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Post by timpeacockuk on Oct 2, 2015 17:31:28 GMT
I have a 2010 42DS with holding tanks in both heads. Has anyone any bright ideas or advice on how to gauge when to book a pump out. I can just about see the water level in the front heads tank with a bright torch shone from above, but can see nothing through the main heads tank. The only option at present is trying to guess from the splashing or wait until the neighbours complain about the overflow pipe!
Ideally I would not want to drill more holes in the tank and also not spend huge amounts of cash. (Ever hopeful)!!
Many thanks
Tim Peacock
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Post by vasko on Oct 2, 2015 19:43:11 GMT
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Post by Tafika II on Oct 2, 2015 20:29:53 GMT
Our tanks are translucent white, so when you shine a flashlight against the sidewall of the tank you can see the levels.. Lo-tech but it works
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Post by alenka on Oct 2, 2015 21:23:57 GMT
On our 43DS we cannot see the aft heads holding tank but there is a very definite change in sound when flushing (Jabsco Liteflush) when it starts to reach capacity.
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Post by MalcolmP on Oct 3, 2015 6:37:22 GMT
Not cheap as Vasko mentions , but these: www.gobius.se/fmmarin/ can be fitted without holes. You can use your ears and tap the tank the noise is quite different if there is fluid or air, with practice you should be able to get a reasonable idea of where the level is A low tech option that might work is that on at least some Jeanneau's the pump out filler is connected by a straight pipe directly into the tank. Maybe not pleasant, but you can use a long dowel as a dip-stick... this trick is also good if you have blockage problems as the deck filler may well be directly above the outlet at the bottom of the tank (well that is the case for the 39i at least) I store my dowel (after cleaning  ) in the bimini |
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Post by rene460 on Oct 4, 2015 8:51:43 GMT
Your options for determining holding tank level are largely determined by the tank material and how it is installed.
Ours is translucent plastic and the level can be determined with a torch against the side as described by others above. Unfortunately the installation (Original factory fitout) involved enclosing the bottom two thirds in plywood, so the method is only possible when the tank is above around 3/4 full.
We recently installed a Vetus ultrasonic level gauge. It requires a hole in the tank but at least it is in the top surface. The jury is still out on whether it will meet our requirements. Initial observations are that it must be installed truly horizontal, otherwise the reflection path varies with the bouncing off the walls, giving spurious readings. So no use while sailing. We installed it on a wedge to account for the sloping top of the tank.
It seems that it will be enough for our purposes but it will take a few more trips to the boat before we are really sure how useful it is.
I will try and remember to post an update after Christmas when we have accumulated a bit more experience.
rene460
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Post by timpeacockuk on Oct 7, 2015 9:04:24 GMT
I think that I may have found a cheap answer, although not as comprehensive or 'flashy' as the £400 ultrasonic units. I have been looking at the small ultrasonic detectors that are designed for lpg gas tanks. They have a magnet to attach to the tank, (so obviously this would be of no benefit), but I have been advised that you can simply hold the unit against the tank and slide it up and down to find the level. I am told that they do read through plastic and would only give misreadings if there are any metal floats or similar in the tank. Information page can be found here. www.autogasleisure.co.uk/pdf/gaslevel.pdfThe company that I have spoken to, Autogas 2000 Ltd actually don't advertise the units as they have stopped selling them, but they do have several units of old stock that they are wanting to clear. I have bought one for under £20 including postage to UK. I am posting this in case anyone else wants to contact them before they sell out. Unfortunately I won't be able to test this until next year as we are down in Spain at the moment and our next trip won't be until Spring next year. The person I have been speaking to is Chris Wise cwise@autogas.co.uk Autogas 2000 Ltd Carlton Miniott Thirsk North Yorkshire YO7 4NJ Tel:-01845 523213 Fax:- 01845 526783 ....and no, I am not on commission! Tim Peacock |
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Post by windward54 on Oct 9, 2015 13:20:06 GMT
Another option is a Profile monitor system. The sensor foil attaches to the outside of any composite material tank and will read the level of the contents inside. I used on my previous boat, and they worked well. On this boat, I just have to shine a light and I can see the level. ferriellosales.com/Monitoring_Systems.htmlSame product, better website: www.scadtech.com/tank_monitors |
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Post by so40gtb on Oct 12, 2015 3:12:55 GMT
At the end, all of these measuring and monitoring approaches are all very nice, but mostly irrelevant. You need to pump out when the Admiral declares it so, which usually happens long before the tank is full. One can double tank capacity, as I did 2 years ago, and that makes no difference whatsoever!
