What is wrong with my in mast furler

[sailbleu]

lately , to be more specific the last week , i've been having problems with my main furler. An odyssey 40 DS by the way.
Rolling in the main isn't the difficulty ,that can be done by hand , unfurling it is more and more becomming a pain in the you know what.
I remember a time ago the main getting unfurled by just some wind being caught.
In the last year I had to use the winch to unfurl it , but that worked ok.
However, a week ago everything blocked completely, part of the main gets clogged up in the exit, i even had the remove the furler system below to get the main sail out . releasing the bottom fix of the alu furler allows that furler to swing more to the inside solving the clogging up on the sail exit you see.
By using to much winch power the furlersheet also got jammed into the spiral, it just flipted over one pass of the spiral so I had the take the backplate off in order to reposition the furlersheet (please have a look on the hint and tips section where I described the replacement of the furlersheet some time ago ).
Anyway , I tried everything , changing the angle of the boom , changing the mastbend , played around with the main halyard tension , tried to furler the main while having it under tension so it is wrapped around the alu pipe very tight , lubricated the whole lot ,........ nothing helps.
The other day I took the main sail down and tried the furler empty so to speek , it (un)furled like a whisle .
I have read a post where a sailer had the main recut because of the unfurling difficulties.
Would that also be the case in my case i wonder ?
Its not that I used my mainsail that frequently , most of the time the genoa does all the work and lately my gennaker is my best friend.
In fact how long does it take before you have to replace the main due to exessive streching ?

Has anyone encountered the same problems as I"m expiercing now , please help me out of my misery by sharing your sollution.
Thanks already.

Kind regards

[Zanshin]

Could your mainsail be losing shape? Also, how much back pressure do you have on the main when you furl it - could it just be getting too big for the enclosure?

[sailbleu]

Hi Zanshin , happy to get some respons , although it is not really what I was hoping for.
But thanks anyway.
It supprises me that no one has ever encountered the same problem , in mast systems are after all very common no ?
The sailor I spoke of (on an other board) had a 43DS , so there must be plenty of boats floating around with in mast systems similar to mine.
With regards to the backpressure , that was never a issue you know.
Be it severe or be it none at all , the sail always unfurled afterwards.
Yesterday again I could not unfurl the sail and had to give it a helping hand by pulling and slapping on the sail somewhat higher and then it gradually gave in.
I really have my mind set on the fact that the sail has lost its shape , but then there must be more sailors confronted with this phenomenon is it not.
Sofar the feedback on this board has proven otherwise I would say.
Again thanks for you input , maybe the case cracker will follow suit.

Kind regards

[Zanshin]

I had a 43DS and a 49DS and now an even bigger DS, all with in-mast furling. The only friction in the system that I've had in the past, particularly on the 43DS which was ex-charter, was from the sailcloth material rubbing on something - either the inside of the mast or the exit slot.
The only times I had significant friction was when I didn't have sufficient back-tension while furling and once when my topping lift setting slipped and my boom angle was very wrong.

[rxc]

I had problems with my mainsail till I straightened out the mast. RF masts must be straight, with no bend whatsoever. Also, this year I noticed that the bearing at the top of the furler was not attached properly. There were several set screws that held the bearing to the foil, and they were loose, allowing the bearing to rattle a bit.


I try to let the boom rise as much as possible when I furl the sail and when I unfurl it. Let the sheet loose, uncleat the vang, and even take up a bit on the boom lift to get the end of the boom in the air. I also try to set/furl the sail with the wind coming slightly on the stbd side, so that the sail does not get hung up on the edge of the mast as it moves into/out of the slot.

I have had a few times when the sail did not want to come out when cranked with the winch, but could be pulled out by hand. I think this is because the car on the boom is too close to the mast. Lifting the boom helps with this problem.

My sails are 10 years old, and are losing their shape, so I will be looking at new ones this winter. My main concern is not the furler, but figuring out how to get to the leechline. It is much higher than I can reach.

[Zanshin]

rxc - I agree about the mast having to be in column but noted that the original post stated that everything was friction-free when the sail was removed.

[cpetku]

I have a 40ds as well and when I bought it the surveyor mentioned the bend in the mast would be a problem. The rigger/sales agent disagreed and so far he has been right (it works with a bend). The mast almost looks like it was setup for racing.

The only issue I have seen is when I first start to furl the sail there are folds in the belly ( 1/6 up from foot, 1/6 back from luff) of the sail. I assume this is from stretching and has only been an appearance issue so far. Originally there was some slack in the main halyard, pulling it taught didn't seem to fix anything.

My agent also recommended placing a bolt in the track about mid-way to prevent the car from coming forward during furling. Sounds like something you are considering. My experience with it at the dock was it caused additional folding in the center of the sail and added very little control.

