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Post by sailbleu on Dec 15, 2014 10:21:34 GMT
I've posted this question on a major US board but no respons sofar , I thought I'll give it a try here.
I was thinking of making my own flopper stopper , been reading/hearing good reviews on the rock 'n roll (magma) and have a few questions about the size of the wings.
Magma "Rock 'n Roll"™ Boat Stabilizer / The Mad Dogs, Exploring to Inspire...™
Apparantly each wing is about 27cm high , but would there be a technical or efficiency-wise obstruction/counterargument of making the wings bigger ?
Meaning , bigger is better , but I'm not quite sure if that's the case in this case.
I was just thinking that bigger flaps would need more distance (rise) to unfold , and thus reduce the dampening effect.
So the main question is , are the ratio's of the rock 'n roll sizes scientifically determined and therefor crucial , or is it a compromise between the use of material (read the price of it) - in this case stainless steel - and still have a sufficient dampening ?
If the last were to be true than there should not be an objection to enlarge the flaps ,...or do I miss something here ?
Thanks
Beste regards
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Post by MalcolmP on Dec 15, 2014 11:40:55 GMT
Sailbleu As always, an interesting idea, I have wondered about these as well as we like to anchor, but concerned about storage size etc The magma website states" For boats up to 40,000 lbs. displacement one Rock 'n Roll Boat Stabilizer is recommended. For boats over 40,000 lbs. or in situations where more stabilization is required we recommend two stabilizers." as it is so generic I doubt if the dimensions are critical. I was surprised there is no video evidence (I could find) on their website or elsewhere of their effectiveness Quick Google came up with these alternatives: www.primefabrication.com/products/roll_stabilizers.htmlseems to be same design as the Magma but different dimensions also a not so neat one: there is also an interesting Korean conical design, looks bulky but the videos are impressive: viva99kim.blogspot.co.uk/ and catherinetoddarchitecture.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/floating-body-stabilizer.htmlMalcolm |
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 15, 2014 13:05:13 GMT
Hi Malcolm ,
when we passed the isle of Elba (Napoleon's old neighbourhood) this summer I noticed an anchored Grand banks , US flag , with a pole on each side , immediatly thought about the rock 'n roll and checked up on the skipper . He had two magma's out and told me he was delighted with the system.
Personally I got our rolling down by using a cone-shaped drag anchor/chute. Made some diagonal cross supports to keep the top open . It worked , but it was a hell of a job getting it on board again. Not just that , but the cone itself prevented the improvised flopper stopper to sink down rapidly every time the boat rolled over to that side. This way I missed a part of the counter action when the roll reversed.
The frame shape stopper was the old system , effective but big. The hinged flopper stopper is also ok and for storage even better.
I have all the parts here , already made the angles on the wings and got the sharp edges off . Will weld the s/s hinges on and I guess I'll finish up this week , take some pics for the board and ask a relative to give it a test in one of the Antwerp docks . Will give feedback on the testresults and if given a green light it will be part of my boat equipment starting next summer.
The unit weigh around 10kg -20 pounds .
Regards
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Post by hoppy on Dec 15, 2014 17:10:17 GMT
"flopper stopper" sounds like you are trying to make your own bleu pill, and the 27cm boast seems either excessive, imaginary or something to be very proud of  |
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Post by tedp on Dec 15, 2014 17:44:49 GMT
Tie a bucket to the boom so it just breaks the surface, turn the boom outboard as far as it will reach, make sure the bucket is full of water and see what happens. 10 to 1 the rolling will be much reduced.
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 15, 2014 19:59:43 GMT
"flopper stopper" sounds like you are trying to make your own bleu pill, and the 27cm boast seems either excessive, imaginary or something to be very proud of Hoppy , no way man , I'm just your average 6 inch sixpack Joe . However , still alive and kicking you know  But euhhhhhh Hoppy,.........partying again ??   Regards |
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Post by hoppy on Dec 15, 2014 20:10:51 GMT
"flopper stopper" sounds like you are trying to make your own bleu pill, and the 27cm boast seems either excessive, imaginary or something to be very proud of Hoppy , no way man , I'm just your average 6 inch sixpack Joe . However , still alive and kicking you know But euhhhhhh Hoppy,.........partying again ?? Regards No need for chemical help for a wild imagination |
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Post by sitara on Dec 15, 2014 20:43:08 GMT
The Seabrake drouge (http://www.seabrake.com/) lists boat stabilization as one of its features, when suspended outboard from the end of the boom. I like the idea of being able to use the one piece of equipment for more than one use. It has a very good reputation as a drouge as well. I don't have one yet but it is on the wish list for next year.
