Sun Odyssey 45.2 (or 43 DS) single-handed?

[paulus]

I am planning to buy a second-hand boat, something 5-10 yo, max. 130k Euros.
Important factors are 3 cbs, single-handed ... and a large owner berth!


I like the Sun Odyssey 45.2. I noticed though that the winches are forward of the helm, so my concern is how feasible single-handed sailing is.


Another model that I like and that could be a good alternative is the Sun Odyssey 43 DS. There should be single-handed easier, though - to be honest - I would have prefered a two-helm boat (but I suppose somewhere you have to accept a compromise...)


Grateful for any general comment on those two models.

paulus

[sitara]

Hi Paulus,
I single hand my SO36i a lot and find it very easy on the whole. The main thing is to reef early. The 36i has a cabin top mainsheet which is definitely not handy to the helm, so I run the mainsheet once around the cabin top winch and then back to the unused genoa winch. An alternative is to fit a german mainsheet system as described in the hints and tips section.

Also a remote control on the anchor winch is handy allowing it to be operated from the helm position.

And if anything the new boat is easier to sail than the old smaller boat.

[MartyB]

ONe of the other moderators Zanshin has had a few boats from about 40 up to around 53 now. He has sailed all of his by himself at some point in time.......alth he has had some crew that are nice to look at, but not sure they sail the boat per say! If you can pm him, or hope he posts sooner than later, he can let you know the who what where when and why of it.

Marty

[sailbleu]

No problem here to sail my 40DS on my own. Infact I kind of prefer it , except for the disadvantage of not having enough sleep of course.
My helm is right and front of the cockpit. That means no 3 cabins , but I wouldn't want it another way. Now I have acces to a huge starboard locker
Having a large cockpit space is priceless. I even increased that free space by reconstructing my table which is now swingable.
If I may give you an advice , go for the DS model you will not regret it.
Not sure if the anchor locker is the same on de 43 as on the 40DS , if so , forget controling the anchor from the helm , while hauling the anchor the chain always gets stuck after coming off the gipsy.

But euhhhh ,... only a 130K for a 5-10 year old 43DS ?

Regards

[manaia]

I have to go single handed from time to time - usually when the admiral wants a shopping weekend in town or to catch up with the girls!

I find that the DS43 is easy to handle alone, the in mast furling means being able to reduce sail easily and without leaving the cockpit. I agree that the main sheet on the cabin top is out of reach but using to the auto pilot means this is usually not a problem.

Having the genoa winches beside the helm is a big plus and tacking is straight forward because of this. I prefer to have the genoa winches handy and the the main sheet 'out of reach' rather than the other way around.

The anchor locker is quite deep and I have only had a couple of occasions where the chain has piled up and caused an issue (I have found that a wireless remote is a big help if I need to steer the boat and raise the anchor at the same time).

The biggest issue for me is leaving and returning to the marina berth. I find that use of the midship line is a big help, and I have a berth that allows the prevailing wind to push me against the pontoon, so most times it's not a problem.

Forward visibility from inside the cabin is good as well, so if you are at the chart table, you can see where you are going....

[Alexandria452]

Paulus, I strongly believe that the 45.2 is the best boat Jeanneau ever built (I am a little biased!). I single-hand mine quite frequently and modified how some of the lines run + added some clutches + other fittings to make the job a bit easier.

You are absolutely correct that the placement of the primary winches makes tacking impossible without the help of the autopilot, especially in heavier weather. But generally speaking, you can't single hand a bigger boat without relying heavily on the autopilot anyway.

The boat is generally well balanced upwind down to beam reach and the autopilot can handle it well whether you set it to a compass heading or wind angle (I have the original Raymarine autopiot that came with the boat). Downwind in rolling seas is tricky and the autopilot works, on average, about 50% of the time.

[coffsguy]

Hi Paulus,

Ask for an opinion and you will receive many points of view ... here is my humble opinion.

I own a 2005 DS43 and have no problem with the winch configuration nor sailing single handed. I agree with Sitara that reefing early is a must for any sailor and tacking or gybing is simple if you haul in the mainsheet first. Engaging the autopilot so you can manage the genoa sheets effectively makes it a simple task.

