Migrating to B&G Zeus Touch

[so40gtb]

Like many SO40s, Voyageur has the complete suite of turn-of-the-century Raytheon ST60 instruments, chartplotters, and monochrome radar. While good in its day and still functional, it's on the edge of obsolescence at this point - and the radar is slowly failing.

I've been impressed by everything I've read on the B&G Zeus Touch displays, particularly the sailing-oriented data options. The broadband 4G radar looks impressive, too.

Of course, the thought of removing all of the Raytheon apparatus and installing all new B&G apparatus is scary both as to price and as to vessel disruption. So I'm thinking that a "layered and sequenced" approach to migrating Voyageur's navionics into the current decade is appropriate, if practical.

The ST60 multifunction display integrates all of the SeaTalk1 data and has NMEA0183 data output. It appears that I can connect this data to the B&G Zeus Touch unit's NMEA0183 input and thereby obtain the data output by all the SeaTalk1 devices, though the Autohelm ST5000 pilot probably can't be controlled from the Zeus. Install a Wi-Fi router, connect the Zeus and my Fusion audio system to it, acquire the appropriate iPhone & iPad apps, and we start entering the modern era?

This would be the starting configuration, followed by replacement of the (nearly dead) monochrome radar unit and then the autopilot. All the other ST60 instruments would remain in place and functional.

Has anyone gone down this path? It would appear that my initial investment can be limited to a Zeus Touch display, which I can use to mock-up and test the NMEA0183 interface scheme before putting any additional money into the upgrades. If it utterly fails, then I can contemplate taking a modest loss by selling it on e-bay as "nearly new".

--Karl

[hoppy]

Jul 7, 2014 0:48:37 GMT so40gtb said:

I've been impressed by everything I've read on the B&G Zeus Touch displays, particularly the sailing-oriented data options. The broadband 4G radar looks impressive, too.

I was impressed too but not by the price ;-) So I got the E7

Just trying to understand your physical install plan... Will you keep the ST60 (at the nav table??) to supply NMEA data via wifi to the Zeus, at he helm I guess?

I don't see why it would "utterly fail". At worst you might have to buy a multiplexer that supports Seatalk to get the NMEA to the Zeus (I guess).

I vaguely recall reading that with the Zeus to take full advantage of the unique sailing features you had to have something like the H5000 CPU and associated sensors as well. You might want to check up on that (I could be wrong)

[so40gtb]

The ST60 multifunction is located at the navigation station, as is the Raytheon color chartplotter. The concept du jour is to replace the old chartplotter with a Zeus2 display unit (9 or 12 inch), connect it to a Wi-Fi router, and use an iPad as the device at the helm that mimics the Zeus2, which will make it easy to move the display from helm to helm. And cost far less than more Zeus2 displays.

The ST60 multi NMEA0183 output is connected to the Standard Horizon VHF radio, delivering current coordinates from the chartplotter. I can do the same from the B&G, so I need not leave the ST60 multi connected to the radio. The SeaTalk1 to NMEA0183 conversion is done in the ST60 muli, I believe.

--Karl

[bikerwookie]

I have the simrad nss7 very similar to the zeus and zeus2

We put nmea in and then it broadcasts that over wifi. Just used a standard router running on 12v. It also broadcasts the n2k sensors.

ipad works great with it and you can use the fusion sonichub from the ipad anywhere on the boat. On the ipad we also run inavx and iregatta from the wifi feeds. It's a very slick system and for the money provides great flexibility.

[rc sail]

Good posts on updating electronics/nav displays. My 2007 DS came equipped with
Ray Marine stuff (E 80 plotter and ST60 displays). All had been well until last
week when my Raystar GPS sensor/antenna stopped working. The current Ray Marine
GPS sensor is $299.00 plus you need s Ray Marine Sea talk converter costing $100.00
to convert the "new" GPS sensor Seatalk nt signal output to Seatalk 1. I am now
finding Ray's proprietary Seatalk data language makes it difficult to use electronics
from other than Ray Marine. One does have some limited imput with NEMA0183 and I
have ordered a Digital Marine GPS sensor costing $160.00. I remain hopeful the
new GPS sensor install and unit operation will be consistent with the research I
have done to date.

