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Post by Seagem on Oct 1, 2012 19:29:26 GMT
I know this topic has been covered before but I would like to share my experience of using self mixed epoxy copper coating. I scraped off all the old anti fouling by hand using a handy tool called a pro scraper (www.proscraper.co.uk), which was attached to a vacuum cleaner to collect the anti foul. I then sanded back to the gel coat using an orbital sanding machine. The whole process took me 8 days of hard graft to complete my 42' yacht. Then with the help of a friend we used mini rollers to apply a clear coat of epoxy mixed at 2:1 (epoxy:hardener), followed by a total of 3 coats of epoxy 2:1 mixed with pure copper flake added at 80% by weight and epoxy thinners at 5% by weight. Each coat was applied before the previous coat had set apart from the last coat which due to the time had to be applied the following day. This meant we had to lightly abrade the previous coat to form a key. By using copper flake instead of other copper powders available, it gave a sparkly finished appearance, which I think looks stunning and hopefully will expose more copper to deter any marine growth. I am hoping it will last in excess of 10 years. The cost of the materials was approximately £250 Stirling. The epoxy was from www.epoxy-resins.co.uk and the copper flake (natural copper powder no109BM) from Ronald Britton of Rochdale Lancashire - www.colorlord.com/ronaldbritton/metals/metallic-flakeIf someone can inform me how to upload photos to this thread I have some showing the process  |
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Post by Seagem on Oct 1, 2012 20:16:42 GMT
Before I started  |
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Post by Seagem on Oct 1, 2012 20:19:38 GMT
Halfway. Scraped but not sanded apart from part of the keel.  |
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Post by Seagem on Oct 1, 2012 20:21:46 GMT
Sanded with 40 grade sandpaper discs to provide key for first coat of epoxy.  |
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Post by Seagem on Oct 1, 2012 20:22:48 GMT
First coat of copper/epoxy mix  |
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Post by Black Diamond on Oct 2, 2012 4:08:20 GMT
I seriously doubt it will last 10 years... Not sure you should have sanded down to the gel coat. You should have an expoxy barrier on top of your gelcoat. I apply VC-17 each year, lightly sand, don't need to get it all off, just until you start seeing a bit of the epoxy. The epoxy protects the boat from the elements. Then I apply a coat of VC-17 each year. Works great all year.
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Post by MartyB on Oct 2, 2012 4:52:20 GMT
In salt water, copper is the way to go, or in BD case, "VC Offshore". if in freshwater as he is, then VC17 is the choice for hard paint of that type and style. At least that is how the folks in my area use it. if kept in fresh, vc-17, salt go with vcoffshore. or equal style copper based paint.........then again, according to the local state legislature, copper will be banned on recreational boats in about 8 yrs or so.
marty
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Post by MalcolmP on Oct 2, 2012 6:54:44 GMT
I seriously doubt it will last 10 years... Not sure you should have sanded down to the gel coat. You should have an expoxy barrier on top of your gelcoat. I apply VC-17 each year, lightly sand, don't need to get it all off, just until you start seeing a bit of the epoxy. The epoxy protects the boat from the elements. Then I apply a coat of VC-17 each year. Works great all year. I think it might well last OK. We had Coppercoat put on from new 5 seasons ago and yes did have the gel coat lightly abraded before the first epoxy layer (with Jeanneau's blessing) Have used the boat a lot this season and since haul out last March have left the Coppercoat to its own devices and looking at the hull now there are no barnacles or weed at all. There is a slight slime if you feel it, but I don't think that significantly reduces performance. In previous seasons we did get some waterline weed, but that is easy to clean off from the dinghy. I really don't miss all the horror of having to mask up and paint antifoul every winter and I am guessing that having the coppercoat is better for the environment overall. Definitely would use Coppercoat again changed boats Malcolm |
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Post by Seagem on Oct 2, 2012 8:08:39 GMT
Malcolm, Coppercoat is indeed a great product, my friend used it on his yacht 13 years ago and has only ever jet washed the hull annually. Last month he had her lifted after 4 years in the water at Grimsby and she was covered in a slime but it jet washed off easily. The coppercoat had started to wear thin so he has abraded the hull and applied another four coats. If I had bought the coppercoat product it would have coat me 4 times as much. I know of a boat coated with the copper flake that I used that has lasted 15 years. All I can say is watch this space and I will let you know if it lasts!
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Post by sailbleu on Oct 2, 2012 8:43:26 GMT
Oh man , this is really tempting to publish my results on the homemade-coppercoat treatment I applied before the start of this season.
I look up to the neccessairy upload of the pics I took during the process and the translation involved , maybe I'll get around to it when I have the time for it.
I'm about to finish my latest project today , installing an extra fridge ,.
Get ready to receive another hint and tips item Malcolm.
By the way , my other frigoboat fridge is still going strong you know.
But sorry for the offtopic, back to the coppercoat.
Let me describe my experience in one word,...........disaster !!
Used the same procedure as Seagem , scraping the old layers off , sanding the lot , 3 coats of white dyed epoxy and 2 coats of copper powder - epoxy 2:1 , not to forget the sanding of the copperepoxy so the copperoxide was exposed . The result is a small nightmare.
After 3 months I lost that much crusing speed I had to get my diving gear on and give the hull a shave. Not easy when you're floating under the boat , luckely I wrapped some ropes around the boat so I had a grip.
No barnacles though , only algae , 2 to 4 inches long.
A few weeks ago my boat got on the hard , it took the harbour personal an hour to get the hull cleaned with the highpressure .
I know where the problem is situated , it's a matter of finding the right epoxy formula.
You need a waterbased epoxy that is selfpolishing so fresh copperoxide is exposed continiously.
But I dont think coppercoat.com will be eager to share the companies-secret with our community.
But the investment wasn't a complete loss , I took a failure into account before I started the treatment and accepted a possible loss of 200 Euro just for the copperoxide powder.
I do have 5 thick coats of epoxy on the hul now , so no osmoses for me thank you.
I guess it's back to the old selfpolishing AF now.
Regards
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Post by Seagem on Oct 3, 2012 19:31:36 GMT
sailbleu, I remember reading your previous post about your homemade coppercoat when I was researching how to do mine. I believe you said you used a West System epoxy, which when I read their information, suggested using it under normal AF - some what defeats the objective! There are several different copper powders on the market, and my supplier has supplied them all to different individuals who intended using them for anti fouling. The supplier has no details of which powder works the best as they have no feedback and their primary market for these copper powders is not for marine use. However, I was recommended to use the copper flake (also the most expensive in their range) by a boat builder who used it 15 years ago on a boat and it is still OK. Time will tell if I have got it right or wrong but like you, if it is wrong it will not have been a complete loss.
If I were you, I would consider using the proper Coppercoat product, you would only need to lightly abrade the surface of the hull before applying and we know that lasts 10 years or more. I certainly would not go back to normal AF.
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