With respect to docking I think most would agree it is a much easier task with a bow-thruster.

As for the anchor chain jamming issue it seems to be a common problem with any sloping bulkhead. I intend to fix it by installing a plate to allow the chain to fall into the deepest part of the locker.

Mention was made by another member regarding cockpit anchor winch controls ... Unless you have a chain counter (which apparently aren't that reliable according to O'Carol's previous owner) the key here is to have a method of indicating when you are have a metre or two left to retrieve - perhaps using flouro paint.

Good luck with your search and happy sailing.
 

[hoppy]

Go for the boat that "rocks your boat" the most Then from there work out how best to sail it solo.

Originally I worried about getting a boat in which I can trim the headsails from behind the helm and luckily my no1 favourite boat fitted that criteria. I solo my yacht probably 70% of the time and noticed that much of the time I am using the autohelm. If I could not access the winches from the helm I would miss the hands on tacking and the occasional trimming from the helm, but now if I was looking for a new boat, access to the winches from the helm is more a very nice to have rather than a must have requirement.

Two nice touches I have for solo is a wireless remote for the AP and a Raymarine i70 on the cabin bulkhead. So that when I am in front of the helm I can fine tune the course and keep an eye on the progress of any trimming.

A remote for the windlass is good. I use it to release a fast drop when anchoring, letting out the chain for med style mooring and hauling up the anchor when pulling away from the dock. Once I am past the neighbours boats I am forced to go up to the windlass to baby sit the chain.

I hind the biggest thing with soloing is that you have to thoroughly plan the manoeuvres and be 110% ready.

When you get whichever boat, get out and sail it for a while and you will quickly realise what you need to make it better for you.

[manaia]

Dec 11, 2013 22:04:33 GMT coffsguy said:

Hi Paulus,



Mention was made by another member regarding cockpit anchor winch controls ... Unless you have a chain counter (which apparently aren't that reliable according to O'Carol's previous owner) the key here is to have a method of indicating when you are have a metre or two left to retrieve - perhaps Fluro paint
 

I have la large yellow fluro cable tie set at 2m from the anchor - it makes it easy to see from the helm. I use these at ten and twenty meters on the chain (different colours), they last quite well and don't appear to have any impact when going through the windlass.

[paulus]

Thanks to you all for your suggestions.

@alexandria452,

can you tell me a bit more what you find so good in the 45.2?
I would be also very interested to know which changes you did to yours. Did you get a an extra whinch to be placed aft of the helm? (...would that be feasible?!?)


paulus

[Zanshin]

I singlehanded my 43DS for a time in the Caribbean and found it a great boat. I still get feelings of nostalgia when I go aboard one - it is well designed and well behaved.

[Alexandria452]

Hi Paulus, Hard to do full review on a board, but I found these articles helpful:

features.boats.com/boat-content/2004/12/transatlantic-on-a-jeanneau-sun-odyssey-452/

www.sailingmagazine.net/boat-test/462-jeanneau-sun-odyssey-452.html

www.boatpoint.com.au/reviews/1999/jeanneau/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-452-9178

On the winch placement issue: I looked into different modifications options but found none that would solve this specific issue. There are two large lazarets right in front of the helm, so you can't place new winches there.

[windspeak]

Hi Paulus
Sat in my 43 DS at the moment in MIndelo Marina waiting for a fair wind to Barbados sailing solo from the UK Its a great Boat bit lively at times but eats up the miles the cabin space is great and very versatile I have made allsorts o f alterations to mine inner moveable forestay, split the aft cabin, decent cooker, enlarged bottle banks, lots of ground tackle the list is endless If you can find a boat that has been fitted out for solo distance cruising you can save yourself a lot of time and money A good Auto Helm for example is a must It,s quite an interesting exercise to list all the gear equipment you may need for your purpose cost it all then add it to what is not on the boat your looking at its not a bad bargaining counter either best of luck
Windspeak

[lauriesail]

Dec 14, 2013 13:43:47 GMT Zanshin said:

I singlehanded my 43DS for a time in the Caribbean and found it a great boat. I still get feelings of nostalgia when I go aboard one - it is well designed and well behaved.

I also get nostalgic over my SODS43 which is a great boat (two helms by the way) and can easily be sailed single handed, though as someone said, PLAN AHEAD.