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 16, 2014 6:19:48 GMT
Tie a bucket to the boom so it just breaks the surface, turn the boom outboard as far as it will reach, make sure the bucket is full of water and see what happens. 10 to 1 the rolling will be much reduced. Been there ,all done that , all tried it Ted , not that effective you know. I even used the dinghy as anti-swell device , it helps , but not to that extend to satisfy the lady present. I did buy an alu fortress a few months ago , will be taken it to Sicily next month when I return for a fortnight , fix it somewhere and use it as a kedge the coming season. Regards |
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 16, 2014 6:51:07 GMT
The Seabrake drouge (http://www.seabrake.com/) lists boat stabilization as one of its features, when suspended outboard from the end of the boom. I like the idea of being able to use the one piece of equipment for more than one use. It has a very good reputation as a drouge as well. I don't have one yet but it is on the wish list for next year. Don't get your hopes up too high Sitara. The downward volume is too big you know , it creates friction and prevents the drag to go down all the way , I noticed that everytime when deployed . No matter how heavy you make it , and even that has its limits as you can imagine. That's where the rock 'n roll distinguishes itself from all the other devices , it has its own weight which is in proportion to the volume (closed wings on the way down) very considerable. Therefor I expect the boom line to be under tension at all times , resulting in immediate brake-mode when the FS (flopper stopper) is going up And storage-wise the magma FS cannot be beaten is it not. Regards |
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Post by MalcolmP on Dec 20, 2014 18:54:26 GMT
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Post by tedp on Dec 21, 2014 0:18:09 GMT
There is an easy alternative which may work better than the bucket or the dinghy attached to the boom. In a shallow swell, I often use a spring tied on the anchor cable, fixed to a stern cleat. Hauling in on the spring will turn the boat with its bows facing the swell. This stops a rolling action and only leaves a pitch. It takes a bit of experimenting. Having the boat meet the swell at an angle will often be enough to ensure a quiet night's sleep.
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Post by sailbleu on Dec 21, 2014 7:00:05 GMT
Malcolm , you give me too much credit  , and thanks for also joining the magma club :-). All in all a fair price I would say , shipment and customs included . Sounds ok. Well , I'm just using some leftovers and stuff I could lay my hands on in the past . The only thing I had to buy were the hinges. My home supplier Aliexpress helped me out with that ever so cheap again. Welded them on yesterday and also made the 4 attachment lines , thin (6mm) s/s cable with reinforced eye-ends so no chafing will bother me. I intend to install a damper of some sort in between the top ring and the boom-line to soften/ease the shocks . I've read that in a heavy swell they can really rock your rigging . Will be welding the 4 flap-rings on today and try to clean up the bended flap-tops. I don't have a bending table of that size and improvised a bit with the workmate. Not really satisfied with it but I'm sure it will do the job . Took some pics along the way. And with some help of my wife a bag was made to store and carry the FS ,verry handy indeed. Please share your findings on the use of the FS , I know coming from you they will be objectively. I will do the same once I've experimented with mine. ted , yes , I'm aware of the principle to reduce the rolling by attaching a stern line to the anchorchain , never implemented it though . But what I've been hearing about it , is that it doesn't work that well in a heavy swell. It's not just that , in an emergency ( anchor dragging near the shore) it could become a complicated situation hauling the anchor in , no ?? Of course it remains to be seen if our magma FS is man enough to deal with a full size swell. Setting a kedge also has some drawbacks for sure , especially in crowded anchorages. Regards |
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Post by dbostrom on Dec 21, 2014 9:03:00 GMT
I can't help but wonder about the loads imposed on the boom by a stabilizing device. Has anybody worked that out in numbers? What's the situation at the attachment of the topping lift, kicker etc. depending on the exact configuration?
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Post by MalcolmP on Jan 3, 2015 18:16:57 GMT
My shiny new Flopper Stopper arrived today all the way from California - posted 23rd December - so really good service.
All looks very well made,and thought out, even has a good storage bag - not sure why it needs mirror finished s/s - maybe so the fishes can see their make-up?
Will experiment with it in the next couple of months - if the current windy weather subsides.
