2008 SO36i Electric Bilge Pump Vibration and Float failure

[Daverman]

Hello - I am the proud new owner of a 2008 SO 36I P and a new member of this Forum.

Our new boat was lightly used (a dock princess perhaps) and a little neglected.  I am doing a number of minor repairs now that she is out of the water, working to get her in ship shape for the spring.

I have two issues with the electric bilge pump, and was wondering if other owners experienced similar issues and if they had solutions / causes for this.

Firstly, the sealed electronic float/level switch located in the bilge worked loose ( screws stripped and came loose) and the unit became submerged in the bilge and does not appear to function anymore.  I assume it was damaged by water through the loose rubber gasket around the electrical wires.  I am going to replace it, but was concerned that it came loose in the first place.  Any suggestions?

Secondly, the electric bilge pump located on the starboard side panel behind seat cushions also came loose. The pump appears to vibrate quite wildly (more than I would expect) and the four screws stripped right out of the wood mounting panel.  There are rubber isolation pads that absorb moderate vibration, but these did not stand up to high vibration.  I am going to screw/ drill new holes and remount the unit on rubber isolation pads, but am concerned that the excessive vibration will only cause the pump to strip the scrrws again.  Any suggestions / experience with similar failure?

[so36idavid]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new boat! I have a 36i which I love. The perfect size for me, small enough to easily single-hand but comfortably holds my wife and two small kids for a week long trip.  

The previous owner replaced the bilge pump, I'm not sure why. The new pump is a generic West Marine brand, seems to work ok. He installed it upside down and with kinked hoses, which I sorted out. I think he did that because the replacement pumps in the opposite direction to the original. 

I replaced the float switch. When I bought the boat it came with the a Rule float switch. IMHO these are extremely dangerous. In the bad old days they used to have a bead of mercury to close the circuit. These worked flawlessly. Unfortunately they are no longer made that way because of the environmental concerns about the mercury. The new version has a failure mode of stuck-on which can cause the pump to run until it burns out. I witnessed the switch fail in this manner. There are plenty of terrible reviews on the WM site and Amazon which testify to this. I urge anyone who has one of these switches to rip it out.

I replaced it with a Johnson float switch. I don't know that it's the greatest quality either but so far so good. I quite like the look of the Water Witch (no moving parts). If the Johnson goes bad I'm going to try one of those. The downside of either of these is that you have to get a ground wire into the bilge and there isn't one in the wiring harness that goes down there. Sadly the wiring penetrates the hull liner in an inaccessible place and so you can't just add one to the bundle. I had to pull one from the other side of the boat. While I was at it I installed a high-water alarm, I'd be happy to let you have pics and schematics on that if you're interested.

David

[rc sail]

Ahoy Yolo,
congratulations on your new Jeanneau. Sorry to learn you are having some issues. While these issues are aggravating they present
a good way to get to know your vessel
David's posting appears to give you some good insight on float switches. Perhaps a google search on float switches will give
some more insight and user reviews for the best replacement switch.
My 2007 39 ds came with a factory installed Johnson Viking Power 16 pump as the bilge pump. It was always noisy and much
vibration as you described. It stopped pumping in summer 2014. I probably could have repaired but since it was so unfriendly
I replaced it with a Whale Gulper. The gulper was much more quiet and had a greater pump flow rate than the Johnson.
I would expect you can remount the current pump with larger screws or perhaps fill the existing screw mount holes with some epoxy
and drill out and re-screw.
Hoping you will have a short winter to get back aboard and sailing your new vessel!
RC

[allegria]

Hi Daverman,

Congrats on the new boat. I have a 2010 36i and very pleased also...
I can't comment on the float switch or the pump, both the original parts worked flawlessly for me so far.
One thing I would attract your attention on is the strainer/non return valve unit seating in the bilge.
Mine seized a couple of years ago and wasn't letting any water being pumped out. It took me a while to find out as my boat is virtually dry so the bilge pump hardly gets to work. I also looked at every other failure points (float, pump, ...) before realising the issue.
I ended up plunging the strainer in Hydrochloric acid for a few seconds and it certainly cleared it! Ok, I believe leaving it to rest for a day or two in vinegar would have the same effect, without the fumes!
I now check the strainer on a regular basis...

Happy sailing,
Cheers,
Allegria

[allegria]

Hi Daverman,

Here is a link to the issue I reported previously:
jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2928/bilge-strainer-return-valve-seized

Cheers,
Allegria

[Trevor]

Hello Daverman,

Firstly welcome to the forum and good luck in replacing the bilge pumps but when that small problem is resolved you have yourself a really great yacht. We purchased one new and it was and amazing vessel.

