mail from Tony mentioning another sail "Vektor2" which will be about 25% cheaper. Getting a little more sensible
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Post by hoppy on Aug 6, 2016 7:15:00 GMT
I've realised that I might need to replace my bowsprit (again) If I keep the boat at RMYS they have 12m & 15m pens. They will allow up to 12.5m in the 12m pen and my fixed bowsprit extends Jessabbe to 12.75m And if I replace it, I'm back to square one with the fitting of my Rocna... At $2000aud per year difference between the 12m & 15m, a new bowsprit will probably pay for itself in the first year.
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Post by petermc on Aug 8, 2016 13:29:23 GMT
Have been meaning to ask H, are you up for GST on boat value when it lands back in Oz?
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Post by hoppy on Aug 8, 2016 14:35:55 GMT
Have been meaning to ask H, are you up for GST on boat value when it lands back in Oz? GST & 5% customs duty It really sucks that an expat of 18 years can bring SFA back to the country without paying taxes (again).
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Post by petermc on Aug 8, 2016 23:19:47 GMT
yeah, a good mate of mine has decided to leave his Hylas 49, which he purchased on East Coat US and sailed across the Pacific, in New Zealand to avoid - for the time being - the tax hit. In fact they are thinking of sailing it back top the US for sale, primarily because of the deeper market to sell in but an added bonus is the fact they won't trigger the GST and customs charges
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Post by hoppy on Aug 9, 2016 4:28:05 GMT
yeah, a good mate of mine has decided to leave his Hylas 49, which he purchased on East Coat US and sailed across the Pacific, in New Zealand to avoid - for the time being - the tax hit. In fact they are thinking of sailing it back top the US for sale, primarily because of the deeper market to sell in but an added bonus is the fact they won't trigger the GST and customs charges I though about keeping her in NZ for a while but I don't want to go back to a "distance relationship". More fun to pop down to the nearby marina and do a day race or a bay cruise. Actually the duty and GST are reasonable when compared to the shipping or the taxes I was used to in Sweden. It sucks but that's life. I wouldn't be doing this if I thought I would be wanting to sell her.
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