You can find some tips on improvements which help on my old website which I have left online.

www.mediterranean-yachting.com/Galana-River/improvmts.htm

Go to it.

[On y va]

For starters, the SO40 is ofcourse the best boat every built by Jeanneau. If anything, Jeanneau themselves say it is the fastest hull they have ever built (relatively ofcourse). But, I am biased too!! hahahahaaha! 

Ok, more in ernest: the main sheet handling is currently a topic I am trying to work out too, as I am planning an extended (maybe world) cruise on my SO40, singlehandedly.

Having the cabin top traveller and main sheet handling really sucks when sailing singlehandedly, especially when it gets windy. You are always too late.

So my current idea is to have either a central bracket in the middle of the cockpit (so no traveller) or a (removable) traveller in the cockpit, running between the two lockers and just over the table mount/foot rest, when sailing long crossings. I wouldn´t and couldn´t have the table though, but I don´t particularly like it anyway when sailing.
I would have Harken or Selden triple blocks, with a cam for the main sheet handling, running to the end of the boom.

The traveller would have to be able to deal with like 230kg sheet pressure under normal circumstances, so double that to be on the safe side (like a sudden gibe or so).

For anybody interested how I come to that: The formula to calculate your sheet pressure is:0,02104 x sail m2 x windspeed in knots x X² (squared).
But, this gives a value based on the sheet attached to the end of your boom. If the sheet attaches half way (like on most Jeanneau´s) you should double this figure.
So, as an example for my SO40, with the sheet conversion as I intend at the end of the boom: 0,02104 x 36 x 20 x X² = 229,5 kg. From 20 knots I need to reef anyway, so you just do the formula again, with reduced sail area.
Having triple blocks, it would mean divide by 6, so to pull the sheet at 20 knots with full sail, would mean 38kgs to pull. That is still do-able for me. 

To make singlehanded sailing easier, I have also placed a Harken 35.2 winch on the mast, as I have abolished the "one line reefing system". It never works properly and caused deep scratches in the head of my boom, as the leech and luff lines never pull evenly. So I have placed a Z-spar hook on the boom head and hoist and lower the main and reef at the mast. I do still use the one line system to pull the leech end of the main sail when reefing.

Marco

[hoppy]

Jan 20, 2014 14:31:57 GMT On y va said:

For starters, the SO40 is ofcourse the best boat every built by Jeanneau. If anything, Jeanneau themselves say it is the fastest hull they have ever built (relatively ofcourse). But, I am biased too!! hahahahaaha! 

That does not sound biased to me

[Alexandria452]

Marco, I am no expert on loads, etc. but I am sure you will take into consideration whether the boom you have was spec'ed for mid-boom sheeting or boom-end sheeting. My understanding is that the different points of load require a different boom, at least some times.

[On y va]

Hi Alexandria452,

Well, that is easy. Jeanneau has already done this for me. The booms on all these mid-sheeted boats (Jeanneau, Beneteau, Bavaria, Hanse, etc) have to be 50% stronger (and are specced accordingly) than when the sheet attaches at the end of a boom. So in fact, I could go for a thinner boom if I attach at the end. But....that seems a waste of money to replace the boom.

Marco

[paulus]

Thanks a lot everybody.

I just bought this week a beautifully kept 2002 Sun Odyssey 45.2

paulus

[On y va]

Excellent! Congratulations and many, many happy and safe nautical miles! 

[pirateslife]

Jan 25, 2014 20:13:18 GMT paulus said:

Thanks a lot everybody.

I just bought this week a beautifully kept 2002 Sun Odyssey 45.2

paulus

Paulus, congrats on your 45.2. Many enhancements possible. Why the question on your teak? Regards to cockpit or deck teak?

[paulus]

Hi pirateslife.

The deck needs a "lifting" but doing that I'll better do the whole surface - cockpit incl. - otherwise you see the difference.

Reading here and there it seems that synthetic teak gets really hot, though (I am going to keep the boat in Greece and Turkey).

Among the many products "Flexiteek" seems to be a kind of favorite...

[aussieodyssey]

Excellent choice . You won't be dissapointed .Enjoy .