Stick with the resolution to the bilge pump issue and enjoy that beautiful yacht.

Regards,

[Daverman]

Wow - Thanks to all for great replies - I am glad I joined this forum.

I should have been more clear in the issues:
- the pump works effectively but noisy (due to vibration and no screws holding it in place) in manual / ON mode.
- The pump vibrates and worked the screws loose
- the pump does not operate in Auto mode, even when the float switch is submerged.
- there does not appear to be any strainer / check valve on the 2008 J 36i version (but I will take a closer look)
- the switch is an Electronic two wire "float" switch - a sealed unit  - I suspect it has some sort of reed / mercury switch internal, manufacture appears to be Ultima Switch - 12/24 VDC and 20 amp.

Since my 2008 J36i does not appear to have the same strainer / check valve assembly - perhaps that is why the pump vibrates (perhaps some debris is stuck / clogging the pump itself).

I will look up the float switch - am hoping to replace in kind unless others have seen premature failure of same switch manufacture.

I will take apart the pump to see if there is an issue inside.

I will look into adding a strainer check valve if there is not one currently.

I will share findings...

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas.

More questions to follow as I have fun learning and exploring this great boat!

[jlasail]

Some inputs about bilge pump that was eyes opening for me. I'll admit I am a newbie, so for experts out there you can ignore this message:
- I have a recent SO409, less than 2 y.o. and occasionally my bilge pump would not perform consistently. I lived with the problem during the season.
- While doing the winterization this past weekend, I could not get the pump to empty the bilge I had filled with the pink/purple liquid to prevent the lines from freezing. 
- After trying a few things with no success, I finally open the bilge pump itself (diaphragm Jabsco), the diaphragm was fine, however I discovered a small piece of white gelcoat stuck in the exhaust valve. The piece was 30mm long by 3 mm wide and razor thin. This piece was stuck in the valve and was preventing it from closing totally when the diaphragm was up. After getting rid of it, everything was back to normal.

Hopefully this story will help someone else.

JL

[so36idavid]

Nov 19, 2015 15:23:58 GMT Daverman said:

- the pump does not operate in Auto mode, even when the float switch is submerged.

If the pump works in manual but not auto mode then the problem isn't with the pump. It's an electrical problem. Either the float switch is bad, the selector switch on the panel is bad or there's a broken wire/connection somewhere. Get a voltmeter and work forwards from the electrical panel. I'd bet $1 it's the float switch.

To remount the pump either use fatter screws or through-bolt with a nylock nut, then you'll never have to think about the problem again. You can buy vibration damping mounts of all sizes from McMaster Carr. 

David

[Stephen Holgate]

I have an 08 and the mounting block for the switch is a piece of glassed over foam if I recall and it needs to be replaced with something more durable. The pump itself is just noisy and vibrates a lot. It is on my list to come up with a way of quieting it down.

[Daverman]

Update:
2008 SO36i Bilge Pump Vibration and Water Level Switch failure.

Thanks for all the replies.  I have fixed the issue - here is my solution / findings that might help others:

Bilge Pump
- I dismantled, cleaned and re assembled the bilge pump - found no issues that would cause vibration.

- I did find that the pump mounting screws (# 8x 3/4" long wood screws that hold the bilge pump base to the wood mounting plate) were too short - they only penetrated less than 1/4" into wood mounting plate.  Over time they stripped and came loose and this caused vibration and noise.  I replaced them #10x1 1/4" long screws and now the pump makes NO noise.  While I was at it I inspected the Water pump mounting screws and found same issue so I replaced them as well.

Bilge level Switch
- I removed the bilge water level switch and inspected it - the seal around the wires was worn and it definitely looks like water got into the switch.  I replaced the switch with one from Whale (part number BE9003).  It appears to be an improved design where the wires are sealed with a compound and not a rubber gasket/grommet.  I remounted it with a longer / larger thread screw - hoping that that holds a little better.  The switch now works well.  I will closely monitor it to see if it lasts longer than the first, but my hope is that the new design is more robust.

I do have a concern that the bilge level switch mounting block is degraded (soft material - possibly water logged) as mentioned by Stephen Holgate, so I may need to replace it - I am just not sure how to remove the old one as it feels like it is mounted quite securely.  For now I am leaving it in place and will keep a close eye on it over the next sailing season.

[Quiddle]

I'm shamed by the technical solutions offered for the non floating float switch. I had this problem 2 yrs ago and dropped a wine cork,I happened to have to hand, beneath the switch as a 'temporary' measure, where it remains to this day providing full 'auto' function.