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Post by Aroha on Mar 21, 2016 8:39:06 GMT
Does anyone have experience with storm jibs that sleeve over the genoa eg Hyde , e-sails, Gale etc?
Are they a good idea or is it best to take down the genoa and run up a hanked storm jib?
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Post by On y va on Mar 21, 2016 9:26:38 GMT
I think you should ask yourself: do you really want to be faffing around your foredeck to put that thing up in a developing storm? As 9 out of 10 people wait.....till it is too late.
Just look at the youtubes on these sails. All doing this in generally calm weather or even a marina. And look at all the things you need to do, before you can actually deploy this sail. Click this there, click that onto such and attach so to this.
You have a furling genoa, furl it! And if you find your sheet angle is not good and the genua flaps/flutters too much, click a barberhauler onto your genua sheet (which you can have prepared before you set off anyway), which you tie off at the correct length to your main stay chain plate. Easypeacy.
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Post by vasko on Mar 21, 2016 12:58:22 GMT
I agree with On y va - but still I want to have some kind of a sail in a strong winds... but prefer to be a try-sail then storm-jib - no way I will send someone to the bow or go myself if it is not a matter of life and death... the view that I have is that I need a very small sail about 1-2 sq meters max just to stabilize the boat - to be honest in really strong wind the boat move fast enough just on hull  on the following video : We have 27kt wind from the stern and the boat is flying with 7+kt very comfortably with just a duster for the genni... on this video : We have about 40kt side wind - boat is moving with 8+kt and not very comfortale www.facebook.com/vasko.tomanov/videos/10150410818203974/and on this we are with 30kt side wind boat is moving with 7-8kt with fun in some extent... www.facebook.com/vasko.tomanov/videos/10150411412488974/and I have been only once in 54kt - and I do not want to be again to be honest - actually around 44kt the things start to be completely unmanageable most of the time... you can survive about 1h against or aside of the wind if you need to enter in a harbour to get safety with hi-risk also ruining your engine as you will need the engine ( the full throttle) to be able to withstand the vigilant turnings of the boat when you get wind gust and wave suddenly collided and pushing you to turn the boat... the best advice that I can give is to not fight but instead go with the wind .... and pray to not be in this fat belly comfortable cats e.g. Lagoon which has sooo much wind resistance that are quite dangerous in hi-seas... btw: I have found in google that someone has left a very good book for download here : bloglorenzo.free.fr/aladis/voile_gros_temps.pdf |
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Post by lajeanneau on Mar 21, 2016 16:03:04 GMT
It is my opinion that this could be broken down into two situations:
No advanced warning of high winds – In this case, the prior posts about tactics to use your current furled sail inventory to avoid sending crew forward is advisable.
Advanced warning of high winds – We were advised by several sail makers and experienced sailors, prior to a Pacific crossing that the preferable option was to drop the headsail and hoist the storm jib in the luff groove or hanked on the wire with a pennant to the tack.
The storm jib we purchased actually could accommodate two situations. It had a bolt rope to be hoisted in the luff groove and secondary back-up straps wrapping around the front of the luff.
These straps, could also be used to wrap around the furled headsail, although a less desirable option, due to straps chafing on the headsail, availability of a secondary halyard, and difficulty in raising it up over the head sail. This was on our boat, so individual results may vary.
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Post by dralyagmas on Mar 22, 2016 3:18:25 GMT
I would not touch a storm jib that is strapped to the furled genoa. Guaranteed disaster not only in a wildly flogging sails and pitching sea but also dangerous to be on the bow for that long.
I am debating the pro's and con's of how to rig my storm jib. I do not want to drop the furling genoa and run up the storm jib in the foil. That is a also recipe for disaster. So I am considering two options:
1- dyneema luff rope/stay that is set from a reinforced fitting just behind the anchor to create a baby stay. This will require reinforcing of the bulkhead under the fitting which is describe din a hints and tips page. This can run up on either the topping lift halyard or the kite halyard which will obviously be fit for purpose.
2- again dyneema rope/stay in the same manner as above but connected to a second tack point on the existing forestay fitting under the furler. This would be run up using same halyard as option 1 but just a different take off point which would save me from going through the work of the reinforcement.
