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Post by vasko on Nov 3, 2014 18:06:21 GMT
Hello, I had the same idea like you staying about a week on anchor around Mallorce and Ibiza -as marinas are crazy expensive. ( I keep my boat in Alicante) for this I've installed : 1/ total house batteries bank- 440ah ( additional 3 deepcycle) x 110ah batteries 2/ watermaker Kytadin 80E (12L/h ) ( consumes about 8ah - 10h a day) 3/ 250W solar panels with MPPT controller other things to consider : 4/ my alternator is 50amp 5/ we run the fridge ( ice cold and hudge) 24/7 - about 5ah average 6/ we use a lot of electronics - 4 x mobile phone, LED TV , 3 x IPad, Mifi Internet 3G, 1x MacBook Pro 7/ I have a NASA battery meter installed - in brief my consumtion is really high result : 1/ I still can handle about 48h without running the engine at all 2/ in practice around the balearics you always run the engine about 2-3 hours a day if you move to another place which happens for me every 1-2 days and this is enough to keep the batteries charged to abot 80-90% price/dificulty of upgrade 1/ the most difucult part is to install the additional batteries - IT IS NOT EASY ! every try to do something not proper leads to buying a new battery if you are lucky or all batteries if you are unlucky ! learned this on the hard way... you need to find space for the batteries close to the original one - this will simplefy everything a lot ( in my case the additional 3 x 110ah are at the bow close to the bowthruster and this overcomplicated everything enoumously) you need to decouple every single battery from the others ( charging and discharging channel) with powerfull diods !!! you need to make sure that you master switch actually controls the additional batteries too you need to make sure that your alternator can handle the total battery capacity on your boat ( this includes the starter one) - e.g. alternator need to be >= 10% of the total battery power on the boat you need to make sure that your mains charger actually can handle your current consumtion + 4% on the house bank - or you will not get anycharging when you are on shorepower and if you don't do it most likley your charge fuse will blow everytime you try to charge on shorepower and the battery bank is emty to 40% you need to install ( if you do not already have) a safty for discharging which prevent the battery bank to be disgarged less then 10.5v for exmaple too - very usefull not be forced to buy new batteries whne someone forget some big consumer on and discharge the batteries to 0%... for this setup you are looking for parts around batteries etc. to about £1500 + seriouse hard work from yourself or a lot more for parts ( reselled to you from someone engineer + his time around 100EUR/h in reallity - they usually charge 50/h but has worked about 1/3 - 1/3 of teh claime dtime conclusion : if you do not find fun in improving your boat yourself and enjoing new electric and electornic things ( like I do) - better do not touch anything and just buy one of this : Hyundai HY2000SEi with the remote key start put it somewhere at the stern - best place is actually inside the dingy and dinghy on the davits and enjoy your time on the boat instead enjoyng your time improving the boat - having the generator will give you chance to install a 12-16000 BTU aircon which helps greatluy with the wife/girlfriend
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Post by vasko on Nov 3, 2014 18:15:32 GMT
forgot to mention that I upgraded my fridge control to electronic control - and it made a HUGE differnec in the consumtion in hot(med) weather about 40% less consumption compared to the old standard control... e.g. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141296901965
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Post by ianpowolny on Nov 4, 2014 13:38:20 GMT
Vasko, a great read and I love the conclusion. We'll be near you next year so there's a beer on me for this post. Ian
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Post by aussieodyssey on Nov 7, 2014 20:03:58 GMT
Sailbleu
A very interesting setup you have with the generator . I would like some more info on the exhaust and the cooling for it . Sorry for the Hijack .
Greg
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Post by chuckr on Nov 8, 2014 9:57:48 GMT
I can only tell you what works for us. We are full time liveaboards and have been for over 7 years. We bought our Jeanneau DS 40 new so outfitted her as we wanted her. We have 6 6volt lead acid batteries with 2 130w and 1 135w solar panels and we use to have a 150amp alternator until an great electrican in the Caribbean managed to burn it and we replaced it this past fall with a 90amp alternator.
We have a Katdyna watermaker that makes 3.5gal per hour and we used it extensively in the Caribbean and it was more than sufficient for us if we ran it an hour so everyday and it only used 8 amps or so. In the Med it is pickled and we see little reason to run it at least so far.
In the Carib we spent most of our time on the hook and were rarely in a marina and our solar did the job as long as i did not spend too much time on the computer (a bit of humor). We had a few times when we had to start the engine to charge the batteries and those were when we had a lot of cloudy days in a row. This summer our 150amp alternator quit twice and we relied on the solar panels exclusively for a number of day and finally had to get a new alternator.
We put our solar panels above the bimini and we have room for one more as soon as we can find one as our mppt controller can handle an additional panel.
We took a hard look at wind and decided against it for 2 reasons. First it takes a bit of wind to get anything out of them and on the anchor we prefer to anchor where there is not a lot of wind. Second we took a hard look at the cost of wind vs the cost of diesel and it was not cost effective to put wind on. The cost benefit favored diesel.
