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Post by hoppy on Jan 5, 2015 16:27:32 GMT
For a while I had been thinking about getting a new anchor and now I think I have found the one to get (perhaps) My Delta (16kg I believe) has mostly worked well and there have not been many occasions where I have found myself drifting. 90% of the times I have reset the anchor has been because I did not like where I positioned myself. I'm only really look at upgrading because I know that the new generation anchors are better with faster and stronger holding. I have on occasions looked at the Rocna & Mason but the roll bar just does not work with my removable bowsprit. But now Rocna has introduced a new anchor called the Vulcan which seems to have similar performance but no roll bar.  www.rocna.com/product-range/vulcanwww.rocna.com/the-film |
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Post by On y va on Jan 5, 2015 16:44:56 GMT
Remember hoppy, miracle anchors do not exist. In the end it is so many cm2 that dig into the ground. Ok the way how they do that may vary and will make some difference, but that´s it.
When you are cruising and the only thing you can rely on is your anchor: chain size/weight and weight of anchor is what counts. Not if it´s fancy design.
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Post by ianpowolny on Jan 5, 2015 17:42:25 GMT
If you like the name Vulcan how about one of these to go with the helicopter?   |
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Post by hoppy on Jan 5, 2015 18:05:00 GMT
Not looking for a miracle, just something incrementally better. Theres been enough "scientific" tests and anecdotal evidence that shows that the "next generation" anchors are better than the older designs. I think you are wrong on the "fancy design" aspect. The shape of the blade affects how the anchor digs in and how well it holds. A better designed anchor will dig in deeper and hold better than a similarly weighted and blade area older design. It seems to me that logically the concave blade design of many of the "next gen" anchors will be superior to the older convex blade design of the Delta, CQR etc and if it wasn't, then the "next gen" concave design "fad" would just fade away cruising.coastalboating.net/Seamanship/Anchoring/History.html |
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Post by hoppy on Jan 5, 2015 18:07:33 GMT
If you like the name Vulcan how about one of these to go with the helicopter? LOL It reminds me of a photo posted on FB the other day. My cousin was proudly posting about being at some USAF museum and in the background the only planes visible was a Mig and a Vulcan. Not very USAF |
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Post by MartyB on Jan 5, 2015 18:58:45 GMT
Weight and sq cm/inches are what will hold you. An aluminum anchor of equal to a steel seems to hold as well as a steel one of equal design, shape etc.
This new one does look interesting. I have only seen sales brochures, none in a store as of yet.
In the mean time, I will be sticking with my Bruce and a delta fastset.
There is one or two take apart anchors that look interesting.from what I would call a storm/ hurricane style. In that one does not need to keep a 30-40kg anchor on the bow, it breaks down so they can be kept in a storage locker below, bring up when you need the big boy, keep the 15-20kg anchor on the bow, so sailing ability is not as harmed.
Similar to what i do with my two. The 9 lb fastset is on the bow racing day sailing.etc, the 16 lb Bruce when I am overnight cruising etc and want a higher holding anchor. I've thought about a 25-30 lb version like this for when i need higher holding yet. You're sizing will be larger than I use for a 6500 lb 30' boat......but equal in resizing etc.
Marty
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Post by Damir on Jan 5, 2015 19:52:55 GMT
Hi Hoppy
First and foremost is to drop it the length of anchor chains least three depths beneath the ship 5 is better. It uses the chain and not the rope, because the chain has its own weight, which helps in anchoring. The greater the storm must extend the length of the chain should be lowered two anchors on a wider range. In this second case it may happen that the anchors wrap while turning the ship.
.
greeting
Damir
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Post by vasko on Jan 5, 2015 21:09:40 GMT
Interesting new design... as far as I have read only Manson is the new type which actually does a better job then the classics e.g. bruce type.. it looks to me that the trick is to find a good deal for Manson..