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 4, 2015 5:59:59 GMT
My shiny new Flopper Stopper arrived today all the way from California - posted 23rd December - so really good service. All looks very well made,and thought out, even has a good storage bag - not sure why it needs mirror finished s/s - maybe so the fishes can see their make-up? Will experiment with it in the next couple of months - if the current windy weather subsides. It sells better when it's shiny Malcolm. But the shine doesn't come for free , I can tell you  Just waiting for some small eye-bolts to arrive and my FS will be bagged also , ready to fly in 10 days time. ? Is the connection of the 4 straps on your FS made in a solid way, because i've read some people change that ? No chafing possible ? They use ropes don't they ? Could you help me out with some additional info Malcolm ? I was wondering how Magma stops the FS from flipping over . I mean , is there a restriction on how far the flaps can open ? I would guess there is , it's very hard to see on the official pics . Could it be that underneath some small flaps prevent to FS to fold completely open ?? Regards |
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Post by MalcolmP on Jan 4, 2015 9:25:26 GMT
It sells better when it's shiny Malcolm. But the shine doesn't come for free , I can tell you Just waiting for some small eye-bolts to arrive and my FS will be bagged also , ready to fly in 10 days time. ? Is the connection of the 4 straps on your FS made in a solid way, because i've read some people change that ? No chafing possible ? They use ropes don't they ? Could you help me out with some additional info Malcolm ? I was wondering how Magma stops the FS from flipping over . I mean , is there a restriction on how far the flaps can open ? I would guess there is , it's very hard to see on the official pics . Could it be that underneath some small flaps prevent to FS to fold completely open ?? Regards Just taken the following photos. Yes there are two small flaps that stop the hinge opening beyond about 125 degrees - The first picture shows it fully open. 2nd photo shows the small (about 15mm) flaps The connections are through drilled holes with quite solid plastic inserts. The ropes go through and are crimped (photo 3) - they are also in plastic tube sleeves (you can just see in first photo) they do seem to be clear of the edges, so I don't think (hope..) they will chafe - but having s/s wires would be better - If I get a problem i will retrofit s/s wire There is just a hole with the plastic insert for fixing the recovery line - I will need to make sure that is well attached...    |
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 4, 2015 16:45:42 GMT
Oh boy Malcolm , it looks like a gem , I had to put on my sunglasses  not to get blinded . Thanks for posting the pics and explanation. Regards |
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Post by MalcolmP on Jan 4, 2015 16:59:15 GMT
Oh boy Malcolm , it looks like a gem , I had to put on my sunglasses not to get blinded . Thanks for posting the pics and explanation. Regards You are lucky though, it could have been worse as I had to be careful with those photos - several had a horrid reflection of yours truly, which I am sure no one would like to see |
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 4, 2015 17:22:27 GMT
Oh noooooo , not modern dr Jekyll and mr Hyde episode I hope. Regards |
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Post by MalcolmP on Apr 9, 2015 10:23:11 GMT
Well tried the new kit out in Swanage bay last week - overall I think good - not perfect, but then not sure quite what I expected, but we convinced ourselves it helped - could see it working that's for sure. think that another on the other-side would probably make more impact   |
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Post by sailbleu on Jun 8, 2015 7:36:12 GMT
i just thought of leaving some feedback with regards to this topic. One word ,......awesome. Yesterday I 've done my first setup of the diy flopperstopper , not to mention the real name again in case of patents and all. This piece of equipment is the real deal gentlemen and ladies ofcourse , it works perfect , although not yet tried in heavy swell , the corrections are substantial. It really reduces the rolling and I'm sure one on each side will make the difference for a good nights sleep or seeing the lady of the manner with a long face the next morning. And you know what , size matters The bigger the better , storage will be the limitation I guess  Maybe you 'll notice it in the picture , I use a block at the end of the beam , but will experiment with a fixed line also . i yet have add a retrieval line and see if this gets the FS out of the water without having it crash into the hull.  The flaps react immediatly when the boat rolls over and dampen the movement It's as fast as a switchblade knife , and you really feel it counteract. For those who don't have the tools or time to make one yourself , this is an absolute worth while investment. Regards Ps: Location is Linosa , 60 nm south-west of Malta. Cristalclear sea , nice diving too . |
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Post by hoppy on Jun 8, 2015 8:20:09 GMT
i just thought of leaving some feedback with regards to this topic. One word ,......awsome. Yesterday I 've done my first setup of the diy flopperstopper , not to mention the real name again in case of patents and all. This piece of equipment is the real deal gentlemen and ladies ofcourse , it works perfect , although not yet tried in heavy swell , the corrections are substantial. It really reduces the rolling and I'm sure one on each side will make the difference for a good nights sleep or seeing the lady of the manner with a long face the next morning. And you know what , size matters The bigger the better , storage will be the limitation I guess Maybe you 'll notice it in the picture , I use a block at the end of the beam , but will experiment with a fixed line also . i yet have add a retrieval line and see if this gets the FS out of the water without having it crash into the hull. The flaps react immediatly when the boat rolls over and dampen the movement It's as fast as a switchblade knife , and you really feel it counteract. For those who don't have the tools or time to make one yourself , this is an absolute worth while investment. Regards Ps: Location is Linosa , 60 nm south-west of Malta. Cristalclear sea , nice diving too . What's the point if it causes your boat to capsize? |
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Post by hoppy on Jun 8, 2015 8:21:38 GMT
Perhaps it will work better in Australia
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Post by dnickj on Jun 8, 2015 13:23:23 GMT
blimy - it works so well that even when the world turns upside down you boat sticks to the water
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, and thanks for also joining the magma club :-).
not to get blinded .