Oh we do not have a freezer but we did put on a huge cold box in our reefer in Cartegena Colombia. But surprising it draws actually less than the small one as once the reefer got cold it takes less to keep it cold due the size of it.
And by the way we sailed across the Atlantic in 2013 and it took 21 days and we used less than 15gal of diesel and most of that was outside of Horta when we had no wind. Our solar panels kept everything charged and running from the a/p, to all insturments, to our ssb that we used 2x a day for wx to lights; everything.
We will see how we do this next summer when we hopefully sail Greece. And yes i wish i had the 150amp alternator back just for the peace of mind. we may get it rebuilt and reinstall it.
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Post by sailbleu on Nov 8, 2014 10:20:49 GMT
Sailbleu A very interesting setup you have with the generator . I would like some more info on the exhaust and the cooling for it . Sorry for the Hijack . Greg Greg , you're welcome to PM me. Will share all the info you need (and that I have of course) Regards
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Post by johnheaslip on Oct 14, 2016 10:59:51 GMT
Have a 50DS which is basically a stretched 45. Decided to have lots of everything , standard generator, back up honda eu20i, 2 battery chargers, a 60 amp and a 2.5 kW inverter combi that has a 80 amp charger, the 75hp yanmar now has a 125amp alt with a grooved belt, so fitted an alt to batt charger that makes it produce 125amp for longer, and fitted a victron battery moniter. Added 3 115amp hr batteries which can run auto pilot, elec winches, led lights, fridge and freezer, microwave and induction hob for 24 hours when battery moniter indicates around 70%, but does need more than 2 hours of generator or engine to recharge, generally charge every 12 hours. But when charging can make around 70 litres of water per hour, with my DIY watermaker (cat 237 pump 3 phase 1.5hp elec motor run by a Variable frequency drive, so can also run from inverter in emergency, 3 phase very low starting current, VFD says 6 amps. Could only get 21 inch pressure vessels in my carry on luggage so only 70 litres but the pump has capacity to run 2 40 inch pressure vessels which would be around 130 litres per hour. have 4 100w flexible solar panels and victron mppt still to install its probably overkill but with 36k btu air con, I ain't camping. rgrds ab
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Post by johnheaslip on Oct 14, 2016 11:00:18 GMT
Have a 50DS which is basically a stretched 45. Decided to have lots of everything , standard generator, back up honda eu20i, 2 battery chargers, a 60 amp and a 2.5 kW inverter combi that has a 80 amp charger, the 75hp yanmar now has a 125amp alt with a grooved belt, so fitted an alt to batt charger that makes it produce 125amp for longer, and fitted a victron battery moniter. Added 3 115amp hr batteries which can run auto pilot, elec winches, led lights, fridge and freezer, microwave and induction hob for 24 hours when battery moniter indicates around 70%, but does need more than 2 hours of generator or engine to recharge, generally charge every 12 hours. But when charging can make around 70 litres of water per hour, with my DIY watermaker (cat 237 pump 3 phase 1.5hp elec motor run by a Variable frequency drive, so can also run from inverter in emergency, 3 phase very low starting current, VFD says 6 amps. Could only get 21 inch pressure vessels in my carry on luggage so only 70 litres but the pump has capacity to run 2 40 inch pressure vessels which would be around 130 litres per hour. have 4 100w flexible solar panels and victron mppt still to install its probably overkill but with 36k btu air con, I ain't camping. rgrds ab
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Post by vasko on Oct 14, 2016 11:37:00 GMT
Install as much as possible solar panels - minimum 500w better 700-800w forget about windgen if you are not in windy part of the Med - Greece and Spain are not windy for example. Minimum 800ah for wet/gel battery and minimum 400ah if LiFePo4 - and mandatory mppt controller for the solar
Any changes of what I state to less will mean a lot running engine
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Post by Mistroma on Oct 16, 2016 21:57:35 GMT
Glad to see others saying Honda in anchor locker is a bad idea. Even putting it there to run and storing elsewhere has problems with cooling and ventilation. We sometimes lug ours to the bow and run it as you can barely hear it below and not at all from the cockpit (as long as you are only running the battery charger). However, we usually just run it on the stern as it isn't exactly deafening.
1) Alternator upgrade Not much point as others have said as you would get little, if any, benefit without going to AGM batteries and some sort of charge booster, I bought a 110A alternator as a spare and have never bothered to swap it with the standard 80A version on my 42DS.
2) Wind Save your money for more solar, better regulator etc. I have a Rutland 913 from time I used to keep the boat on a mooring in Scotland. It always averaged about 10Ah/day over the summer and that fell to about 7Ah/day in France & Spain. It is useful sometimes but I wouldn't buy another if it failed. 3) Solar You have obviously realised that this is the best value option. Rigid panels are the best value and a stern arch is the best location. However, even badly located panels are worth fitting. We have 145W (1x65W + 2x40W rigid panels) just ahead of the sprayhood and get about 60-65Ah/day most days in June/July (up to 75Ah/day if I move the boom around and slide the panels out to one side on a really good day).