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Post by hoppy on Jan 5, 2015 21:27:59 GMT
Interesting new design... as far as I have read only Manson is the new type which actually does a better job then the classics e.g. bruce type.. it looks to me that the trick is to find a good deal for Manson.. Charles? |
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Post by abgreenbank on Jan 5, 2015 22:42:40 GMT
Well have flow in a Vulcan, around 35 years ago and have a Manson anchor does this mean I am qualified to make comments on old/new world anchors!
rgds
ab
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Post by vasko on Jan 5, 2015 23:08:18 GMT
Interesting new design... as far as I have read only Manson is the new type which actually does a better job then the classics e.g. bruce type.. it looks to me that the trick is to find a good deal for Manson.. Apologies !!! my mistake I meant Spade not Manson  |
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 6, 2015 5:08:56 GMT
For a while I had been thinking about getting a new anchor and now I think I have found the one to get (perhaps) My Delta (16kg I believe) has mostly worked well and there have not been many occasions where I have found myself drifting. 90% of the times I have reset the anchor has been because I did not like where I positioned myself. I'm only really look at upgrading because I know that the new generation anchors are better with faster and stronger holding. I have on occasions looked at the Rocna & Mason but the roll bar just does not work with my removable bowsprit. But now Rocna has introduced a new anchor called the Vulcan which seems to have similar performance but no roll bar.  www.rocna.com/product-range/vulcanwww.rocna.com/the-filmIf the performance of the new design equals that of the old one I would most certainly consider buying this one Hoppy. As you might know I replicaded the previous roll-bar model , fairly easy to do as it has next to the roll-bar only straight parts , the new one however is for a DIY nearly impossible to make considering the spoon-shape . But that is next to the point , these anchors are just terrific . I had a bruce (sheer nightmare) , then the CQR which was a huge improvement , now my homemade rocna , don't want anything else. Last summer at achorage on the Corsica east coast I had to endure one storm after another , and during one of them - with gusts peaking up to 9 and 10 beaufort - my chain broke . The anchor remained completely embedded , didn't move an inch . I was lucky to be able to retrieve it in clear water after I got some help from neighbours to set my spare anchor. Yes they (rocna) stand up to their reputation. And with the vulcan , ...your bowsprit will be ever so happy . So will Hoppy :-) Regards |
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Post by On y va on Jan 6, 2015 9:20:48 GMT
It´s the ever "I have this make anchor/propellor/engine/whatever" debate and what you have is best.
Take it from the pro´s who anchor in like Polar regions, Greenland or Patagonia, South Georgia etc, who have to anchor in 80 to 100 knot winds. Hardly any of them have Rocna´s or Mansons or any of these fancy anchors. As the design is not going to make the difference. What they do have is 60 or 80 kilo anchors (90% of them have either Bruce, CQR or Delta) on a 50 footer and 100 kilos on a 60 footer, with 100 or more metres of heavy chain.
But, whatever anchor you get, get the next size up, pref 2 sizes up. And for those who believe paying many hundreds of euros more for a swoosh design anchor: have fun!
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Post by iancymru on Jan 6, 2015 11:49:29 GMT
This is fine if you have a vessel that can cope with all that weight then is probably the best way to go. But if you do not want to/ or cannot carry that weight then a high holding power anchor is the only way to compensate and these modern anchors are that, I have done a few tests myself comparing a Bruce, Delta, Danforth and a light weight Fortress anchor and I was really surprised the Fortress far exceeded the others at a fraction of the weight (and price i.e. more expensive)). I have a Delta as main and keep the Fortress as a back up (purely as Delta is self launching from the cockpit).
Ian
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Post by erkan on Jan 6, 2015 13:15:01 GMT
Dear Hoppy, Pls check the below link as an alternative to your anchor list. It is very popular in Turkish waters. I believe/hope you can find it in Europa. There is a video about its performance in their web site. I used it in my previous boat -Bene cyclades 39- and it was very satisfactory. Best Regards, Erkan www.ultramarine.com.tr/ Attachment Deleted |
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Post by On y va on Jan 6, 2015 13:17:23 GMT
Ian, if you are a cruiser and depend on your anchor and you have a 40 ft boat, like topic starter (or me) and you look at what the manufacturers recommend, it's 16kgs.