[so43ds]

Sorry for my bad english. I have Zeus touch 7", radar 4g and module gofree. Zeus touch don't see st5000. St5000 see zeus touch only modality track. Zeus touch see all information from st60. I have installed convert signal st1/nmea0184 raymarine e85001. St5000 it's very bad. I want change with new ev200 nmea2000. Zeus touch see ev200? Radar 4g it's incredibile. See little ball at 5 mt my boat

[so40gtb]

so43ds, no apologies needed, your English is clear when not smooth.

The main question of the moment is whether the Zeus system will take as input the complete NMEA 0183 data sentence set. The manual for the Zeus2 suggests that it will only accept waypoint data via NMEA0183, but the Zeus Touch manual also suggests that other data will be recognized. This seems to work for so43ds, though not fully integrated with the autopilot. I have a query in to Navico technical support regarding data input.

If the Zeus2 won't accept the full range of NMEA 0183 data, then such data could be converted to a NMEA 2000 stream via a device such as the Actisense converter and fed into the Zeus2 in the newer format. Of course, the data update intervals will be far longer than on a full NMEA 2000 system.

The ST60 Multifunction appears to provide the bridge between NMEA0183 and SeaTalk1, based on a read of its manual.

The Zeus2 12" units don't appear to be in wide distribution in the US yet.

--Karl

[hoppy]

Jul 7, 2014 19:29:17 GMT so40gtb said:

The ST60 multifunction is located at the navigation station, as is the Raytheon color chartplotter. The concept du jour is to replace the old chartplotter with a Zeus2 display unit (9 or 12 inch), connect it to a Wi-Fi router, and use an iPad as the device at the helm that mimics the Zeus2, which will make it easy to move the display from helm to helm. And cost far less than more Zeus2 displays.

The ST60 multi NMEA0183 output is connected to the Standard Horizon VHF radio, delivering current coordinates from the chartplotter. I can do the same from the B&G, so I need not leave the ST60 multi connected to the radio. The SeaTalk1 to NMEA0183 conversion is done in the ST60 muli, I believe.

--Karl

I just had a look and I see that the Zeus is much better priced now than when I looked 3 years ago...

Have you tried using your iPad at the helm with Navionics or similar? I tried that originally and quite frankly hated it. The screen was so hard to see. As I solo a lot I don't want to be distracted by struggling to see the chart.

The iPad integration with the E7 and I'm sure most other MFD's is great but I have done the opposite to your plan and mounted the E7 at the helm and have the iPad at the nav table repeating the display there when needed.

[so40gtb]

It turns out that the NMEA 0183 sentences recognized at input and sourced to output are described in a chart located in the Zeus2 manual appendix, which I didn't find until B&G/Navico support pointed it out. All of the data from the ST60 instruments appears on the list. So, with the Raytheon ST60 Multifunction serving as the NMEA 0183 to/from SeaTalk1 interface, the Zeus2 should integrate seamlessly, though the data update intervals will not be as short as one might desire.

My wife has suggested placing the Zeus2 near the helm and using the iPad at the nav station. Because of the SO40's dual helms, I would need to mount the Zeus2 U-bracket underneath the aft end of the cockpit table. Not sure how accessible it would be from either helm, nor how readily the cables can be snaked between the cockpit floor and the aft berth ceiling. A pair of Zeus2 7" units, one at each helm, seems wasteful.

--Karl

[hoppy]

I think your wife is right

My E7 is mounted under the cockpit table. When I bought it I also got the remote control that you can mount on the wheel, but other than for testing I never bothered with it as the unit is in easy reach. When programming it I do tend to sit on the removable seat in the middle. I would prefer to mount it above the table on a swivel mount but I am in no rush to make the effort in doing that as most of the time under the table is fine.

The gap between the floor an the ceiling liner was enough to allow me to run cables from under the table base to the corner of the floor by the port helm (in a direct line). I did need to drill through the floor on an angle to allow the plugs on the ends of the cables to be fed through. Down the centerline of the cockpit there are som cables running directly aft (follows the line of the cabin divider) so I needed to make the hole off centre to avoid tears. Between the floor and the ceiling liner there is some sort of cement like glue holding them together, but at least on my boat it did not impede the running of the cable. I did try as much as possible to poke around the gap to see if it was clear. When I drilled for the cable it was always in the back of my mind I will not work and knew the last resort option was to go through the ceiling liner as well.