I fitted a 100W Lensun semi-flexible to the awning this year.
I don't think it performs as well as the rigid panels but was worth fitting. I suspect that the output curve has more of a peak than the rigid panels and so output is low with a PMW regulator. It seems to behave more like a 60W panel than a 100W one but output is near 100W if SC Amps measured. I'm going to get a better regulator for next year. That should give me 100Ah/day or 140Ah if I can put on another 100W panel and even 345W won't give a surplus out side of mid-summer.
My PMW regulator works well with the rigid panels as I can tweak the settings. It throws away a lot of power with the standard settings as it thinks my batteries are charged at 85%. Pushing the V max. to 15V means it always pushes everything into the batteries. Voltage drop means the batteries never see more than 14.8V and this is exactly what the manufacturers suggest. I drop back to standard settings on very rare marina visits during summer.
4) Battery measurement Others have mentioned that it's not possible to get an accurate reading of capacity using Amps in/Out. I decided not to bother initially but then got a Smartgauge as part of a package when upgrading charging wiring and system. It seems to work quite well and usually agrees with my SG readings taken every 6 weeks.
Do buy a hydrometer and get a hydrovolt model if you can find one. I used to use the old glass tube type and correct for temperature. Hydrovolt is easier to use and autocorrects for temp.
5) Mains charger I think my 40A charger pulls about 700W max. from my Honda, so 60A would be around 1kW. Your 60A charger is probably OK but larger capacity means shorter time running Honda generator but not a huge difference. I'd be tempted to keep the original kit for time being.
I have 4 x Trojan T105s and they benefit from getting to manufacturers suggested daily charge voltage of 14.8V. The standard charger doesn't have a suitable battery type setting. I've picked the best match and tweaked it using the internal potentiometer to give fastest charge rate at anchor. However, this leaves the float voltage at about 14.2V. Not a problem at anchor as I won't run my Honda for hours with full batteries, but I do alter DIP switch settings for odd visits to a marina.
I usually run the Honda around in the morning if I'm anchored somewhere for several days and need a recharge. This bangs in a fair bit and then solar slowly tops it up during the day. Seems to work better than running the generator in the late afternoon.
6) Hot water You haven't mentioned this but solar showers work well, plus timing showers to match HW availability from engine running. Using the Honda to heat water isn't a great idea and it is better suited to topping up batteries and I don't run the main engine to charge batteries, so that pretty much leaves solar.
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Post by MalcolmP on Oct 17, 2016 8:48:02 GMT
Mistrona
Great video and text, If you are happy I will add it to Hints and Tips
Malcolm
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Post by Mistroma on Oct 17, 2016 18:50:14 GMT
No problem feel free to use the video. I meant to give more picture detail about the regulator wiring for completeness but ran out of time. However, that part simply consists of a regulator beside the batteries with wires to deck socket and to always on side of the domestic battery switch (fused of course).
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Post by Trevor on Oct 18, 2016 7:21:50 GMT
Hello all,
I am thinking of buying a generator and was reading the Honda advice site (not buying a Honda, just stealing ideas! ) and read to never put your generator below deck on a yacht as the petrol fumes may cause an explosive situation. I am think of putting this gennie in the port aft lazaret but now I am a little concerned. Has anyone been concerned about petrol fumes in enclosed spaces when housing the generator?
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by MalcolmP on Oct 18, 2016 8:49:45 GMT
Hello all, I am thinking of buying a generator and was reading the Honda advice site (not buying a Honda, just stealing ideas! ) and read to never put your generator below deck on a yacht as the petrol fumes may cause an explosive situation. I am think of putting this gennie in the port aft lazaret but now I am a little concerned. Has anyone been concerned about petrol fumes in enclosed spaces when housing the generator? Regards, Trevor I did try a Chinese Honda a copy a few years ago, but found it too noisy and under-powered If I go back to a generator at some point I would add an LPG kit (some are supplied dealer fitted) on safety grounds www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Generator-LPG-conversion-kit-for-propane-gas-kit-C-/222152856481Still risks of course but you could add a remote gas detector in the lazarette If I recollect I think someone on this forum also put an exhaust outlet to a thru hull fitting - I would think though need to keep the exhaust run really short to avoid too much back pressure The Yamaha EF2000is gets good reviews and is a bit lighter than the Honda
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Post by Trevor on Oct 18, 2016 12:24:42 GMT
Thanks Malcolm, I remember the through hull installation. It was in the port side tool locker in a 2 cabin version of an SO36i. I don't want to go to that much trouble and cut holes in the boat for a little cheapie gen set. I am thinking of this one www.bunnings.com.au/full-boar-2200w-petrol-inverter-generator_p6290315. It has remote start and seems like great value. We would like to keep batteries up when overcast without running the main engine for hours. We will have to work out the best location and operational practice for our needs. Regards, Trevor
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