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Post by mred25234 on Mar 17, 2015 12:04:54 GMT
We have a single head JN 409 and we would like to convert it to fresh water flush. Has anyone done this?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by jlasail on Mar 17, 2015 18:02:42 GMT
I had it done on my SO 409, I have the 2 heads version. I did not do it myself butI don't remember if it was done at the factory or at the dealership. I will be on my boat this Thursday, is there anything in particular you'd like me to check?
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Post by sailbleu on Mar 18, 2015 6:47:57 GMT
We have a single head JN 409 and we would like to convert it to fresh water flush. Has anyone done this? Thanks in advance. Just wondering , ....why would you want to do that ? Regards |
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Post by mred25234 on Mar 18, 2015 11:46:53 GMT
I had it done on my SO 409, I have the 2 heads version. I did not do it myself butI don't remember if it was done at the factory or at the dealership. I will be on my boat this Thursday, is there anything in particular you'd like me to check? Thank you for your reply. If you could please look at the aft head and see what water line they tapped into. Thanks again. |
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Post by mred25234 on Mar 18, 2015 11:48:49 GMT
We have a single head JN 409 and we would like to convert it to fresh water flush. Has anyone done this? Thanks in advance. Just wondering , ....why would you want to do that ? Regards In both salt and fresh water a major source of odors in the raw water sitting in the inlet pipe. It contain organism that die and create the smell. |
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Post by MalcolmP on Mar 18, 2015 12:02:11 GMT
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Post by jlasail on Mar 18, 2015 13:14:10 GMT
To Sailbleu: I sail and intend to do so for many seasons in the Chesapeake bay only, meaning I am always close to a source of fresh water. I was also told by many people that that raw water in the toilet can generated smelly odors as Mred pointed out. In addition, Chesapeake waters (brakish) are not as clean as what you get in the open seas. If one day, I decide to venture outside the bay, I may reconnect it to sea water intake.
To mred I will check and take pictures when I get to the boat.
JL
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Post by Tafika II on Mar 18, 2015 15:10:34 GMT
Is your system electric or Manual? If electric, please make sure the pump is suitable for saltwater. We started out with one freshwater head aft, but added a switchover conversion to allow the use of saltwater when cruising. It a separate saltwater friendly Jabsco motor. You have to make sure your saltwater intake is 100% isolated from any possibility of it going into your freshwater supply tank. A double series of values works well.
We keep a simple post-it not on the bulkhead noting if the existing setup is fresh or saltwater hookup.
If on the saltwater system, we still dump freshwater into the bowl and flush thru the plumbing if we are leaving the boat for a few days.
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Post by dbostrom on Mar 18, 2015 19:50:14 GMT
By strange coincidence I've just finished converting the aft head on our 39i to fresh/salt selectable. Where our boat is used is mostly "no dump" which means that the extra smelliness of salt water flushing is an optional feature; if one must pump out, one can pump in at the same time.
Space Shuttle-style toilet forward retained for those prefer like bumpy, stinky, old-fashioned seagoing relief (and as well no electricity required).
New rig is a Raritan ME w/"Seafresh" option so certain possible issues such as back-contamination of fresh water supply have (hopefully) been engineered out of the picture. For some toilets it would be a cinch to add a solenoid valve and diaphragm pump for open source "seafresh" but the matter of where salt and fresh are selected and how they're kept separated is worth getting right.
The ME uses about 2 pints of water for a flush (factory default, is programmable).
[Edit: Addressing the original question, the toilet part of this was very easy. What was difficult ($$) was modifying the head platform for the footprint of the new loo; the original arrangement was highly Jabsco-specific which lead to nervous moments with a saw and a lot of faith being placed in "the fiberglass guy." If you're in Bellingham, Washington I can recommend a real artist in that department, thankfully.]
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Mar 19, 2015 15:33:48 GMT
Our (former) Tartan 33 did essentially this. The basin drain seacock was also the head's inlet as it was always under water. So one less seacock, and helpful when winterizing the head. Of course, there was the one time I found an eel had made it all the way to the top valve/gasket and jammed the pump.... |
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Post by so36idavid on Mar 20, 2015 3:15:58 GMT
My 36i came to us plumbed with fresh water flush. It's not something I would have thought to do but I really like it. I've never owned a boat whose head and holding tank didn't smell, it's great! I did get some smells and replaced the hoses which was pretty expensive but worked great. FYI I have the Jabsco electric head. I had an O-ring fail on the pump and had all kinds of trouble getting it all sealed up again. In the end I bought a new head which was pretty expensive and left me really fuming at Jabsco. So I would recommend a different brand. Any different brand  . |
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Post by sailbleu on Mar 20, 2015 5:52:19 GMT
I guess the fresh water flush requires a watermaker no ?