So, I am saying go for at least 20 or pref 22 or 24 kilos with 60m of 10mm chain. This is perfectly feasible on a 40ft Jeanneau and will give you a lot more piece of mind when anchoring and the type of anchor becomes much less important.
But, as always: do what u like. It's not my boat!
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Post by vasko on Jan 6, 2015 13:58:39 GMT
This is fine if you have a vessel that can cope with all that weight then is probably the best way to go. But if you do not want to/ or cannot carry that weight then a high holding power anchor is the only way to compensate and these modern anchors are that, I have done a few tests myself comparing a Bruce, Delta, Danforth and a light weight Fortress anchor and I was really surprised the Fortress far exceeded the others at a fraction of the weight (and price i.e. more expensive)). I have a Delta as main and keep the Fortress as a back up (purely as Delta is self launching from the cockpit). Ian Fortress - really not sure from where the good name of Fortress is coming from - last summer in Greece ( Serifos island) in 35knts wind I tried the Fortress as a second anchor as I was worried to stay on only one anchor and the Fortress was completely useless - really completely useless in "theory" it should bite and stay but NO it doesn't hold at all... after 5 tries to set it properly I gave up and stayed only only on my main anchor SQR - 15kg - on a 40 foot boat - I will never believe in Fortress again.. better with Danforth at least it not crazy expensive |
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Post by hoppy on Jan 6, 2015 14:01:34 GMT
It´s the ever "I have this make anchor/propellor/engine/whatever" debate and what you have is best. Take it from the pro´s who anchor in like Polar regions, Greenland or Patagonia, South Georgia etc, who have to anchor in 80 to 100 knot winds. Hardly any of them have Rocna´s or Mansons or any of these fancy anchors. As the design is not going to make the difference. What they do have is 60 or 80 kilo anchors (90% of them have either Bruce, CQR or Delta) on a 50 footer and 100 kilos on a 60 footer, with 100 or more metres of heavy chain. But, whatever anchor you get, get the next size up, pref 2 sizes up. And for those who believe paying many hundreds of euros more for a swoosh design anchor: have fun! The newer designs do improve on the anchors ability to set by rolling them over, just in the way that the Delta improved on the CQR. Differences in the blade design will affect the ability of the anchor to dig in and ultimately the holding power. Of course the anchor design is only part of the whole equation. To think it is a magic bullet is a mistake just as closing you mind to the new design. The "pro's" you refer to have setup their anchoring already to hold them in those conditions and as the new design is only going to add an incremental benefit that is not likely to justify the expense of an upgrade unless they were already planning to go a size or two bigger anyway. Jimmy Cornell built a new boat and chose Rocna for it www.rocna.com/news/jimmy-cornell-selects-rocna BTW at Westmarine a new Rocna is $20 more expensive than a Delta whilst the Manson is another $100. Not exactly break the bank pricing |
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Post by hoppy on Jan 6, 2015 14:24:18 GMT
Dear Hoppy, Pls check the below link as an alternative to your anchor list. It is very popular in Turkish waters. I believe/hope you can find it in Europa. There is a video about its performance in their web site. I used it in my previous boat -Bene cyclades 39- and it was very satisfactory. Best Regards, Erkan www.ultramarine.com.tr/View AttachmentOuch.... As it seems to be only available in stainless, the pricing is very nasty. |
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Post by iancymru on Jan 6, 2015 18:03:17 GMT
Vasko very interesting and shows we all got differing experiences of the various anchors perhaps thats why so many shapes and sizes. I have used the Fortress a lot on my previous boat although not in extreme weather or on a rocky bottom but will bear your experience in mind if the need arises.