Much reading indicates if the leach of the sail folds while furling you will have a devil of a time getting it out. Have you seen this type of issue? I've run into it once so far, but the furler didn't jam.

Sorry not to have a solution, just observations on a working 40DS with 8 year old sails.

[ianqv]

Hi Sailbleu

I was talking to a guy in our marina bar the other night (so this really IS "the bloke in the pub said..........")

The sail could be out of shape (as previously mentioned aboved). He reckoned his jammed out once and he had to cut it so he could get in to port!!

On the bright side - what a fab excuse to HAVE to buy new sails for the boat!!!

Regards

Ian

[sailbleu]

Ok first of all , thanks for giving your insights on the matter.
In the mean time i've read so many stories on other boards that it is becomming hard to separate facts from fiction.
One says tighten the halyard , an other tells you to release it
One says to put tension on the main while furling it in , an other tells you.......
One says to lower the boom when furling in , an other .....
And so on.
It is my believe , and also because the guy at the bar has said so , that my main sail is out of shape and therefor disturbing the furlersytem .
And although i myself appreciate ian"s irony on the subject , my wife will not be that pleased when I bring her the good news .
Anyway , I will however investigate how much a recut is priced these days so i can make a proper cost/benifit analysis and decide one way or the other.
Thanks for the brainstorm

Kind regards

[ianqv]

Good luck in breaking the news to the Mrs!!! (don't forget to blame the bloke in the pub!!! - they are always full of fab advice!! lol)

I'm about to sit mine down (the mrs, not the bloke in the pub) to try and explain just how exciting it will be to have a bow thruster!!

Ian

[sailbleu]

Oh but I can tell you , a bowthruster is an exciting somethimg.
If you can convince her , be sure to go for type that is man enough to do the job.
Mine is a bit on the short side , but never the less still very valuable .
Have it placed or place it yourself as far in front as possible.
But I'm sure you 're aware of that.

Regards

[ianqv]

I wsn't aware of that.... but it seems logical now you have said it!!

I have an S/O 37 - what hp thruster would you say would do the job well?

Cheers

Ian

[cpetku]

Ive been debating on a Bow thruster while I learn to dock in wind with full canvas up

Do you have an inside pic of your bow thruster? I'm wondering if its in the stotage area in front of the forward water tank or the one in front of that?

Anchor - storage - storage - water tank - cabin

[sailbleu]

After receiving a PM of a fellow poster concerning inmast furling problems I thought it was best to share my findings with the whole community.
My boat is on the hard and the mast taken off.
I had a good opportunity to check the furling system in all it's aspects , and it is my believe - infact I'm absolutely sure - that the mainsail is a goner.
The way I see it I have two possibilities , or have the main recut and keep an old sail , or buy a new one .
I will probably go for the last option.
After I posted my problem in August I experimented with all thefeatures that have an impact on the furling facilities like halyard , sheet , prebend and so on , I was able to downsize the difficulties a bit but the problem never went away completely.
After checking the inside of my mast I couldn't find anything wrong , therefor it has to be the shape of the mainsail.
Just that you know.

Regards

[Donrob]

Thanks,
Do let us know if that was it once you cut or change the sail

[sailbleu]

Oh , after picking up this topic because of a PM I noticed some fellow posters asked me some question a while ago concerning my bowthruster. I'll take some pics and data the comming days and will post ,...be it off topic and rather late.

Donrob , I'll let you know . I suppose that's juni at the earliest , hope to be on my way heading Sardinia by then.

Regards

[jg]

I have a 2000 40DS and have encountered the same problem. I have removed the inner fuller and sent it to Z Spar to be reconditioned, have changed the in haul and out haul lines, the angle of the boom, etc, and 2 years ago had Kappa Sails in Westbrook, CT make me a lovely new furling mainsail, but the real problem seems to be an overlap that occurs on the furling drum as the sail is being unfurled. I've attached a block to a lashing on the rigid boomvang and lead the line from the furling drum through that so that the angle now prevents the override and there is enough slack to permit the inhaul to move up the drum. It has worked very well. I called Z Spar and they had no objection to that setup. It doesn't seem to stress the vang. Hope that helps.

[ladauphine]

We started having mainsail furler sticking problems after about two years of owning our 2006 42 DS. The stock sail is made out of light material and after two seasons lost its shape to the point where the sail would jam constantly. Our sail maker checked the mast bend and internal gears, etc and basically told us he wouldn't recut the sail since we needed a flater heavier weight sail. So we bite the bullet and bought a new one. It's slightly smaller but performs better since it holds it shape and now doesn't jam. We can also carry the full sail in higher winds ranges and have eliminated the rounding problem. Last year we also installed a bow thruster. We went with one that was slightly more pwerful and glad we did. My wife and I sail mostly alone and we can dock the boat quite easily, especially in cross winds. No shouting and my wife is happy.