If you don't have one I would think it's not sustainable on anchorage , imagine 6 persons on board ?
It's not that I don't have a watermaker , but in a way I would regret using it just to flush the water away.
Regards
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Post by hoppy on Mar 20, 2015 8:00:54 GMT
I thought that it's what you dump into the toilet that makes the smell you should worry about |
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Post by J349er on Mar 21, 2015 17:18:45 GMT
My last two boats had heads connected to fresh water and it really helps. I am on the Chesapeake Bay... You gotta look at a couple things when connecting your head to fresh water:
- You want to make sure there is some kind of check-valve on the water line so, you don't contaminate your potable water. The Jabsco Quiet flush head has a water control solenoid valve with anti-siphon breaker that takes care of that.
- Depending on usage, you'll run out of fresh water sooner so, be savvy, use a bucket of water or add an additional water tank if that is a concern.
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Post by sailbleu on Mar 22, 2015 6:16:27 GMT
You could also flush with seawater and afterwards do a short fresh water rinse by means of the shower head that is usually around there somewhere.
But then I guess - if you have electrical toilets - you'll have to install a solenoid valve NO (normally open) in the seawater supply to close it while rinsing with fresh water.
Using the showerhead eliminates the possibility of contaminating the water supply.
Regards
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Post by Trevor on Mar 22, 2015 22:21:14 GMT
Sailbleu,
That is exactly what we do. If we are leaving the boat for a while we simply flush with fresh from the shower and it seems to work ok.
Regards,
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Post by jlasail on Mar 23, 2015 20:57:35 GMT
I had it done on my SO 409, I have the 2 heads version. I did not do it myself butI don't remember if it was done at the factory or at the dealership. I will be on my boat this Thursday, is there anything in particular you'd like me to check? Thank you for your reply. If you could please look at the aft head and see what water line they tapped into. Thanks again. mred, Here are some pictures, I am having trouble uploading them all , so I will do it in 2 or 3 messages. Pic1: location of where I believe the installer taped the water pipe for the toilets Pic2: pic of the tap. It is the bright blue pipe pic3: that same blue pipe is connected to the electrical valve which is activated by the electric switch of the toilet flush. The dark pipe goes to the toilet directly. Since my boat is still winterized, I am not 100% sure that this is indeed the mods they did (can't test), but I don't see what else it can be.    |
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Post by captbillh on Mar 27, 2015 15:07:42 GMT
jlasail,
I am having the conversion done at Riverside Marina for the forward head only. I will be going down to the Sassafras next month.
Where ar you all?
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Post by jlasail on Mar 27, 2015 15:17:32 GMT
My boat is located at Herrington Harbor Marina South, which is located about 30 minutes by car South of Annapolis, MD.
JL
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Post by mred25234 on Mar 27, 2015 18:49:05 GMT
Thank you for your reply. If you could please look at the aft head and see what water line they tapped into. Thanks again. Thank you very much for taking the time to take and post the photos. |
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Post by so40gtb on Mar 29, 2015 2:58:11 GMT
Can't resist this ... we Great Lakes sailors have fresh water flushing without modification!
Odor control on our boat is a matter of carefully applying Odor-Los to the holding tank and having a Raritan hose from head to holding hank. The Admiral has this down to a set procedure, which seems to work and other Admirals on our dock have adopted it.
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Post by dbostrom on Mar 29, 2015 6:41:17 GMT
Quick report on first excursion w/new Raritan loo with fresh/salt option. 3 nights out w/crew of 5 composed of three teenagers and two semi-senescent adults w/toilet set on "fresh" filled aft 22-gallon holding tank to something slightly less than 1/3rd full. Not sure of ratio of water to "raw material" in that tank but it's some kind of data point. Crew were encouraged to use whatever flushing option they preferred, from manual fill-flush button-pushing to fully automatic mode. I'm tempted to put a digital cycle counter on this thing but that way lies madness. Also tried feeding the monster an absurd amount of toilet paper just to see what would happen. Paper was gulped down with basically no noticeable difference in motor loading or speed over plain water. Quoting Lord Vader, "Impressive, most impressive." This dumping station is now fully operational.  So yeah, in extended operation this gizmo would be the equivalent of another crew member in terms of water consumption. On the other hand, if you have to pump out you're axiomatically where you can fill up. My initial impression is that total volume going into the tank is less w/the new toilet, so pumping out will be reduced even as fresh water consumption is increased. A wash, overall? PS: Being able to use fresh as opposed to filthy (Squalicum Harbor) water to flush with is nice. Water in the bowl can after all be notably opaque and equipped with its own smell depending on local conditions. I suspect there's some stealthy HT dump valve twisting at night in these here parts. |
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