Option 1 makes sense as it will provide a better balance (I think) because the sail is closer to the mast. It will be free of fouling or damaging the furled genoa/forestay. Option 2 has the potential to damage the forestay and foul the top swivel of the furler, but requires not additional work.
Any thoughts...
While on the subject I also go for a mainsail with 3 reefing points so you don't have to rig a trysail. This and other brilliant tried and tested methods can be seen on the Skip Novak youtube channel for storm sailing techniques |
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Post by On y va on Mar 22, 2016 15:39:07 GMT
To avoid all this faffing around on the foredeck, I installed a permanent staysail on a furler. End of issue.
But, only as I intend to go on a bit of a cruise. Otherwise I wouldn´t have done it, as it is also less quick to tack.
In regards to the third reef in the main: my main has 3 reefs.....but I wish I had the 3rd reefing point done as deep as possible. As it is still quite a bit of sail. I am even considering having a 4th reef put in, so you can actually use it as a try sail.
Luckily I have a second/spare main with currently only 2 reefing points, so I will a deep 3rd reef made into that one.
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Post by ianpowolny on Mar 22, 2016 15:55:55 GMT
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Post by Aroha on Mar 23, 2016 7:15:46 GMT
Thank you as usual for the combined wisdom
I am persuaded that taking down the furled Genoa to set up a storm jib or using a sleeved jib over the furled sail are neither good ideas
This leaves using a well furled Genoa with the barber hauler as a reasonable compromise between safety and function or arranging to install a stay for the storm jib - the latter is obviously a bigger deal but perhaps functionally better. How much luff sag would occur using this set up with the spinnaker halyard to tension the luff ? Is this a real issue?
With the main a 3rd or 4 th reef would seem to be a reasonable option instead of a trysl . What proportion of the main should be reefed away? My reading suggests a max of 40% of the mains area should remain after putting in the final reef. Is this the general agreement?
When I've been reading about this I wonder whether the balance of the storm set up is significantly affected by hull shape/ keel form. The modern Jeanneau hull is not a traditional long keel cruising yacht - does this invalidate the sorts of advice one sees in the usual books about heavy weather tactics?
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Post by On y va on Mar 23, 2016 7:48:55 GMT
Aroha : for a Jeanneau (or similar), you cannot follow the general rules in regards to storm tactics. People always refer to Skip Novak´s storm tactics. Sure, his storm tactics are accurate and good....for his boats. But his Pelagics are just NOT comparable to a Jeanneau. You have to be one step ahead with them, as they are light, nimble boats and pretty unforgiving in a good storm. My thumb of rule with winds over force 8, is that I am not going anywhere beyond the mast unless it is truly necessary. I am not sure that 40% main sail left, is good enough for me. I would want 25 to 30%, so in my case that would be 10m2 as the smallest reef, so I think that is just under the 2nd full batten (have not measured it yet). That plus 6 or 7m2 staysail close to the mast (I can furl the staysail from 12m2 down) and with the clew at boom height....that will go a long way. HERE you can see the setup.
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Post by Aroha on Mar 23, 2016 7:59:01 GMT
Thanks on y va
I'm still very green in relation to handling my wee ship and am pleased about your comments re novaks videos
I was sure that the jeanneaus would handle differently but not yet had ( and not really intending to ) try it out in storm conditions
I would prefer tho to be prepared and informed
Your images show the stay set up beautifully / would you do anything differently in hindsight
With the main it seemed to me with no rack knowledge that 40% was still a lot of sail so your advice seems both logical and is indeed valued
With a trysl the boom is "locked" mid ships but with a reefed main is not - how much of an issue is the "boom into the water" risk
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Post by On y va on Mar 25, 2016 10:24:26 GMT
Quote: Your images show the stay set up beautifully / would you do anything differently in hindsight Aroha : I should have maybe bought the same furler as the genua furler (Facnor), just from an estetics point of view. I looked more at budget really and got a Plastimo one. For the rest I am pretty happy with the whole setup. It works very well and is easy to handle. The flexibility in sails settings is very good. |
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Post by Aroha on Mar 27, 2016 10:05:24 GMT
Thank you
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