--Karl
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 8:06:41 GMT
When your holding tanks become to full in the marina it is a signal you sail to little. So do more sailing and release the content in wider water (not the marina of course).
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Post by Stella Maris on Mar 2, 2016 13:30:12 GMT
Hi Alenka, how is the Jabsco Lite Flush toilet. I'm considering one for my main head but the reviews seem mixed.
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Post by Tafika II on Mar 2, 2016 15:44:23 GMT
Stella Maris,
We installed the Jabsco Lite Flush toilet in the forward head. Initially we had "splashing" problems when flushed. Called Jabsco and they had a recall & replaced the entire unit for free. I did not have to send the old one back. Installed the replacement and all has been OK since + I got a standby motor for free from the original one.
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Post by alenka on Mar 4, 2016 12:28:45 GMT
Hi Stella,
I have put a number of comments on forums re the Jabsco Liteflush.
The overall opinion from the cruising world it seems is that this is a very, very, unreliable unit. Broken belts being the main area of complaint followed closely with splash on flush.
Jabsco did not want to deal with my complaint at first (broken belt after just five weeks of use) but then sent me two belt kits free of charge. I am told that the new design uses alloy rather than nylon wheels in the pulley system and the belts are much stronger but I got the older nylon ones - Maybe they were getting rid of old stock hence the freebies.
It's great when it works but I don't trust it to keep going and we always have to close the lid to combat the splash back, which we didn't have for the first few weeks of use. We don't dispose of toilet tissue down the bowl anymore which was the main reason we bought it because the salesman said the macerator could cope.
All in all a disappointing experience for us. Jabsco know about the problems but won't admit to them which is also sad.
On reflection I wish we had paid the extra and gone with a vacuum system... Maybe on the next boat.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 4, 2016 15:26:16 GMT
I have a www.gobius.se/en/products/level-indicator-for-boats/ ready for me to take to the boat and install. I was recently thinking about one of the Jabsco electric upgrades as I understand that they use less water and therefore will fill the tank slower (is that true?), but then I remembered that the hose is smaller, so I need to figure out whats needed to change the pipe diameter. I'll wait until I'm onboard to figure it all out |
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Post by npmr on Mar 4, 2016 15:57:00 GMT
Another option is a Profile monitor system. The sensor foil attaches to the outside of any composite material tank and will read the level of the contents inside. I used on my previous boat, and they worked well. On this boat, I just have to shine a light and I can see the level. ferriellosales.com/Monitoring_Systems.htmlSame product, better website: www.scadtech.com/tank_monitorsI have just fitted, this winter, this system. Very easy and now, we have a remote check of build-up from the saloon, without burrowing in cockpit lockers or under bunks. I wish I'd known about this system when I fitted the gauge for the water tank! Miles easier. |
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Post by Mistroma on Mar 4, 2016 20:49:05 GMT
Never felt the need for anything more complicated than a light behind the tank on our 2009 42DS. I bought a stick on square LED panel for 3-4 Euro from a Chinese bazar in Spain. Just a matter of sticking it on the back of the tank, gluing a switch in place beside the tank and connecting to existing wiring via an additional in-line fuse.
If your 2010 42DS is similar to mine then there will be a spare power connector above the aft holding tank. It only took about 10 minutes to install. I simply pull the cover panel forwards and press the switch to see tank level. No chance of any leaks, quick, convenient, accurate and dirt cheap. I see that one other person also suggested an LED.
I don't know about the forward holding tank but expect it will also be translucent and have spare power inside the locker.
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Post by On y va on Mar 4, 2016 21:49:55 GMT
Just leave the black tank seacock open at all times. End of problem, no monitoring issues!
