Feedback on Jeanneau lift keel yachts wanted for PBO article

[MalcolmP]

Some of you may recollect the excellent 3 part article on Jeanneau History last year in PBO by Peter Poland, well he is now preparing one on lift keels and would like owner feedback on Jeanneau lift keel models, in particularly those with  'stub keel plus centre plate' configurations on cruising models from around 29ft upwards.

Some questions he would like feedback on include:

• How do owners find that their stability compares with fixed keelers (reef earlier?) 
• Do owners reckon they sail better/worse/same to windward? 
  
• Do owners find that the later twin rudder models handle better/worse than single rudders? 
• Do any owners fit legs for drying out upright? 
• Do owners have any comments on centre plate maintenance? 
• Any other observations?

[rene460]

Hi Peter,

I have a SO30i with the stub keel centreboard and twin rudders that you are interested in.  We have had it nearly 4 years and believe it was one of the earliest in this country.  The log now reads over 2000 nm mostly cruising with my wife and I as only crew.

We have come to this, our first keel boat from a fast (read tippy) trailerable, so we feel the stability is great.  Insufficient experience with conventional keel boats to make a fair comparison.

Sailing to windward, initial handling and windward sailing issues have been firmly sheeted home to sail shape issues and we are only now finding our feet in this area.  I can say that we have sailed more than a mile on each tack, no hands wheel lock or autopilot in 10 to 12 knot winds, and we now are getting to the area of 45 degrees to true wind, but hard to tell at what stage we are pinching with few similar boats around.  Typically where we sail, there are very few boats in sight, let alone on a similar course.

Twin rudders seem very effective, but nearly no prop wash unless wheel is really hard over in dead calm.  I would describe it a smaller turning circle one way than the other.  We have no trouble with rounding up when sailing, the lee side rudder is near vertical and seems deep enough despite the wide hull form.

We chose the boat for the shallow lake system where we sail.  There is minimal tide so drying out is not an issue for us.  However we can go up on the beach with the trailerables, but bow in instead of stern to the beach.  That lift keel is just what is required for our shallow channels and near the shore.

Centreboard maintenance, we lower it on the hard during our annual maintenance and anti fouling, and carefully inspect the rope.  The board is balanced so that it nearly floats.  Lowering is sometimes an issue but it comes up easily.  The provision for pushing it down is simple and effective though I usually prefer to do it in the pen or at a jetty rather than I open water.  So far no issues.

Our main other observations are that we would really like a good traveller, perhaps arranged on a bow that would form the main bow of a dodger to get it out of the cockpit, and centre cleats are really a must for docking.  We both love the boat.

I have answered on the board to keep information together for owners, it is an excellent board, but have sent you an email in case you have other questions.

Rene460

 

[Full Circle]

Hi Malcolm, I am in correspondence with Peter about my Sun Odyssey 35 Lift Keel. I will post here when I have done the 'article'

Jim

[oldspike]

Jul 14, 2013 15:57:20 GMT MalcolmP said:

Some of you may recollect the excellent 3 part article on Jeanneau History last year in PBO by Peter Poland, well he is now preparing one on lift keels and would like owner feedback on Jeanneau lift keel models, in particularly those with  'stub keel plus centre plate' configurations on cruising models from around 29ft upwards.

Some questions he would like feedback on include:

• How do owners find that their stability compares with fixed keelers (reef earlier?) 
• Do owners reckon they sail better/worse/same to windward? 
  
• Do owners find that the later twin rudder models handle better/worse than single rudders? 
• Do any owners fit legs for drying out upright? 
• Do owners have any comments on centre plate maintenance? 
• Any other observations?

[tedp]

I emailed Peter with the following info on the SO32:

Here are some notes on the Jeanneau SO32/SF32 which was produced in various forms during (I think) the 2000-2007 period. All used the same hull moulding and there is a lift keel version so this type of boat may be interesting to check out for you. As far as I know there were the following versions:

- a shallow draught SO32 (Sun Odyssey) with a fixed 5ft bulb keel and a rudder drawing an inch or two less.
- an 'SO32 dériveur' version with a lift keel (centreboard) and twin shallow rudders (draught 86cms with the centreboard up, 186 with the keel down). This boat has shallow twin keels to either side of the centreboard.
- a deep draught SF32 (Sun Fast) version with a tall twin spreader rig and (I think) a 6ft bulb keel.
- later versions were designated SO32i, but this only refers to an improved deck moulding, not the hull.
- in addition some were delivered as the SO32 'Légende' but this is only a marketing name.

performance of various SO32/SF32 versions

I own a shallow draught SO32 (2004) with a fixed 5 ft keel. This design has a single spreader cruising rig without a mainsheet traveller and is known for its tendency to round up in a gust, with the rudder 'letting go' if you carry just a fraction too much sail. This has been discussed on the Dutch and English Jeanneau forums. Several owners including myself got rid of that by installing a mainsheet traveller.

One skipper owning a SO32 twin rudder/lift keel version claims that he has no rounding up problem at all. Perhaps he has different sails, but we felt it may be attributed to the single rudder on the keel version being lifted out of the water under sail whereas the twin rudder version always has one rudder in a near-vertical position deeply submerged. I think this is worth checking out.

The SF32 deep keel version has the same rudder as the SO32 (a few inches shorter than 5ft), but I haven't seen reports of rounding up problems on that design. Possibly this is due to the better tracking capability of a deep keel boat and a better rig.

In a 15 knot wind, my fixed keel SO32 will point about 35-40 degrees off the apparent wind, doing about 5 knots on the wind and 7 knots or more running, clocked on the GPS. It may be useful to compare this to a twin rudder/lift keel boat. A polar diagram of the fixed keel SO32 is HERE.

Finally, I have wondered about handling a twin rudder boat under engine, with the rudders out of the prop wash. Will it turn readily without any way on?

I hope this helps you write your article.

[rene460]

Hi Ted,
I can answer your last point on whether the twin rudder configuration turns readily with no way on, at least with respect to my SO30i, it does not turn at all with no way on!

I have experimented several times in a true dead calm.  Basically if I turn the wheel to full lock then briefly gun the engine, it starts forward with a weak tendency to turn in the expected direction.   This applies on forward and in reverse.  As we first move off, say under 1.5 knots, it will turn a tighter radius to starboard than to port, but the slightest adverse breeze and she will not turn to port until we are moving more positively.  Same applies at slow speed when slowing down.  Once we have way on, she steers beautifully and positively despite the relatively short rudders, including when heeling under sail.

I have included the above information in my reply to Peter above.

rene460