[windspeak]

had the main jam on me a few times it is a well used sail it did this around the top quarter of the mast managed to free it by just rolling the jam back in and giving the leach a good yank downward whilst keeping some tension on the out-haul i think conditions when reefing may add to the problem as its less of a problem if i furl in light conditions and can keep the tension under control as it goes in I also have a smaller cut main (about 14" off the leach) with three small collapsible horizontal batons giving a straighter leach this sail has not jammed yet and balances the boat very well as i find the full main needs to reef early to relieve heal and weather helm

[super g]

One tip is to tie the boom car to the end of the boom with a couple of foot of string. It gives a better angle and 2:1 purchase. Something sacrificial is best in case you need to reef and forget to undo the car, the string will just snap (or cut it).
Second tip is to make sure the furling cassette is well serviced and running freely. I find that any friction will mean the foil is pulled by the outhaul to the back of the slot and tend to jam the sail.

When i bough my boat even the riggers couldn't extract the sail, it now works okay but needs the cassette servicing regularly. I also find dry and still weather makes things difficult - pretty rare.

[Donrob]

Dec 4, 2012 6:42:40 GMT sailbleu said:

After receiving a PM of a fellow poster concerning inmast furling problems I thought it was best to share my findings with the whole community.
My boat is on the hard and the mast taken off.
I had a good opportunity to check the furling system in all it's aspects , and it is my believe - infact I'm absolutely sure - that the mainsail is a goner.
The way I see it I have two possibilities , or have the main recut and keep an old sail , or buy a new one .
I will probably go for the last option.
After I posted my problem in August I experimented with all thefeatures that have an impact on the furling facilities like halyard , sheet , prebend and so on , I was able to downsize the difficulties a bit but the problem never went away completely.
After checking the inside of my mast I couldn't find anything wrong , therefor it has to be the shape of the mainsail.
Just that you know.

Regards

Hi Sailbleu

Had you resolved the above problem? I had a very hard time unfurling the main last summer and the problem seems to have gotten progressively worse till the end of summer. I really do not wish to have to go through this again this coming season.

Can anybody recommend a good roller furling main sail for a SO 43 DS?

Thank you!

[sailbleu]

Hi Donrob ,

I haven't cleared the problem yet.
Well , I know what causes it , the mainsail is definitly out of shape , but in 2012 I already found a way to bypass the problem a bit by manually helping the sail out of the mast. Once you have 1,5 meter out the unfurling runs smooth.It's a bit of a system you see , pulling the sail on the right spot a few times and bingo.
But of course that was only to get by , and last year - next to alot of anchoring - we didn't sail that much .
The plan however is to buy a new sail in april to get ready for our scheduled big trip starting in may.

So, no , it's not resolved yet , and yes , it will be in april.

Regards


EDIT:
I intend to buy at Lee Sails in China , mailed them last year.
www.leesails.com/
Doesn't harm to check them out no ?
It seems they offer good quality at low prices ,atleast that's what I heard
( but sssssssst , dont tell European sailmakers , they get nerveous by only hearing the word ' China ' )

[Donrob]

Thank you Sailbleu. Yes I did hear that you can get good price/quality ratio for new sails from Hong Kong (sails are actually manufactured in China) and I will certainly consider that.

[ubuysa]

We have in-mast furling on our SO45.1, over the years I've discovered two tips that have helped us.

1. When you furl the sail it's important that it goes in as flat and square as possible, otherwise you'll get creases in the sail - especially if it's old and soft - and these jam in the slot when unfurling. I unfurled my main in the marina on a calm day and experimented with the angle of the boom to get the foot and the leech equally taught, that's the angle the boom wants to be at when you furl, I marked the topping lift at the clutch so I can put the boom there again at any time.

2. The sail tends to unroll inside the mast no matter how tightly you furl it. When you come to unfurl it the loosely rolled sail pinches in the slot. The easiest way to solve this problem is to wind the sail tight in the mast just before you unfurl it. So I put the furling line on a winch with the outhaul locked and winch it tight (not too tight though obviously!) the sail then unfurls without pinching.

[sailbleu]

It is my believe that with a new sail you don't need all these tricks ,but when you get an excess of material (sail) the problem occurs.
At the start it's possible to work around the problem by taking into account all the small things you mentioned , but gradually they don't help you out anymore.
Eventually it all comes down to if or/and when you decide to get an new sail.

Regards