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Post by alenka on Mar 6, 2016 23:10:24 GMT
Just leave the black tank seacock open at all times. End of problem, no monitoring issues! Not really great idea if you are in a harbour or a close in anchorage. Got to confess that last year my live-and-let-live approach was almost pushed to breaking point when the boat moored next door (Vathi Harbour) pumped out four lots of nasty stuff in quick succession. Not nice when you are trying to have your breakfast on the back of your boat. If there had been a fifth I think I would have turned them in to the port police! |
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Post by On y va on Mar 7, 2016 14:03:24 GMT
Just leave the black tank seacock open at all times. End of problem, no monitoring issues! Not really great idea if you are in a harbour or a close in anchorage. Got to confess that last year my live-and-let-live approach was almost pushed to breaking point when the boat moored next door (Vathi Harbour) pumped out four lots of nasty stuff in quick succession. Not nice when you are trying to have your breakfast on the back of your boat. If there had been a fifth I think I would have turned them in to the port police! In a harbour I always use the harbour facilities........ But as I have been in charter for many years, I sort of have developed a phobia for blocked black water tanks. Which reminds me of a little story about a blocked black water tank of some years ago. It was a 150 litre unit on an Oyster 62 and it was blocked. So after all my attempts, in the end I called my diver and he investigated and poked around in the through hull fitting. But, Oysters nearly always have a 90 degree elbow after the seacock, so poking with a wire or stick was not very effective. He had a better idea. He needed a towel. He wrapped it around the hose of an extra bottle he had taken with him in the water and stuck it up the through hull fitting, using the towel to fill the space between hull fitting and hose. Then he abruptly opened the valve on the dive tank. Within two seconds of doing that, a hissing sound followed and at the same time, brown, rather smelly water spuwed out of the tank breathers, which are neatly incorpotated holes drilled into the stainless dorade protectors, now acting as mini jet engines. So litres of crap spuwed onto the beautiful teak decks and at the same time we saw the diver swimming away from the boat like he was chased by sharks, as 150 litres of tank sewage exploded out of the now unblocked tank! And this was in the middle of one of the poshest marinas in Palma de Mallorca! After having picked myself up from the deck from laughter, I had the clarity of mind to safe a little face of the rather embarrassed owner of this yacht, by quickly starting the engine and putting into reverse, thus blowing most of the caramel coloured water away from the boat into the marina channel (as the yacht was moored stern to). And within the next 3 minutes to owner and his wife left for a (very) early lunch. I have an even more graphic and better anekdote to do with a blocked black tank, in the same Oyster in fact......but that is so disgusting....maybe I should leave that out. |
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Post by hoppy on Mar 7, 2016 14:25:31 GMT
Many town quays around Greece lack any facilities other than those offered to yachties by some restaurants and bars. So it's nice to have a holding tank onboard, but I do need to hope the neighbours have the same. For me the best thing about the holding tank is that on a beautiful morning at anchor, I no longer need to delay my morning swim after waking and then answering a call of nature |
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Post by On y va on Mar 7, 2016 14:40:57 GMT
Yes, I do have a holding tank too, but never really use it. It is "fall through" one based on the lilo system (Last in, last out  ) so no 3 way valves. 3 way valves are about the crappiest inventions ever, especially when fitted onto a charter vessel. |
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Post by hoppy on Mar 7, 2016 15:19:27 GMT
I have no 3 way valve, it all goes through the tank. So it's just open or close the seacock.
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Post by Don Reaves on Mar 7, 2016 21:16:44 GMT
.... Which reminds me of a little story about a blocked black water tank of some years ago .... Thanks for your story. I haven't had such a good laugh in a long time. Where I sail, we don't have Y-valves or thru-hulls allowing you to dump the black water tank. Everything stays on board until you get to a pump-out facility. It can be a real nuisance having to locate one in an emergency, but you learn to plan ahead. |
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Post by zofiasailing on Mar 7, 2016 22:14:52 GMT
What a cracking story Onyva! In 8 years we've only needed to pump out 3 times and then only because we've recently spent extensive time in large inland bodies of water. We recently changed our joker valves and have noticed how much more effective the 'flush' has been, requiring significantly less sea water to 'wastefully' enter the holding tank. Wishing we'd done this so much sooner. Very much like the LED strip solution although tapping and torch have sufficed.  ? |
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Post by hoppy on Mar 8, 2016 5:28:03 GMT
.... Which reminds me of a little story about a blocked black water tank of some years ago .... Thanks for your story. I haven't had such a good laugh in a long time. Where I sail, we don't have Y-valves or thru-hulls allowing you to dump the black water tank. Everything stays on board until you get to a pump-out facility. It can be a real nuisance having to locate one in an emergency, but you learn to plan ahead. Is it a legal thing that prevents you having the through hull? |
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) in the bimini
) so no 3 way valves. 3 way valves are about the crappiest inventions ever, especially when fitted onto a charter vessel.
?