I have 4 cables running through the floor, power, nmea out (AIS feed to the old Garmin at the nav table and for the DCS VHF), a Seatalk NG and for the radar a Seatalk HS which is simple an Ethernet CAT cable. The CAT connector was the biggest, so if the B&G is no bigger you probably will be ok.

[mmellanen]

I have also truggled is data mirration to Zeus touch.  For st60 Instruments the migration idea and schematics are well presented at this link www.quesera-sailing.com/Upgrading_Que_Sera_Chartploter.pdf

For ST70 Instruments things are pretty much the same. except convertter existing Instruments are taken to SeaTalkng 5-way Connector. At 5-way connector there is propalby space because you remove the legacy plotter. To connect from 5-way connector to to Zeus there is needed SeatalkNG to NMEA2000 Adapter cable to which you connect normal NMEA2000 cable. That goes traight to Zeus. Seatalkng and NMEA2000 speak same language, but they have just different connectors.

Anyhow, my trouble has been the difficulty to get wind information to Zeus. Is there needed some kind on apmlifier or something?

[so40gtb]

So, while perfection may await another day, I now have most essential data interfaced from the ST60 instruments to the B&G Zeus2 MFD. I had to go the SeaTalk1 to SeaTalk-ng converter route, plus the ng to NMEA2000 adapter cable. The ST60 multifunction display's NMEA0183 output was incompatible with the Zeus2 input and I didn't have the time to ascertain the exact cause and create a solution.

There's much to learn regarding use of the system.

--Karl

[hoppy]

Probably better that way as you don't need to have the ST60 MFD on for the Zeus to get all of the info

[mmellanen]

I got the wind data to T8, when I replaced the old raymarine wind pod with iTC-5 converter. Now only Challence is how to get AIS data to T8? I have tryed to bring it via video cable since is should be supporting nmea0183 data. The data baud rate is set to 38400 from t8 network settings. Results? On old raymerine plotter AIS data is available, but at the T8 nothing happens. From easyAIS-is AISdevice there are two wires that are tranporting the Signal to plotter. So these two wires should then be connected to 2 wires of videocable. And after that it should work. How hard that could be? 

On the usage point one thing in annoyin at T8. If I am running on a route it is higlighted, which is good, but I would not Care less about all the other routes. Is the a option that hides other routes if one is selected?

and one more question.. How do you switch on the sail time ETA and sail distance to final destination. You can have these informatios e.g. on the second row of chart view, but even you have started to navigate on a route these fields are empty..

[xxsailing]

TO ALL OF YOU THAT WANT TO INTEGRATE YOUR EXISTING ST60 SYSTEM WITH A NEW B&G PLOTTER.

Do NOT go through the NMEA0183.

All you need is a a ST1 - STNG conversion kit from Raymarine
Article E22158

From that kit and over to a NMEA2000 T-joiner you need a cable with the NG connector in one end and a Micro-C connector Male in the other. 
Article A06046

Thats it. All Seatalk data will now be available in the NMEA2000 network and into the Zeus.

Thomas

[rene460]

Hi xxsailing,

You have resurrected a very old thread with your very useful information, thank you.  

It is dissapointing that despite so called standards for communication protocol, it is frustratingly difficult to make different manufacturers devices talk to each other.  I can understand the sales ploy to lock us into their product by making inter communication difficult, but they also defeat any possibility of trying their product with a small addition to what our boat was supplied with as a first step to a gradual changeover.

It is good to see these old threads still being trawled through by new members, they contain a wealth of excellent information which is still valid.

Welcome to the forum, it's a great place to hang out with lots of friendly fellow sailors.

rene460

[so40gtb]

And now, to complete the loop that I started, Voyageur is 100% B&G/Simrad, ST60 and other Raymarine components totally replaced. Zeus2-12 at the helm, Zeus2-7 at the nav station, Triton displays at both helms, 4G radar, and Simrad autopilot. It all works very well.