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Post by srah1953 on Dec 20, 2013 22:52:35 GMT
Hi
I have a 409 with the 106% jib mounted on cabin top. Has anyone with a similar set-up added towable jib cars and could they provide a photo or description of how it is set-up at the cockpit end?
Thanks
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Post by MartyB on Dec 22, 2013 0:48:03 GMT
This should not be a big thing to do. Harken has a compuspec program on there main page which would give you ALL of there parts to do this. If you have say lewmar, you may find the same info on that site. Altho I recall Jeanneau using Harken recently, so that would be the first place I would look. I would also swag, that it will be not too different from an article I put int the hints and tips area for my jib/genoa carrs along the cabin deck area seen here. If I were to do this again, I would prefer carrs that have bearings vs non, as that would make moving them easier, but this system works for the funds I have into it. One could also use potentially a rope clutch to hold the end of the line vs cam cleats as I used. marty |
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Post by srah1953 on Dec 23, 2013 19:47:52 GMT
Hi Marty
Thanks for this. I'm presuming changing the cars is reasonably doable, if costly, but with the track being up on the cabin top and the way it's set-up on the 409, I can't see an easy way to bring the line back to a winch in the cockpit- to get something that works and isn't plug ugly.
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Post by MartyB on Dec 24, 2013 3:58:06 GMT
Do you have winches on the cabin top? that is where I would run the lines too. I have carrs both on the side deck, and cabin top. If I had run line control cars for my 110 and smaller, then those lines would run along the cabin top to the winches at the back of the cabin top on my rig.
As I am typing......I am also thinking the 409 has a lot of the lines buried under a false cabin top?!?!?!?! if so, you might be able to run them under and have them pop up at the back of the cabin.
making it so you are not running over / seeing lines etc, is doable, but with out really knowing your boat per say....its a guess on my part. I do feel it is doable.
Changing out the cars is not too hard in all reality. You might also do as I did, lengthen the tracks. As you move the carr forward with a reefed jib, you may not be able to have the carr set correct in winder conditions. If it is not set correct, you get more heeling and sidways movement from the jib vs forward movement in gusts.
Marty
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Post by srah1953 on Dec 24, 2013 12:57:01 GMT
Hi Marty
Thanks again. Yes there is a false cabin top, but I have used up all of the turning eyes and also the cam cleats (or I will have when I get 2 additional ones added for a whisker pole down haul & cunningham). I've thought of running it along the side of the cabin top back to the winches near the steering wheels but I was hoping someone had already done it and I could see a finished article. I did have a rigger look at it and he said something could be rigged up but would not necessarily be pretty. He said that the jib couldn't be adjusted under load but that probably was because he was thinking of using the existing track. At the time, I thought that if it couldn't be adjusted under load, I might as well just ease the sheet, run forward, adjust, and run back and take in the sheet. However, the reality probably is that if it can't be done easily, most times I just won't bother.
The other thing is (and this is from memory- the boat being 5 hours away and it being gale force winds here for the past week and expected to last for another few days) the jib track is quite short and I don't think it can be lengthened because it sits in an indent in the cabin top.I do have photos but they are on the laptop on the boat!
Happy Xmas.
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Post by MartyB on Dec 24, 2013 14:27:01 GMT
One can adjust the jib under load to a degree with line control. BUT, if you want to move the car forward under load, you will have to loosen the sheet some, backward is a bit easier as you have the sheet trying to lift the car and push it back.
The thing I personally like about the line control carrs, IS because I can adjust from the cockpit even if I do have to loosen the sheet some and retighten, its a lot safer from the cockpit than on the deck to ajdust the carr. Never had figured out why only us racers like line control carrs, safety is one, micro adjust ment is another..a lot easier......
I can see why longer would be an issue of the tracks are indented in the deck. Mine are on top, so not the issue.
Marty
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Post by so40gtb on Dec 29, 2013 4:10:06 GMT
I'm not familiar with the 409's track location, but we implemented adjustable fairlead cars on our former SO34.2 and current SO40. On the SO34.2, I placed Harken track-end blocks at the front end of the track, 3:1 purchase, and led the lines back to cam cleats mounted on the outside of the cockpit coaming. On the SO40, I eliminated the Amiot hardware and installed new Garhauer cars, front blocks, and rear cam cleats (the SO40 has the track on the side deck), with a 5:1 purchase (IIRC). The advantage of having adjustable fairlead cars cannot be minimized, especially when one must lessen the jib area in fresh winds or the wind shifts from close reach to beam/broad reach. Cruising without them would be much less fun! I may be able to take a look at the 409 at a show in a few weeks and will post any observations pertinent.
--Karl
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Post by srah1953 on Jan 6, 2014 21:50:10 GMT
I'm not familiar with the 409's track location, but we implemented adjustable fairlead cars on our former SO34.2 and current SO40. On the SO34.2, I placed Harken track-end blocks at the front end of the track, 3:1 purchase, and led the lines back to cam cleats mounted on the outside of the cockpit coaming. On the SO40, I eliminated the Amiot hardware and installed new Garhauer cars, front blocks, and rear cam cleats (the SO40 has the track on the side deck), with a 5:1 purchase (IIRC). The advantage of having adjustable fairlead cars cannot be minimized, especially when one must lessen the jib area in fresh winds or the wind shifts from close reach to beam/broad reach. Cruising without them would be much less fun! I may be able to take a look at the 409 at a show in a few weeks and will post any observations pertinent. --Karl That would be great. In your system on the 34 or 40, can the tracks be moved under load or do you need to ease off the jib sheet? Thanks |
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Post by so40gtb on Feb 1, 2014 4:10:45 GMT
Sorry for not responding more promptly. I tend to access the Forum less frequently over the winter.
"It depends". Moving the cars under load is feasible. If you want to move the car aft, simply pull the forward car lead line out of the cam cleat and winch the jib in. The car will move aft with the jib sheet. Unfortunately, to move the car forward, you must release the jib sheet to lessen tension and make it feasible to pull the car forward. After a few years of experience with this, my view is that it's better to ease the jib sheet sufficiently for unassisted pull on the lead car line than to put the latter on a winch (well, if one is available, which will never be the case on a SO34.2).
Most cases of moving the car forward in the cruising environment arise from a need to partially furl the jib, so you're going to loosen the sheet anyway to facilitate furling. The key is to set the fairlead car position before winching down the jib sheet hard, once jib rolling is completed and the jib furling line is clutched. Where to place the fairlead car is an "experience" matter. One rule-of-thumb is to move it forward by the same length as that of the bottom of the jib that's been rolled, given a constant point of sail. Then work the sail shape via jib sheet tension, course heading, and mainsheet position.
--Karl
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