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Post by Don Reaves on Jan 6, 2015 20:03:22 GMT
Fortress - really not sure from where the good name of Fortress is coming from - last summer in Greece ( Serifos island) in 35knts wind I tried the Fortress as a second anchor as I was worried to stay on only one anchor and the Fortress was completely useless - really completely useless in "theory" it should bite and stay but NO it doesn't hold at all... after 5 tries to set it properly I gave up and stayed only only on my main anchor SQR - 15kg - on a 40 foot boat - I will never believe in Fortress again.. better with Danforth at least it not crazy expensive It's very tempting to get into this discussion, but I'm going to pass. Except to say that some anchors do very well in some bottoms and very poorly in others. The Fortress is one. There are some bottoms that it's lightweight design just doesn't penetrate. But in other bottoms, it's a very good choice. Don |
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Post by vasko on Jan 6, 2015 20:27:58 GMT
The story happened on Serifos island (cyclades) Livadi Bay , meltemi was blowing hard , bottom is sand and I was expecting my very expensive Fortress £400+ to hold very well , but got very disappointed and I do not believe if alu anchors anymore no matter what the adverts and videos show...
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 7, 2015 4:54:18 GMT
Fortress - really not sure from where the good name of Fortress is coming from - last summer in Greece ( Serifos island) in 35knts wind I tried the Fortress as a second anchor as I was worried to stay on only one anchor and the Fortress was completely useless - really completely useless in "theory" it should bite and stay but NO it doesn't hold at all... after 5 tries to set it properly I gave up and stayed only only on my main anchor SQR - 15kg - on a 40 foot boat - I will never believe in Fortress again.. better with Danforth at least it not crazy expensive
Except to say that some anchors do very well in some bottoms and very poorly in others. The Fortress is one. There are some bottoms that it's lightweight design just doesn't penetrate. But in other bottoms, it's a very good choice. Don Right you are Don. It's a never ending debate I hope I will never lose my (copy) Rocna , that's why I usually use a retrieval buoy , but in case I do  , I would surely know what would be the replacement for it. As for the fortress , they do get good comments in neutral tests , a few months ago I could lay my hands on the FX37 secondhand and yet never used for only a 100 Euro . Will deploy it as a stern anchor or kedge as they say. www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/independent-performance-testing.phpbillspringer.blogspot.be/2011/03/which-anchor-holds-best-14-anchors-are.html#!/2011/03/which-anchor-holds-best-14-anchors-are.html newcontent.westmarine.com/content/documents/pdfs/WestAdvisor/2006-Anchor-Tests.pdfThe list is long. Regards |
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Post by MartyB on Jan 7, 2015 14:56:23 GMT
I've found if a danforth will not work, neither will a fortress.
I do agree, one needs the anchor designed for.the task. Be it a 2lb coffee can with concrete and an eye bolt as i used with an 8' pram as a teen fishing out of it, a danforth equal design, or what ever your choosing.
One thing thE seems to come up, is more rode to depth, the better you are in higher winds. Be it chain or a rope or combo. Generally speaking, if over 50 units, any rode, be it chain or rope, it is the anchor holding you. Both are off the sub surface.
Marty
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Post by chuckr on Jan 7, 2015 15:19:21 GMT
one of the things you did specify was your chain and rode. the other is the ratio of rode to water depth. now please do not flog me too much on this, but one of the things we have noted of european sailors, whether in the usa, carribbean or med, is the short scope they use.
we use a 40lb delta with 150' of 10mm chain followed by 250' of 5/8" rode. never needed that much as the deepest we have anchored is 40' and we generally try for 7 to 1 scope. now that depends a bit on the wx and the protetion we have. in a couple of big blows we have had out 10 to 1. in some lite winds and great protection we have had 5 to 1.
in 8 years we have dragged once and the anchor reset itself and we dropped a bunch more scope. we did want a rocna before we left but they were only sold in the usa by internet so we went with a delta.
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