sea anchor chain plates

[windspeak]

Hi All
I wish to install A Jordans cone sea anchor on my DS 43 and have concluded that the only practical way to do this is by the addition of suitable chain plates either side of the transom I have had a recommendation that they should be around 700mm X 60mm x10mm and i am considering sighting them 150mm bellow the deck level running parallel with the toe rail or placing them more diagonally into the hull the consideration being side ways stress vs area of anchorage point any thoughts or experience before i consult a surveyor would be most helpful

[rxc]

Is there some reason you don't want to use the aft mooring cleats? They should be quite suitable for this application. ALternatively, I have read about people using the jib winches. It you are really worried about the stress, you could even run the lines fwd to the midships cleats and share the load between mid-ships and aft cleats.

[Alexandria452]

I have a 72" Delta drogue that I rig to the jib winches using a bridal. I haven't had to use it in huge storms yet (knock on wood!), but we did practice using it offshore in 30+ kts and sizable seas. Taking it to the winches with a bridal allows for using it for emergency steering as well.

[windspeak]

HI RXC thanks for the reply
I have had a good look at the aft cleats as i understand the loads involved in all but the severest of conditions could be handled by the cleats my concern is that the fair lead being about two feet forward of the transom might cause chafing as the lines clear the stern or possibly be lifted
in a trough and foul the push pit or the toe rail i guess the chaffing could be sorted with some hose and spreading the load to the midships cleats sounds like a good idea perhaps a bridge piece on the end of the toe rail might save/stop the bridle getting inside of the rail ? my chain plate solution came from these considerations and their recommendation as being the ideal way to fit the series drogue but it is a lot of work to fit them and i do not like drilling holes in the hull perhaps I worry to much, I do find that she dos not hove to very well and sits on the beam more than I like although I have not tried that in earnest yet

[windspeak]

Hi Alexandria
just did a post the got your reply I have seen mention of using the drogue as a steering means presumably shortening the bridle to either side frees or lifts the point of sail sounds like fun can,t wait to try that !
Jollybob

[rxc]

I am curious about the kind of sailing you are going to do that would require a drogue. My wife was quite keen on buying one before we started to do serious cruising, but now she doesn't mention it at all.

For all of our sailing in NW Europe, we have never needed one or even thought it would be useful - the weather forecasts seem to be good enough to be able to avoid truly dangerous weather. Our trip up the east coast of the UK this past summer was not pleasant, but there was nothing a drogue would have done about it. And I can testify that the 43DS does pretty well in serious gales with large seas if you can get the sail area reduced enough, and balanced. An autopilot even does a good job steering in such conditions, with the wind and seas on the quarter.

Are you going to do a bit of open-ocean short-handed sailing?

[Zanshin]

I made up a Jordan Series Drogue for my Jeanneau 49DS and asked Jeanneau if I could put cleats on the aft transom, close to the hull join. Jeanneau passed my load calculations and suggested placement to Philippe Briand (the designer) and within a day I had a sketch of what I should install with what size backing plates - it turns out that the aft transom on that boat is designed for very heavy loads indeed.
I would recommend going through your dealer or directly to Jeanneau with your details and seeing what they would recommend.
I seem to recall that the cleats on the J49 were designed to take half the boat's weight each.

[windspeak]

HI rxc
Your a bit of a mind reader ! Setting up to do some solo work and looking at the Jordans as the best option for the boats configuration and provider of bad weather respite if there is enough seaway to deploy it hence the concern re sound instillation of mounting points
I have been fitting out since September and hope to clear out this summer
Jollybob

[windspeak]

Hi Zanshen
Thanks for the response, your comments about the robustness of the transom are encouraging the problem with my inquiries into fitting the Jordans so far have been understandably general advice from suppliers and articles relating to the system. I will most certainly pursue the line of inquiry you have suggested My boat is 2002 purchased last year my refit is almost complete just the drogue and some communications to do have you a web address for Jeanneau I have a friend who could translate the inquiry ( French not being my strong point )
yours Jollybob

[rxc]

Jollybob,

Not a mind-reader - my wife can testify to that... But since the primary reason to use a drogue/sea anchor is to hold the boat in place while the crew gets some rest, when someone plans to use one it is usually because they plan to go out short-handed.

I can testify that if you are not shorthanded, the 43DS will do pretty well in heavy weather. The major problem is the the pounding as the boat falls off the tops of the 20ft waves and lands flat on the canoe bottom. Every couple of minutes, for hours - it is not conducive to getting much rest, unfortunately.

[sitara]

Having looked at the Jordan Series Drouge website (http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com) I can see the value in having this kind of device on board for bluewater sailing. My cruising ground is Bass Straight, an area not renown for calm seas and reliable weather, and the ability to ride out heavy weather is important.

Jollybob I like the idea of dedicated chainplates for JSD making deployment easy and quick especially when the crew is getting tired.

Also some very interesting comments on sternfirst anchoring.

[j]

This article may be of interest www.morganscloud.com/2013/01/21/real-world-jordan-series-drogue-deployment/

[windspeak]

Sitara and J
looks like this is becoming a topic of interest as perhaps it should what i think is important for modern mid to low displacement yachts owners is that this system is designed for us its use being inshore or out provided there is seaway to play with, the option of anchoring stern first is also very interesting its ability to stabilize the motion of modern yacht designs in adverse conditions continues to be reported on a number of forums the only problem i can see is with retrieval ie for anchoring everything is now at the wrong end of the boat! and the drogue dose not like coming out of the water The article on morganscloud site is the best i have read regarding its use in earnest I respectfully applaud the gift of this system to those who need it

[CycleSailor]

Jollybob, I've been following your thread w/great interest--I have an '02 43DS as well (#126) and would be most interested in what you learn from Jeanneau re engineering specs for your drogue attachment, assuming they're as helpful for you as they were w/Zanshin. Other 43 owners are likely to be curious, as well.
Thanks for raising such a good topic!
Gene

[alcheringa]

Interesting topic Jollybob. We're looking at getting some sort of drogue before we leave the Med for the Atlantic and Pacific crossings with our 43DS after next season here. We'll be very interested in following the thread to see what you come up with. Cheers

SV Alcheringa
www.dreamtimesail.blogspot.com